The Benitez Thread

[zolayes 14,489]

Im well aware of that, but this isn't 1994. Should we resign Dennis Wise and stick him in the pivot while were at it?

you made a smart ass remark about an ex manager of ours who contributed greatly to the success we have had ,,,LEARN a little of our history before you poke fun of our ex players you obviously know little about

[MetsajCFC 1,255]

chelsea under rdm played 12 points 24

chelsea right now played 23 points 45

so, chelsea under FSW played 11 points 21

simple mathematics shows that chelsea were better or at the least as good or bad under rdm than we are under FSW..

Rafa came mid-season, stats show nothing, can blame it on the thin squad, and add RDM exhausting the players, under him there was only one starting XI, it will take its toll

[MetsajCFC 1,255]

you made a smart ass remark about an ex manager of ours who contributed greatly to the success we have had ,,,LEARN a little of our history before you poke fun of our ex players you obviously know little about

That's the thing, get out of the history mindset, we are all very thankful to Zolas and Wises and Drogbas and Lampards and whoever but the club must function now and in the present,future. It's time to move on

[Tomo 21,733]

you made a smart ass remark about an ex manager of ours who contributed greatly to the success we have had ,,,LEARN a little of our history before you poke fun of our ex players you obviously know little about

Smart ass remark? jesus christ.

So it's ok for you to slagg off our owner but not ok for me to merely point out that i don't think an ex manager would do better now than our current one? ok then.

[zolayes 14,489]

Smart ass remark? jesus christ.

So it's ok for you to slagg off our owner but not ok for me to merely point out that i don't think an ex manager would do better now than our current one? ok then.

stop trying to defend the indefensible ...and YES I would rather have Hoddle now than Benitez.

[Tomo 21,733]

stop trying to defend the indefensible

Which is?

[zolayes 14,489]

Which is?

your cheap insult BUT you wont understand that

[Tomo 21,733]

your cheap insult BUT you wont understand that

[Peace. 4,352]

So, I saw some comments suggesting that Persona-Non-Grata-N°1 (or number two ?) isn't to blame since it isn't his fault if the bench is thin, because he has no control over transfers (thanks God for that, giving that kind of control to a stopgap would be stupid) and because some millionaires are way below the level they're supposed to play to.

Well... Isn't that a hypocrite thing to say ? Yes, that is.

Let's make a little analogy. Mr. X buys the brand new car which is meant to be the fastest around, in order to take part in a car race. Mr. X has splashed out an aweful lot of money to purchase this car ; a car way more expensive than any others. Yet, does that mean that Mr. X will win the race hands down, because he does has the best car around ? NO ! If that man does appear to not be able to fully master the car or/and isn't good enough to drive it, then, the car's potential will be wasted and that car will look like a wack one.

Know what I mean ? The same thing does apply to our current situation. We have a squad compound of expensive players - a squad short in number, but an expensive squad nonetheless. A footballer isn't an “aim” but a “ means” . It's a “tool” to attain an “aim“. Just as military chiefs use soldiers to win some war, coaches use players to win a football game. Since football players are tools, they need someone to use them, to lead them. In some way, just as soldiers won't win the war in which they're involved into if there's not someone to determine some strategy, players will not get anywhere if there is not someone to tell them which tactics to adopt ; and just as the car will not move if there isn't any driver in it, the players will not put in great performances if there is not someone to show them the way. Especially young players, like we do have (Hazard, Oscar, Moses, Marin, Bertrand, Azpilicueta).

Furthermore, there's a big difference between 11 players and a team. The eleven players are eleven individualities (obviously...) and a team is eleven individualities playing as a whole. It needs something to turn eleven players into a sole unity - a link. And in most of cases, that link is - a priori - the coach. There's not many teams that would be able to fully perform without someone to tell 'em how. And these aberration are due to specific circumstances : a coach has perfectly shapped 'em into a sole entity, and/or they've played a long time together and thus are on the same page, and/or they've been inculcated the same philosphy... Chelsea post-Mourinho springs to mind. We were - at that time - able to play without any coaching intervention because Mourinho build a great team, because players were all shapped into a team by the same person and all played together for a long time.

And I'd like to add that the level of the coach (as for the driver or the military chief...) doesn't really matter. What the matter is all about, it's the feeling - the feeling between the coach and the set of players at his disposal. You can have the best coach around, and the best players as well, if they aren't on the same wavelength (the coach towards the players ; the players toward the coach), it will not work. If the manager does not know how to use his “tools”, he will not make the team performe, no matter how good he is.

Finally, in order things work out, the coach has to be legitimate into his players' eyes. Indeed, he must be able to rally them under the same credo. He must inspire them. He has to show them that he is the right man. If they does not have confidence into him and his abilities, then it'll be a failure.

The bottom line is that you cannot close your eyes on what Persona-Non-Grata-N°1 is producing, while putting the fault onto the players and/or the board. Yes, the players aren't performing at the level they should ; yes the board does have a major part in our failure. Although, yes, the spaniard is actually also at fault for our underachievement. Because yes, he hasn't managed to federate its players, he has failed to get the best out of 'em.

It's just as when you transplant an organ into someone : sometimes, the body does reject the foreign organ. The connection does not click between the iterim manager and the players, the connection does not click between the interim manager and the fan base - the connection does not click between the interim manager and the club. The transplantation has failed.

[Rmpr 8,977]

So, I saw some comments suggesting that Persona-Non-Grata-N°1 (or number two ?) isn't to blame since it isn't his fault if the bench is thin, because he has no control over transfers (thanks God for that, giving that kind of control to a stopgap would be stupid) and because some millionaires are way below the level they're supposed to play to.

Well... Isn't that a hypocrite thing to say ? Yes, that is.

Let's make a little analogy. Mr. X buys the brand new car which is meant to be the fastest around, in order to take part in a car race. Mr. X has splashed out an aweful lot of money to purchase this car ; a car way more expensive than any others. Yet, does that mean that Mr. X will win the race hands down, because he does has the best car around ? NO ! If that man does appear to not be able to fully master the car or/and isn't good enough to drive it, then, the car's potential will be wasted and that car will look like a wack one.

Know what I mean ? The same thing does apply to our current situation. We have a squad compound of expensive players - a squad short in number, but an expensive squad nonetheless. A footballer isn't an aim but a means . It's a tool to attain an aim. Just as military chiefs use soldiers to win some war, coaches use players to win a football game. Since football players are tools, they need someone to use them, to lead them. In some way, just as soldiers won't win the war in which they're involved into if there's not someone to determine some strategy, players will not get anywhere if there is not someone to tell them which tactics to adopt ; and just as the car will not move if there isn't any driver in it, the players will not put in great performances if there is not someone to show them the way. Especially young players, like we do have (Hazard, Oscar, Moses, Marin, Bertrand, Azpilicueta).

Furthermore, there's a big difference between 11 players and a team. The eleven players are eleven individualities (obviously...) and a team is eleven individualities playing as a whole. It needs something to turn eleven players into a sole unity - a link. And in most of cases, that link is - a priori - the coach. There's not many teams that would be able to fully perform without someone to tell 'em how. And these aberration are due to specific circumstances : a coach has perfectly shapped 'em into a sole entity, and/or they've played a long time together and thus are on the same page, and/or they've been inculcated the same philosphy... Chelsea post-Mourinho springs to mind. We were - at that time - able to play without any coaching intervention because Mourinho build a great team, because players were all shapped into a team by the same person and all played together for a long time.

And I'd like to add that the level of the coach (as for the driver or the military chief...) doesn't really matter. What the matter is all about, it's the feeling - the feeling between the coach and the set of players at his disposal. You can have the best coach around, and the best players as well, if they aren't on the same wavelength (the coach towards the players ; the players toward the coach), it will not work. If the manager does not know how to use his tools, he will not make the team performe, no matter how good he is.

Finally, in order things work out, the coach has to be legitimate into his players' eyes. Indeed, he must be able to rally them under the same credo. He must inspire them. He has to show them that he is the right man. If they does not have confidence into him and his abilities, then it'll be a failure.

The bottom line is that you cannot close your eyes on what Persona-Non-Grata-N°1 is producing, while putting the fault onto the players and/or the board. Yes, the players aren't performing at the level they should ; yes the board does have a major part in our failure. Although, yes, the spaniard is actually also at fault for our underachievement. Because yes, he hasn't managed to federate its players, he has failed to get the best out of 'em.

It's just as when you transplant an organ into someone : sometimes, the body does reject the foreign organ. The connection does not click between the iterim manager and the players, the connection does not click between the interim manager and the fan base - the connection does not click between the interim manager and the club. The transplantation has failed.

WOW, one of the best posts I have read on TC.

Clear, excellent points and not too long!

[didierforever 7,349]

Rafa came mid-season, stats show nothing, can blame it on the thin squad, and add RDM exhausting the players, under him there was only one starting XI, it will take its toll

can blame it on the thin squad... so tell me how many players did rdm take with him when he left??? or wait they both had the same squad infact FSW has had a much better one because he has a bloody striker... tell me the kind of starting xis FSW has used? torres-mata-hazard-moses had started all the matches that i could think of when they were available... also tell me when did rdm take in charge of chelsea? and please also tell me what he accomplished with his 2nd match as a manager at chelsea... rdm got a 4-1 win in cl against napoli...

[Kojo 4,676]

So, I saw some comments suggesting that Persona-Non-Grata-N°1 (or number two ?) isn't to blame since it isn't his fault if the bench is thin, because he has no control over transfers (thanks God for that, giving that kind of control to a stopgap would be stupid) and because some millionaires are way below the level they're supposed to play to.

Well... Isn't that a hypocrite thing to say ? Yes, that is.

Let's make a little analogy. Mr. X buys the brand new car which is meant to be the fastest around, in order to take part in a car race. Mr. X has splashed out an aweful lot of money to purchase this car ; a car way more expensive than any others. Yet, does that mean that Mr. X will win the race hands down, because he does has the best car around ? NO ! If that man does appear to not be able to fully master the car or/and isn't good enough to drive it, then, the car's potential will be wasted and that car will look like a wack one.

Know what I mean ? The same thing does apply to our current situation. We have a squad compound of expensive players - a squad short in number, but an expensive squad nonetheless. A footballer isn't an “aim” but a “ means” . It's a “tool” to attain an “aim“. Just as military chiefs use soldiers to win some war, coaches use players to win a football game. Since football players are tools, they need someone to use them, to lead them. In some way, just as soldiers won't win the war in which they're involved into if there's not someone to determine some strategy, players will not get anywhere if there is not someone to tell them which tactics to adopt ; and just as the car will not move if there isn't any driver in it, the players will not put in great performances if there is not someone to show them the way. Especially young players, like we do have (Hazard, Oscar, Moses, Marin, Bertrand, Azpilicueta).

Furthermore, there's a big difference between 11 players and a team. The eleven players are eleven individualities (obviously...) and a team is eleven individualities playing as a whole. It needs something to turn eleven players into a sole unity - a link. And in most of cases, that link is - a priori - the coach. There's not many teams that would be able to fully perform without someone to tell 'em how. And these aberration are due to specific circumstances : a coach has perfectly shapped 'em into a sole entity, and/or they've played a long time together and thus are on the same page, and/or they've been inculcated the same philosphy... Chelsea post-Mourinho springs to mind. We were - at that time - able to play without any coaching intervention because Mourinho build a great team, because players were all shapped into a team by the same person and all played together for a long time.

And I'd like to add that the level of the coach (as for the driver or the military chief...) doesn't really matter. What the matter is all about, it's the feeling - the feeling between the coach and the set of players at his disposal. You can have the best coach around, and the best players as well, if they aren't on the same wavelength (the coach towards the players ; the players toward the coach), it will not work. If the manager does not know how to use his “tools”, he will not make the team performe, no matter how good he is.

Finally, in order things work out, the coach has to be legitimate into his players' eyes. Indeed, he must be able to rally them under the same credo. He must inspire them. He has to show them that he is the right man. If they does not have confidence into him and his abilities, then it'll be a failure.

The bottom line is that you cannot close your eyes on what Persona-Non-Grata-N°1 is producing, while putting the fault onto the players and/or the board. Yes, the players aren't performing at the level they should ; yes the board does have a major part in our failure. Although, yes, the spaniard is actually also at fault for our underachievement. Because yes, he hasn't managed to federate its players, he has failed to get the best out of 'em.

It's just as when you transplant an organ into someone : sometimes, the body does reject the foreign organ. The connection does not click between the iterim manager and the players, the connection does not click between the interim manager and the fan base - the connection does not click between the interim manager and the club. The transplantation has failed.

I don't think Rafa is even respected by the players, Di Matteo was massively respected and he was a such a good character. But Di Matteo got so much wrong, and his huge problem was not being logical enough.

We won the Champions League down to so much faith and belief, we had such a weak team who couldn't produce any creativity or have any flair to show off, the only spark was Mata and he wasn't doing so good come the end of the season. But we gambled and gambled and it kept paying off, due to the massive belief (AVB getting kicked out and Robbie taking over i think). We definitely had a lot of luck down the road, had Messi and Robben scored there penalties, could've been a different story easily.

Then Roberto went out into the next season and it was a different game, it wasn't about holding out till the end of the season anymore, it wasn't about this is our last chance we have to take it. This time it was a new road and starting a new team, and Di Matteo wasn't logical about it. We just bought number 10's and one right back, when we clearly needed a lot more defensive cover, he put too much faith into the team because of how well we defended. But not just that, he wasn't logical agianst United or Juventus, he tried to outplay Juventus when they are a better team, he played through the middle against United despite United scoring most of there goals from wide counter attacks. And that resulted us from conceding 2 goals in 10 minutes due to two crossing counter attacks.

Now I'll get to FSW, Benitez hasn't proved anything at Chelsea besides being a tosser to us in his liverpool days. When AVB got kicked out it benefited us with Robbie the legend coming in, now that Robbie got kicked out and Rafa came in... It was only obvious it was going to go downhill, Rafa has made some shocking decisions so far which have cost us, we are far too inconsistent. Under Di Matteo we weren't inconsistent, we just had a rough patch (which went on for a bit too long), Benitez can't get the best out of his players, and he never will, how can we even trust the man?. Call me paranoid but i sometimes think he does some of the stuff on purpose, why aren't we signing anymore players? it's just getting stupid now. Torres is clearly playing awful and nothing is getting done about it, I have never seen so much protection for such a shit player in all my life.

But to come to my conclusion, we need the right man, the only man i can think of is Mourinho. However i think getting rid of Benitez and someone iconic coming in who has proved himself before or is known to the players would really have an impact coming into the side. Just like when AVB went and Di Matteo came in, we need someone as you said who can use his 'tools' and actually get some results, and it isn't just about managers, look how vital Wilkins proved to be. We need a clever man and a person or people who can help the players, maybe then we can actually see some blue daylight.

[robdog 2,084]

you made a smart ass remark about an ex manager of ours who contributed greatly to the success we have had ,,,LEARN a little of our history before you poke fun of our ex players you obviously know little about

Let me help out here. Wisey was a Captain that everyone loved. Even Mr. Bates loved him. I would like Wisey to take over DoF from Emenalo.

[Hutcho 8,443]

I am pretty sure 80-90 percent of us would have rather had Rdm stay on than rafa. What would have happened... Who knows. But would we be happier... Yes we would be. We would have been a squad that was definitely United. A team that respected and cared about the manager which I am not sure we have at the moment and us lot would all be concentrating on the team than the managerial situation. It is a shame and i personally don't think we would be any worse off at all with Rdm here. Especially after we signed Demba ba as Rdm would know he is the no 1 and work round that accordingly. I definitely miss RDM...

But at least we won't win the prize for most crazy sacking this season... As Southampton win that hands down.

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

Wisey is an absolute icon. Love the bloke.

Shame none of those legends gets a place in the club they love more than all of our current board members combined. Part of becoming a massive club is honouring your legends by giving them a job at club after retirement. There are many examples, Bayern being the most representative.

Then there is another aspect and advantage. When a new player comes in and sees what Zola or Wisey have done for the club and how much appreciated they are of course it affects his thinking. Huge difference compared to seeing Ron Gourlay or Michael Emenalo who are football anonymous.

[Tomo 21,733]

Wisey is an absolute icon. Love the bloke.

Shame none of those legends gets a place in the club they love more than all of our current board members combined. Part of becoming a massive club is honouring your legends by giving them a job at club after retirement. There are many examples, Bayern being the most representative.

Then there is another aspect and advantage. When a new player comes in and sees what Zola or Wisey have done for the club and how much appreciated they are of course it affects his thinking. Huge difference compared to seeing Ron Gourlay or Michael Emenalo who are football anonymous.

Le Saux is here as an ambassador or atleast he was in the pre season tour in 2011. Is it ok to say that about Le Saux or is that a cheap insult?

[Rmpr 8,977]

I don't think Rafa is even respected by the players, Di Matteo was massively respected and he was a such a good character. But Di Matteo got so much wrong, and his huge problem was not being logical enough.

We won the Champions League down to so much faith and belief, we had such a weak team who couldn't produce any creativity or have any flair to show off, the only spark was Mata and he wasn't doing so good come the end of the season. But we gambled and gambled and it kept paying off, due to the massive belief (AVB getting kicked out and Robbie taking over i think). We definitely had a lot of luck down the road, had Messi and Robben scored there penalties, could've been a different story easily.

Then Roberto went out into the next season and it was a different game, it wasn't about holding out till the end of the season anymore, it wasn't about this is our last chance we have to take it. This time it was a new road and starting a new team, and Di Matteo wasn't logical about it. We just bought number 10's and one right back, when we clearly needed a lot more defensive cover, he put too much faith into the team because of how well we defended. But not just that, he wasn't logical agianst United or Juventus, he tried to outplay Juventus when they are a better team, he played through the middle against United despite United scoring most of there goals from wide counter attacks. And that resulted us from conceding 2 goals in 10 minutes due to two crossing counter attacks.

Now I'll get to FSW, Benitez hasn't proved anything at Chelsea besides being a tosser to us in his liverpool days. When AVB got kicked out it benefited us with Robbie the legend coming in, now that Robbie got kicked out and Rafa came in... It was only obvious it was going to go downhill, Rafa has made some shocking decisions so far which have cost us, we are far too inconsistent. Under Di Matteo we weren't inconsistent, we just had a rough patch (which went on for a bit too long), Benitez can't get the best out of his players, and he never will, how can we even trust the man?. Call me paranoid but i sometimes think he does some of the stuff on purpose, why aren't we signing anymore players? it's just getting stupid now. Torres is clearly playing awful and nothing is getting done about it, I have never seen so much protection for such a shit player in all my life.

But to come to my conclusion, we need the right man, the only man i can think of is Mourinho. However i think getting rid of Benitez and someone iconic coming in who has proved himself before or is known to the players would really have an impact coming into the side. Just like when AVB went and Di Matteo came in, we need someone as you said who can use his 'tools' and actually get some results, and it isn't just about managers, look how vital Wilkins proved to be. We need a clever man and a person or people who can help the players, maybe then we can actually see some blue daylight.

Expect some rage at you, I made that exact same point a week ago and got atracked by the so called "Benitez Protectors"!

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

Le Saux is here as an ambassador or atleast he was in the pre season tour in 2011. Is it ok to say that about Le Saux or is that a cheap insult?

Forgot about him, but that would be an exception rather than the rule. Anyway, his role isnt quite clear but I'm sure hes not on the board. My point wasnt that.