Oscar

[The Mak 4,459]

44 minutes ago, CurlyHairLikeLuiz said:

It's not like he had any previous club history to change his mind, is it?

Who is this even referring to? KDB? He did very well at Bremen and was touted as Lampard's replacement since he was signed.
 

41 minutes ago, CurlyHairLikeLuiz said:

I disagree - I think we're shite at nurturing it.

No, Mourinho is. That was supposed to be his job. He wanted nothing to do with KDB and Lukaku, this is clear to anyone. Mourinho was practically handed Belguim's golden generation of a silver fucking platter, Hazard, KDB, Lukaku, Courtois, and he sold half of it because he just wanted the title ASAP - no long term plan whatsoever. If he did have one, he'd still be here and he wouldn't have been crying about wanting Pogba to add to his title-winning squad. He could've at least TRIED with KDB and Lukaku but he didn't care.

We are where we are now because the board replaced those quality players that Mourinho didn't want with those of poor quality. Not to mention the fact that Mourinho practically threw the entire squad under a bus when he didn't get a Pogba/Stones (and his antics), deflating key players like Costa, Fabregas, Matic, Hazard etc. 

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

29 minutes ago, CurlyHairLikeLuiz said:

I wish people would stop believing this horse shit - KDB wanted out; Mourinho wanted him to stay - and the board let him go.

Not his fault.

 

I wouldn't stay at my workplace either if my manager would write me off from the start. Mourinho said when he came here in 2013 that Oscar is his no. 10 and others have to get used to it. Adapt or bust. That's some way to motivate your other playmakers (Mata & De Bruyne). How was De Bruyne supposed to at least hope for a starting spot when Mourinho had only one thing in mind and saw Oscar as the ultimate no. 10 at that point? 

[Stats 7,060]

1 hour ago, manpe said:

Didn't he get banned?

Was not aware of that. Why did he get banned?

[Amblève. 4,995]

Oscar should be dick-slapped by every single Chelsea fan every time he plays like shit. That performance today... my god.

[Tomo 21,736]

On 25/03/2016 at 10:33 PM, The Mak said:

Haha, come to think of it, remember the arguments around Oscar Vs. Mata? One of the main one's against Mata was that we 'ONLY FINISHED 3RD WITH THE TEAM BUILT AROUND MATA'.

Where will we finish now eh?! 

  

Only just seen that, I could spin that around and say the main argument for Mata was his end product, something he is lacking at United and gets reguarly criticised for by United fans.

In fact look at Willian for example, now he has caught up with Juan in terms of end product is there one single aspect of the game Mata is better than Willy?and in terms of timing it was Willian who replaced Mata in Chelsea? If United wanted a Mata/Willian swap this summer ID tell them were to go. 

For the record I have completely given up on Oscar and I'm praying he either leaves or has a significantly reduced role next season (the only reason i don't say it more often is unlike my opinions re Mata, Begovic for example, what I feel regarding Oscar is quite well covered by everyone else) but just because Jose was wrong about Oscar doesn't mean he was also wrong about Mata, I do find it funny that Hazard/Courtois/Costa/Cesc got completely slated in some cases wrote off for bad spells this season yet Mata who's been average since early 2013 is supposedly the one that got away, KDB is the one that got away, not Mata, not once I have watched him play for United and thought what might have been if we kept him, I've had that emotion for Sturridge, De Bruyne and Lukaku (despite agreeing the sale of the latter has been justified all things considered) at various times but never once for Mata.

[Tomo 21,736]

8 hours ago, The Mak said:

Who is this even referring to? KDB? He did very well at Bremen and was touted as Lampard's replacement since he was signed.
 

No, Mourinho is. That was supposed to be his job. He wanted nothing to do with KDB and Lukaku, this is clear to anyone. Mourinho was practically handed Belguim's golden generation of a silver fucking platter, Hazard, KDB, Lukaku, Courtois, and he sold half of it because he just wanted the title ASAP - no long term plan whatsoever. If he did have one, he'd still be here and he wouldn't have been crying about wanting Pogba to add to his title-winning squad. He could've at least TRIED with KDB and Lukaku but he didn't care.

We are where we are now because the board replaced those quality players that Mourinho didn't want with those of poor quality. Not to mention the fact that Mourinho practically threw the entire squad under a bus when he didn't get a Pogba/Stones (and his antics), deflating key players like Costa, Fabregas, Matic, Hazard etc. 

De Bruyne fair enough but Lukaku made it pretty clear he wanted to be number one and Costa was better (and still is), what should we have abandoned the signing off Costa because in 5 years time he would be winding down at 31 and Lukaku would be 26? What about another 5 years on when Lukaku was 26 and the next up and coming 21 year old was demanding game time? Sell Lukaku beacause again in 5 years he would be 31 and that youngster would be 26? 

I can accept looking to the future to some degree, but theirs looking to the future and becoming obsessed with it, Fergie always had the right idea, despite being a long term manager there was never any 5 year plan bolax, he fixed up a squad equipped to challenge on all fronts there and then and the following summer make appropriate adjustments to go again, yes he gave youth a chance and more chances if they proved themself, but he never relied on players not ready just because they might be world class in five years and he one million percent would have sold Lukaku aswell If he made a play me or sell me demand, just imagine him going into Fergies office and saying that? Sir Alex would have cleared his locker and took him to Goodison himself.

Also the fact that Lukaku father said he will only go Bayern if Lewandowski leaves says all you need to know, I mean, even if they for whatever reason bowed down to that particular demand, would Bayern be expected never to sign any striker's other than squad filers until Romelu declines? After seeing the likes of Cesar and Drogba battle and fight off competition down the years, that attitude will never go well with me.

Also we have a current young striker who has the potential to be as good as Lukaku in Bertrand Traore, and unlike Romelu, this guy seems happy to bide his time and fight for his place.

[Stats 7,060]

2 hours ago, Tomo said:

For the record I have completely given up on Oscar and I'm praying he either leaves or has a significantly reduced role next season (the only reason i don't say it more often is unlike my opinions re Mata, Begovic for example, what I feel regarding Oscar is quite well covered by everyone else) but just because Jose was wrong about Oscar doesn't mean he was also wrong about Mata, I do find it funny that Hazard/Courtois/Costa/Cesc got completely slated in some cases wrote off for bad spells this season yet Mata who's been average since early 2013 is supposedly the one that got away, KDB is the one that got away, not Mata, not once I have watched him play for United and thought what might have been if we kept him, I've had that emotion for Sturridge, De Bruyne and Lukaku (despite agreeing the sale of the latter has been justified all things considered) at various times but never once for Mata.

Mata has been very inconsistent for United but he still produces the odd moment of magic. Just look at his goals last season against Liverpool for instance and while I agree that he has not turned out to be a star player for United, he is regularly deployed out wide for United which is not his position. Oscar reguarly plays in his favoured position and is consistently below-par. Mata played in the no.10 role for us and did 10 times more for us than Oscar ever has. Of course when you are not playing a player in their favoured position consistently, it is likely that you are not going to see regular consistent performances.

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Also the fact that Lukaku father said he will only go Bayern if Lewandowski leaves says all you need to know, I mean, even if they for whatever reason bowed down to that particular demand, would Bayern be expected never to sign any striker's other than squad filers until Romelu declines? After seeing the likes of Cesar and Drogba battle and fight off competition down the years, that attitude will never go well with me.

Also we have a current young striker who has the potential to be as good as Lukaku in Bertrand Traore, and unlike Romelu, this guy seems happy to bide his time and fight for his place.

I think you are reading into that a little too much Tomo. You can look into that as if they are giving respect to one of the best strikers on the planet in Lewa by claiming he can only go there if Lewa leaves. They are probably speaking from Bayern's perspective too. Bayern are not going to fork out over £50/60m for a striker unless Lewa leaves. Bayern do not work like that. They are frugal in their approach and Lukaku knows that Bayern will not be after him if Lewa stays which is prob why his father said that. Rumours have linked Lewa with Real so if that happens then Lukaku to Bayern is possible but right now it is not which is what is father was saying.

Courtois father IIRC also said similar things when Courtois was on loan at Atletico. Was he not saying that Courtois can only return if he is no.1 etc. Both fathers were just looking out for the best interest of their son's. On the pitch as long as a player's attitude is fine is what bothers me tbh. Ibra is arrogant as fuck but he is a world class player so that is why I would take him. Lukaku, no matter what is said about his attitude, scores on the pitch and loves football.

Regarding Traore, him wanting to stay and bide his time to battle for a place can also mean that he falls into oblivion and deteriorates due to a lack of playing time. Can you really say Traore has progressed this season by barely starting. Yeah, he has scored in his limited minutes but he has not got the game time he woudl have expected from the beginning of the season. He turns 21 in September as well.

[Essien19 1,415]

Quite interesting that according to whoscored Oscar was our best Player, they gave him a 8.0.

Second best was Begovic 7.2 and then Baba 7.1.

I watched the match and thought Oscar was poor, but who knows.

Whoscored are doing it for a living, mhh.

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[lucio 5,418]

14 hours ago, The Mak said:

Who is this even referring to? KDB? He did very well at Bremen and was touted as Lampard's replacement since he was signed.
 

No, Mourinho is. That was supposed to be his job. He wanted nothing to do with KDB and Lukaku, this is clear to anyone. Mourinho was practically handed Belguim's golden generation of a silver fucking platter, Hazard, KDB, Lukaku, Courtois, and he sold half of it because he just wanted the title ASAP - no long term plan whatsoever. If he did have one, he'd still be here and he wouldn't have been crying about wanting Pogba to add to his title-winning squad. He could've at least TRIED with KDB and Lukaku but he didn't care.

We are where we are now because the board replaced those quality players that Mourinho didn't want with those of poor quality. Not to mention the fact that Mourinho practically threw the entire squad under a bus when he didn't get a Pogba/Stones (and his antics), deflating key players like Costa, Fabregas, Matic, Hazard etc. 

Yet he still banged on about young horses , eggs and how we wouldn't win it. Such a pathetic man.

[chelseafan26 293]

1 hour ago, Essien19 said:

Quite interesting that according to whoscored Oscar was our best Player, they gave him a 8.0.

Second best was Begovic 7.2 and then Baba 7.1.

I watched the match and thought Oscar was poor, but who knows.

Whoscored are doing it for a living, mhh.

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Jose is the best manager in the world. But for some reason, he thought oscar was better than KDB and mata. 

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Not his biggest hater, but not his biggest fans either. As long as Jose stay around, almost sure Oscar will always be here too. This summer maybe the right time to sell him, if Conte doesn't have a plan for him in his tactic. 

[Essien19 1,415]

Jose is the best manager in the world. But for some reason, he thought oscar was better than KDB and mata. 

Mata isn't cutting it at United, got the big bucks, nicely done, imo.

KdB is a different story.

But people going on again and again about one mistake, other things don't count, no wonder that it's getting more and more quiet in here...

[chelseafan26 293]

15 minutes ago, Essien19 said:

Mata isn't cutting it at United, got the big bucks, nicely done, imo.

KdB is a different story.

But people going on again and again about one mistake, other things don't count, no wonder that it's getting more and more quiet in here...

United is a team that itself is going through an identity crisis. They have lingard and rashford playing as forwards. Their defense changes every week. Even Bastian has shown at United and even Angel di Maria was poor at united. Does not make them poor players. It just makes a team of short team brought players, with no chemistry and identity.

"One mistake". Bertrand, Lukaku, Mata, KDB, Luis. The list goes on and on. And as for this one mistake, it was so bafflingly clear about the sheer difference in class on mata/kdb compared to oscar. When did Jose put in auditions for these players? Oscar was selected as his no.1 no.10 and the Mata/Kdb benched or shifted out wide. 4 good to average months of oscar was good enough for jose to decide to sell them too. Sorry mate, but that "one mistake" is one of the major reasons why we are 10th in the table and why we were 17th in December. 

[Styles 9,790]

Didn't watch the game (thank f**k for that) but not surprised to hear Oscar was shit yet again. That's his default performance.

[Essien19 1,415]

United is a team that itself is going through an identity crisis. They have lingard and rashford playing as forwards. Their defense changes every week. Even Bastian has shown at United and even Angel di Maria was poor at united. Does not make them poor players. . It just makes a team of short team brought players, with no chemistry and identity.

"One mistake". Bertrand, Lukaku, Mata, KDB, Luis. The list goes on and on. And as for this one mistake, it was so bafflingly clear about the sheer difference in class on mata/kdb compared to oscar. When did Jose put in auditions for these players? Oscar was selected as his no.1 no.10 and the Mata/Kdb benched or shifted out wide. 4 good to average months of oscar was good enough for jose to decide to sell them too. Sorry mate, but that "one mistake" is one of the major reasons why we are 10th in the table and why we were 17th in December. 

Di Maria had 11 assists, he started out well, but later faded away.

Mata had a few games, but never was able to produce what Di Maria did.

Surely United have some problems, team looks disjointed, but you'd expect more from a 50 mil star player.

Look at what Mata achieved with Chelsea. It's a joke, imo.

Martial is doing the business, that's how it should be done, imo.

Mata has had 2,5 seasons and more or less he did jack shit for most of the time, flop in my eyes.

He's a nice guy, i get the sentiment.

How is Bertrand playing these days?

His good spell has come to an end, imo.

Nowhere near the level from last season.

Absolutely spot on to let him go, he is a good lad, would have rotten on the bench for all those years.

Clearly deserves better!

Last season Azpi and Iva were really good, could have anyone expected this outcome? I don't think so!

I think Jose didn't want to let go of Luis,

it took a lot of time to get Baba, wasn't his call. Sold an old guy and brought in a young one, that's for the future, that's exactly what a lot guys want.

What about Costa?

Costa or Lukaku, i think it's a close call!

You can criticise Oscar all you want but what about back in the day?

Oscar was playing very well, with hindsight it's always easy to say 'i told you so'.

Kevin wanted to participate in the international tournament, should have better been a loan and these kind of decisions are on the board too.

Why is Guus insisting on playing Oscar?

Two coaches who clearly rate him?!

Why didn't choose to promote Musonda?

Why did whoscored give Oscar a 8.0 against Swansea?

Best Chelsea player?

Are they all that stupid and incompetent?

In my view Oscar was poor, but there has to be more to it, otherwise they wouldn't play him. Maybe we all me included know nothing about footy. [emoji4]

Jose should have fielded Loftus-Cheek more often, Musonda wasn't even selected, that's on him, very difficult to accept these judgement calls.

Something wasn't right!

In the end, the case Kevin de Bruyne should have been handled a lot better, but that's it, overall the big calls are difficult to get right and a lot of them were at least decent, imo.

Jose accepted his failure, didn't sue the club and isn't bad mouthing.

That's what i call a leader and proper Chels'.

[chelseafan26 293]

2 minutes ago, Essien19 said:

Di Maria had 11 assists, he started out well, but later faded away.

Mata had a few games, but never was able to produce what Di Maria did.

Surely United have some problems, team looks disjointed, but you'd expect more from a 50 mil star player.

Look at what Mata achieved with Chelsea. It's a joke, imo.

Martial is doing the business, that's how it should be done, imo.

Mata has had 2,5 seasons and more or less he did jack shit for most of the time, flop in my eyes.

He's a nice guy, i get the sentiment.

How is Bertrand playing these days?

His good spell has come to an end, imo.

Nowhere near the level from last season.

Absolutely spot on to let him go, he is a good lad, would have rotten on the bench for all those years.

Clearly deserves better!

Last season Azpi and Iva were really good, could have anyone expected this outcome? I don't think so!

I think Jose didn't want to let go of Luis,

it took a lot of time to get Baba, wasn't his call. Sold an old guy and brought in a young one, that's for the future, that's exactly what a lot guys want.

What about Costa?

Costa or Lukaku, i think it's a close call!

You can criticise Oscar all you want but what about back in the day?

Oscar was playing very well, with hindsight it's always easy to say 'i told you so'.

Kevin wanted to participate in the international tournament, should have better been a loan and these kind of decisions are on the board too.

Why is Guus insisting on playing Oscar?

Two coaches who clearly rate him?!

Why didn't choose to promote Musonda?

Why did whoscored give Oscar a 8.0 against Swansea?

Best Chelsea player?

Are they all that stupid and incompetent?

In my view Oscar was poor, but there has to be more to it, otherwise they wouldn't play him. Maybe we all me included know nothing about footy.

Jose should have fielded Loftus-Cheek more often, Musonda wasn't even selected, that's on him, very difficult to accept these judgement calls.

Something wasn't right!

In the end, the case Kevin de Bruyne should have been handled a lot better, but that's it, overall the big calls are difficult to get right and a lot of them were at least decent, imo.

Jose accepted his failure, didn't sue the club and isn't bad mouthing.

That's what i call a leader and proper Chels'.

Mata is a flop in your eyes, and yet Maria was good enough? Thats interesting.

Mata has 24 goals and 18 assists in 2.5 years compared to Maria's 4 goals and 12 assists in 1 season. If you extrapolate Maria's 1 season to 2.5 he would have 10 goals and 30 assists. Which are still less than Mata. Mata was a 37million pound buy, Maria was 60 odd if I am not wrong. Please use the same method to judge both players for future references.

Would you take Bertrand over Baba right now? Or over Iva, thus shifting azpi to the right? Bertrand has been quite decent this season too. He has played 27 matches, and helped his team keep 11 clean sheets in them and half of them without their main GK. So while it would make sense to you for selling a club trained, Home grown, good young player for a 29 year old player who was then benched for the season and then sold, and then later have no options for the left back position except for a right back or a 20 year old Baba who was not played inspite IVA being the worst player in PL. Well, you can see why I would have a problem with this.

Before Costa or Lukaku, there was a case of Torres or Lukaku, Ba or Lukaku, even schurrle or Lukaku since schurrle was started ahead of lukaku at OT. And then was the master piece of actually bringing in a 33 year old semi retired striker rather than trust his "young eggs". Sorry, mate. But Lukaku's departure is ONLY on jose. No one else.

So because 2 coaches make the same mistake it makes it right? There are hundreds of fans here and thousands over at SB who think Oscar has stunk the place up. "Whoscored". So now we have to believe everything "Whoscored" says. Well i went to the "Whoscored" page and they had predicted a draw. Guess they get everything wrong on that site. Well, maybe I and others who have been watching football for 30 odd years know ABSOLUTELY nothing. Or maybe just maybe, the managers are gutless who would rather keep playing the "popular" player than give a chance to someone deserving.Jose bet on Oscar. He let 2 technically superior footballers leave for the sake of Oscar. Maybe he did not want to lose face. As for Guss, lesser said the better. Also, there is the question of going into the season with only 4 options in Hazard, Oscar, willian and Pedro. The other 2 were Kenedy and Traore who still, even at this moment cant get starts when we literally have nothing in the world to play for.

Sue the club? Oh dear!!! First of all you need to sort out whom do you support? Chelsea or Jose Mourinho. Jose' failure this season does not just mean a poor PL and trophyless season but it actually means MILLIONS and MILLIONS of losses. If I cost my company one-hundreth of the money that Jose has cost the club, the company wont just fire me but we have given him the respect of a quadruple winning manager. Even at our worst moment, the club and the fans were nothing but completely and totally in support of him. But lets speak the truth now since Jose is gone. He has screwed us not just for the present but for the foreseeable future. We have a defence of a 36 year old, 2 31 year olds. We have sold a no.10 who has the potential to be one of the best players on the planet rather we have a player who somehow achieves to get the highest rating on some arbitary website. We have sold a 22 year old striker, who almost anyone at all associated to football could have said to have the potential to be a brilliant striker. As for "I told you so", I have no way to prove that I never rated Oscar highly or that I never thought the competition between Oscar and Kdb to be even close.

Lastly, lets discuss what a "leader" is. A good leader/good manager is someone who leads his team loyally. Who does not have a one set off rules for a certain set of players while having another set of rules for his "favourties". A good leader does not keep playing his favourites even though we are 17th in the table while giving asenine excuses like "I need 5 tall players". A leader does not go about abusing the team's doctor for doing her Job and losing some respect from the fans as well as players. NO. Jose was a poor leader this season and infact his whole tenure this time. His lies and negativity only hampered us this time.

[Essien19 1,415]

21 minutes ago, chelseafan26 said:

Mata is a flop in your eyes, and yet Maria was good enough? Thats interesting.

Mata has 24 goals and 18 assists in 2.5 years compared to Maria's 4 goals and 12 assists in 1 season. If you extrapolate Maria's 1 season to 2.5 he would have 10 goals and 30 assists. Which are still less than Mata. Mata was a 37million pound buy, Maria was 60 odd if I am not wrong. Please use the same method to judge both players for future references.

Would you take Bertrand over Baba right now? Or over Iva, thus shifting azpi to the right? Bertrand has been quite decent this season too. He has played 27 matches, and helped his team keep 11 clean sheets in them and half of them without their main GK. So while it would make sense to you for selling a club trained, Home grown, good young player for a 29 year old player who was then benched for the season and then sold, and then later have no options for the left back position except for a right back or a 20 year old Baba who was not played inspite IVA being the worst player in PL. Well, you can see why I would have a problem with this.

Before Costa or Lukaku, there was a case of Torres or Lukaku, Ba or Lukaku, even schurrle or Lukaku since schurrle was started ahead of lukaku at OT. And then was the master piece of actually bringing in a 33 year old semi retired striker rather than trust his "young eggs". Sorry, mate. But Lukaku's departure is ONLY on jose. No one else.

So because 2 coaches make the same mistake it makes it right? There are hundreds of fans here and thousands over at SB who think Oscar has stunk the place up. "Whoscored". So now we have to believe everything "Whoscored" says. Well i went to the "Whoscored" page and they had predicted a draw. Guess they get everything wrong on that site. Well, maybe I and others who have been watching football for 30 odd years know ABSOLUTELY nothing. Or maybe just maybe, the managers are gutless who would rather keep playing the "popular" player than give a chance to someone deserving.Jose bet on Oscar. He let 2 technically superior footballers leave for the sake of Oscar. Maybe he did not want to lose face. As for Guss, lesser said the better. Also, there is the question of going into the season with only 4 options in Hazard, Oscar, willian and Pedro. The other 2 were Kenedy and Traore who still, even at this moment cant get starts when we literally have nothing in the world to play for.

Sue the club? Oh dear!!! First of all you need to sort out whom do you support? Chelsea or Jose Mourinho. Jose' failure this season does not just mean a poor PL and trophyless season but it actually means MILLIONS and MILLIONS of losses. If I cost my company one-hundreth of the money that Jose has cost the club, the company wont just fire me but we have given him the respect of a quadruple winning manager. Even at our worst moment, the club and the fans were nothing but completely and totally in support of him. But lets speak the truth now since Jose is gone. He has screwed us not just for the present but for the foreseeable future. We have a defence of a 36 year old, 2 31 year olds. We have sold a no.10 who has the potential to be one of the best players on the planet rather we have a player who somehow achieves to get the highest rating on some arbitary website. We have sold a 22 year old striker, who almost anyone at all associated to football could have said to have the potential to be a brilliant striker. As for "I told you so", I have no way to prove that I never rated Oscar highly or that I never thought the competition between Oscar and Kdb to be even close.

Lastly, lets discuss what a "leader" is. A good leader/good manager is someone who leads his team loyally. Who does not have a one set off rules for a certain set of players while having another set of rules for his "favourties". A good leader does not keep playing his favourites even though we are 17th in the table while giving asenine excuses like "I need 5 tall players". A leader does not go about abusing the team's doctor for doing her Job and losing some respect from the fans as well as players. NO. Jose was a poor leader this season and infact his whole tenure this time. His lies and negativity only hampered us this time.

Nice text mate.
Tapatalk completely screwed me over with the formatting, sorry for the fuck up above!

You're right, i got the number with Mata wrong, it's about 38 mil and not 50.
Yes, your comparison and extrapolation is a job well done.
What i failed to say or rather should have put more effort in, the first few months Di Maria played like a 'Galactico', he lived up to his potential, imo.
Yes, because of the break in and personal problems with Van Gaal's man-management skills it all ended in tears.
Maybe i'm wrong, but i never had the feeling with Mata, who always seemed to me at United as a luxury player.
I've never seen Mata in a red shirt doing what he did best at Chelsea.
Yes, cut him some slack because of the United team, but Di Maria coped a lot better with the pressure.
That's a personal feeling, you put the numbers on the table, agree to disagree.

At that time Jose felt that Lukaku wasn't ready. Lukaku missed the penalty against Bayern Munich.
I think Jose didn't want to guarantee him a place in the starting lineup, there were Torres and Ba, yes, Eto'o coming in, but maybe he came because of Rom's departure,
who knows. Perhaps Jose could have encouraged Rom into staying, i get where you're coming from, mate.
But nowadays we have Costa around, who is comparable, imo.

Again, you're not wrong, Bertrand is playing not bad, but in my point of view not that exceptional like last season.
Back in the day Bertrand wanted to play more, difficult to achieve with a good Ivanovic and Azpilicueta in front of you.
He waited a long time, but about 2.5 years ago it was a good call, imo.
You can't have it both ways, sometimes you have to make the judgement call.
At Chelsea Bertrand was not so good going forward, there was a lot of moaning going on.

Turning to whoscored, predictions are never easy, we all get them wrong, that's why footy is so much fun, totally unpredictable.
Analyzing afterwards are two different pairs of shoes. I take a team of experts seriously, i don't value your or other opinions because of this less, sometimes i disagree with whoscored like i did yesterday, but i take their opinion into consideration, just like others around here.

Oscar is playing shit, but so are others. I think @Gilvorak sometimes exaggerated, but you play footy with 11 men, there is no such thing than only one culprit.
He should be benched, yes, but Guus isn't doing it either, so the question which has to be asked is why?! Maybe because of the lack of balls, but i don't believe it.
But congrats to you for seeing it coming, i for one didn't.
Once Lampard said in the studio that according to him Loftus-Cheek is the only one who is ready to play, so we don't have many alternatives...

We're both on a Chelsea board, not a Jose Mourinho board, so i think that speaks for itself.
Sometimes one has to lose, you can't always win, this season is extreme, but perhaps it's a one off.  You never know.
Because of Jose Terry was back to his best and over two seasons one of the best defenders in the world again.
After this season he's most likely gone, there are still Cahill and Ivanovic, but apart from that? Zouma (21), Azpilicueta (26), Baba (21) who is still here,
guys like Christensen are out on loan and will come back. Jose wanted us to buy Stones, another young gem. Jose put Courtois in goal, a young gun, instead of Cech.
It's not all dark and gloomy, imo.

Now coming to the part 'he screwed us': Kevin is on the right track, big loss. As i said before, we have Costa instead of Rom, is it that bad? Personally speaking i don't think so.
Costa can lead the line for a lot of years, no need to cry because of Lukaku, imo.
Christensen, Baba, Zouma, Loftus-Cheek, Musonda, Kenedy, Traoré and so on, we have a lot of gems who we can nurture, future is bright.

I agree that Jose made mistakes as a leader this season, but i think to say that about the whole 3 years is over the line.
Jose dropped Matic and others, but all in all he trusted too long the same bunch, i have to agree with you.
Assuming that he was lying is too much, not enough insight and knowledge, imo.
At the end Jose threw his team under the bus, betrayal and so on, but before all of that, he protected his team.
The downwards spiral was too difficult to overcome, being that far behind, bringing on the young guys who according to Lamps aren't up for it, is a difficult call to make.
Guus is doing more or the less the same, two different coaches, that's not a coincidence.

[chelseafan26 293]

37 minutes ago, Essien19 said:

Nice text mate.
Tapatalk completely screwed me over with the formatting, sorry for the fuck up above!

You're right, i got the number with Mata wrong, it's about 38 mil and not 50.
Yes, your comparison and extrapolation is a job well done.
What i failed to say or rather should have put more effort in, the first few months Di Maria played like a 'Galactico', he lived up to his potential, imo.
Yes, because of the break in and personal problems with Van Gaal's man-management skills it all ended in tears.
Maybe i'm wrong, but i never had the feeling with Mata, who always seemed to me at United as a luxury player.
I've never seen Mata in a red shirt doing what he did best at Chelsea.
Yes, cut him some slack because of the United team, but Di Maria coped a lot better with the pressure.
That's a personal feeling, you put the numbers on the table, agree to disagree.

At that time Jose felt that Lukaku wasn't ready. Lukaku missed the penalty against Bayern Munich.
I think Jose didn't want to guarantee him a place in the starting lineup, there were Torres and Ba, yes, Eto'o coming in, but maybe he came because of Rom's departure,
who knows. Perhaps Jose could have encouraged Rom into staying, i get where you're coming from, mate.
But nowadays we have Costa around, who is comparable, imo.

Again, you're not wrong, Bertrand is playing not bad, but in my point of view not that exceptional like last season.
Back in the day Bertrand wanted to play more, difficult to achieve with a good Ivanovic and Azpilicueta in front of you.
He waited a long time, but about 2.5 years ago it was a good call, imo.
You can't have it both ways, sometimes you have to make the judgement call.
At Chelsea Bertrand was not so good going forward, there was a lot of moaning going on.

Turning to whoscored, predictions are never easy, we all get them wrong, that's why footy is so much fun, totally unpredictable.
Analyzing afterwards are two different pairs of shoes. I take a team of experts seriously, i don't value your or other opinions because of this less, sometimes i disagree with whoscored like i did yesterday, but i take their opinion into consideration, just like others around here.

Oscar is playing shit, but so are others. I think @Gilvorak sometimes exaggerated, but you play footy with 11 men, there is no such thing than only one culprit.
He should be benched, yes, but Guus isn't doing it either, so the question which has to be asked is why?! Maybe because of the lack of balls, but i don't believe it.
But congrats to you for seeing it coming, i for one didn't.
Once Lampard said in the studio that according to him Loftus-Cheek is the only one who is ready to play, so we don't have many alternatives...

We're both on a Chelsea board, not a Jose Mourinho board, so i think that speaks for itself.
Sometimes one has to lose, you can't always win, this season is extreme, but perhaps it's a one off.  You never know.
Because of Jose Terry was back to his best and over two seasons one of the best defenders in the world again.
After this season he's most likely gone, there are still Cahill and Ivanovic, but apart from that? Zouma (21), Azpilicueta (26), Baba (21) who is still here,
guys like Christensen are out on loan and will come back. Jose wanted us to buy Stones, another young gem. Jose put Courtois in goal, a young gun, instead of Cech.
It's not all dark and gloomy, imo.

Now coming to the part 'he screwed us': Kevin is on the right track, big loss. As i said before, we have Costa instead of Rom, is it that bad? Personally speaking i don't think so.
Costa can lead the line for a lot of years, no need to cry because of Lukaku, imo.
Christensen, Baba, Zouma, Loftus-Cheek, Musonda, Kenedy, Traoré and so on, we have a lot of gems who we can nurture, future is bright.

I agree that Jose made mistakes as a leader this season, but i think to say that about the whole 3 years is over the line.
Jose dropped Matic and others, but all in all he trusted too long the same bunch, i have to agree with you.
Assuming that he was lying is too much, not enough insight and knowledge, imo.
At the end Jose threw his team under the bus, betrayal and so on, but before all of that, he protected his team.
The downwards spiral was too difficult to overcome, being that far behind, bringing on the young guys who according to Lamps aren't up for it, is a difficult call to make.
Guus is doing more or the less the same, two different coaches, that's not a coincidence.

Lets start with the most obvious. Costa instead of Lukaku is a brilliant deal. BUT. Do we have enough cover to even say things like "instead". Our backup strikers are Remy, falcao (on loan), Pato (on loan) and Traore. Sorry, but its criminal to not have a PL proven 21 year old world class potential on your roster when you have the chance. Remember Gudjohnsen-DD, DD-anelka. A club of chelsea's stature needs a minimum of 2 great strikers. heights of mis-management by Jose.

 How many penalties has Lampard missed in his days. Beckham? Messi misses penalties almost every other weekend. If jose's analyses of lukaku was made because of his penalty miss, I am so happy he is gone. As for etoo, Etoo came in and Lukaku went. Not the other way round. Before the start of the season, Jose kept saying about "young eggs" and "we wont win the trophy" and yet thought it good enough to bring in Etoo and start torres ahead of Lukaku. Like I said before, Lukaku's departure was only because of Jose's mistake. You are blaming LVG for Maria's mis-man-management and yet Jose cost us Lukaku, Mata, Kdb, Bertrand because of his mega-mis-man-management.

As for Mata, LVG's mis-man-management can be applied to Mata too. Maria played like a "Galactico" for a month. He was downright atrocious for the rest of the season. He was sold for 44 million pounds, a loss of 15 million pounds in a year. That itself should be indicative of his season at united.

Players like bertrand are a MUST keep. United had a squad of wes browns, John o sheas. Perfect squad players. Bertrand could have been one too. Unfortunately, Jose man-management and rotation in this tenure was abysmal. We had a 33 year old cole, who was definitely on his way out, yet cole was somehow kept at the club while Bertrand was loaned out to Villa. Bertrand played a total of 244 minutes under Mourinho. I dont think his problem was being a starter but lack of trust and play time. 244 minutes in 5 months despite his only competition being a 33 year old cole, who was poor (to say the least) whenever he took field. How you can judge Ryan's offensive play when he barely got any oppurtunity is beyond me.

Any team in the world needs 7 or 8 defenders over the course of a season. We currently have 6 which includes a 36 year old JT and a 21 year old Baba who Jose did not trust to tie his own shoes. Who is to blame for it? Why was Luis sold? People say "Luis wanted to leave". Who cares? De gea wanted to leave too. But sometimes you have to do whats best for the clubs. Put a price tag on luis that would be unbelievable. If Jose's solution to enhance a PL winning squad is to buy a 50million rated player then sorry, he can be replaced with RAFA BENITEZ and it wont matter.

Christensen did not become a good footballer overnight, did he? Where was Jose and his 10 minute technique to judge a youngster? Why did not Christensen get his chances at chelsea? All massive cases of mis-management. 

Do you really believe Musonda is not ready? Christensen, Ake are not ready? Do you really think if RLC had played instead of Oscar since the start of the season, we would have been any wprse. I honestly think we would have been in a much better position. And finally we come to Oscar. I dont know who and what Gilvorak is, but its the second reference to him on this thread in the past one page. Jose played Oscar and Guss is playing Oscar, and we are 10th in the league. Guss is playing Oscar because he thinks he does not have any "options". Infact, Gutless Gus needed injuries to hazard, matic, JT, zouma, willian and a suspension to Costa to give chance to youth like traore and kenedy despite us not having to play for anything. If hazard was fit right now, he would still be "playing" or rather standing on the pitch doing jack shit. So yes, Jose made mistakes and Gus is simply repeating them. Thats not a co-incidence, just Stupidity.