🇧🇷 Oscar

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Mata sympathisers trying to cover up Juan's little spat by making a bigger deal than is necessary over Oscar's dive. He's been told off for it, now time to move on.

I agree that we should move on because this has been blown way out of proportion by the media especially that little is said of the likes of Januzaj and the rest of the united divers, but saying that the exaggeration is some sort conspiracy by Mata sympathizers? Come on, let's be real here.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

But the funny thing is Mourinho said nothing of Mata's reaction and that he celebrated and was happy with the team after the game and yet people have been making a meal out of it since then...

Well José is bound to say that, isn't he!

[The only place to be 11,313]

But the funny thing is Mourinho said nothing of Mata's reaction and that he celebrated and was happy with the team after the game and yet people have been making a meal out of it since then...

What is the alternative that he could say in the REAL WORLD? Any slight against him reduces his transfer price. The same goes for the comments about wanting to sell him, since suggesting you don't want to sell something can increase it's price.

[Jase 43,479]

Well José is bound to say that, isn't he!

What is the alternative that he could say in the REAL WORLD? Any slight against him reduces his transfer price. The same goes for the comments about wanting to sell him, since suggesting you don't want to sell something can increase it's price.

The point is, people are selective in choosing the comments Mourinho made to dismiss a debate whenever they see fit to suit their own 'issue'..

[BlueLion. 21,491]

The point is, people are selective in choosing the comments Mourinho made to dismiss a debate whenever they see fit to suit their own 'issue'..

But José isn't going to come out and say "Juan acted like a cunt", is he? The only reason he slammed Oscar for diving was to save face after his tirade aimed at Suarez on Sunday.

[Jase 43,479]

But José isn't going to come out and say "Juan acted like a cunt", is he? The only reason he slammed Oscar for diving was to save face after his tirade aimed at Suarez on Sunday.

Yes but perhaps what Jose is trying to say is true either, that there is no issue at all and it's just Mata being frustrated if anything...and yet, it gets ignored because it didn't fit into this whole narrative of 'how dare he challenge Mourinho's authority?!'.

[remains of the day 564]

What is the alternative that he could say in the REAL WORLD? Any slight against him reduces his transfer price. The same goes for the comments about wanting to sell him, since suggesting you don't want to sell something can increase it's price.

But José isn't going to come out and say "Juan acted like a cunt", is he? The only reason he slammed Oscar for diving was to save face after his tirade aimed at Suarez on Sunday.

Yeah don't know how true both of your comments are. In fact I'll confidently say it's not true, at all. Mourinho didn't have a problem in showing his disapproval when he was asked about Ash attending Arsenal's Christmas party nor did he have a problem in completely telling off Lukaku for his loose tongue with the media and he sure as hell wouldn't hesitate one second in putting Mata in place if he felt Juan was indeed questioning his authority, as you both seem to believe.

When it comes to his players' behaviour, Mourinho is very transparent in his responses. Some might not like it, @The only place to be you yourself were surprised & uncomfortable with the harsh manner he publicly responded to Lukaku, but that's Mourinho, he's real, he's authentic and he says it how it is. He's not one to give cookie cutter, politically correct, diplomatic responses. If he felt Mata's behaviour was out of line and a challenge on his authority, while he won't say "Mata acted like a cunt and for that he'll be locked up in the Cobham dungeons and be forced to look at boobs for the rest of the season" but he'll have absolutely no qualms in letting his disapproval be known.

Re: Oscar's dive, I think TorontoChelsea pretty much said it. My own take is that people generally tend to place far too much focus on the dive itself when the focus needs to be on better (and consistent) officiating and rules in place to penalize players for simulation - if need be, retrospectively. Oscar dove, from Chelsea fan perspective - it was a poor error in judgement, nothing more. It wasn't costly to us and he later went ahead to put in a fantastic performance. From a football fan perspective - the referee was excellent, spotted it and Oscar was rightly punished. Simple as that. Now Iva's dives....that's a far bigger issue to me.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Yeah don't know how true both of your comments are. In fact I'll confidently say it's not true, at all. Mourinho didn't have a problem in showing his disapproval when he was asked about Ash attending Arsenal's Christmas party nor did he have a problem in completely telling off Lukaku for his loose tongue with the media and he sure as hell wouldn't hesitate one second in putting Mata in place if he felt Juan was indeed questioning his authority, as you both seem to believe.

Both very poor examples. Ashley is very much on his way out, Lukaku is a young guy under contract and Mata is potentially as asset we may sell in the future. So, um yeah.

but that's Mourinho, he's real, he's authentic and he says it how it is.

He's also disingenuous, manipulative and not adverse to lying.

[Barbara 15,149]

Yes but perhaps what Jose is trying to say is true either, that there is no issue at all and it's just Mata being frustrated if anything...and yet, it gets ignored because it didn't fit into this whole narrative of 'how dare he challenge Mourinho's authority?!'.

do you honestly believe, Mata, would have been grumpy after Chelsea won an important match? In all honesty, what kind of person do you think he is if he does that?

I agree with @ and @The only place to be because that's how Mourinho handled Kevin's discontentment, Lukaku's not ideal comments, Luiz's supposedly wanting to join Barça and I'm sure other tricky situations that happened since he's come back and that I'm forgetting to say now.

So your idea not only doesn't make sense because I can't see Mata ever being grumpy or crank or even bitter about his team winning an important match no matter how frustrated he was (and he had at least 40 minutes to cool down a bit, which I think he did), but it also doesn't make any sense for José to expose the possible changing room problems he has to the media.

I just posted in Mata thread that I don't think José will allow this to become a problem between him and Mata, but I'm also positive he's had a conversation with Mata about his reaction. Now do you expect him to expose all those things to the media? How would that benefit him or Mata or Chelsea? I'm not even implying said conversation was something like 'you better not behave like that again otherwise there will be consequences', but more like 'I do what I see best for Chelsea and the team, that's my job as the boss here, and sometimes it won't be what you, Oscar, Willian, etc... want, but still that's how I'll act'.

I honestly don't expect anything different from what was said publicly and I think that's how things went privately between him. That if Mourinho didn't take a chance to use the episode and give a message to the whole team and not only Mata. He knows he will upset a few players with his choices because all players want to play, but he can play only 11. I'm sure he's had this convo before, but I suppose little reminders now and then are necessary.

edit: perspective is everything

Only now I saw @remains of the day's post on the matter and the fact she and I have completely different approaches of how Mourinho's managed those situations just show perspective is very subjective.

I didn't follow Ash's episode closely because I don't care, but am I wrong and didn't Mourinho refuse to give an opinion about it, saying there was nothing for him to say? Lukaku said a lot of BS (from Mourinho's perspective at least) until Mourinho finally answered, but he didn't say anything bad about Lukaku, just that as he likes to talk to so much he should tell why he left because he said everything but that. How is that detracting the players?

I'd love to read what's the Mata's version Mourinho could have said that is the equivalent of what he said about Ash and Romelu... because I think he was very diplomatic in all three and he could have said that Ashley didn't have any business going there and that if he misses them so much he can ask to leave, no one is holding him back, or how Lukaku should learn how to speak less and play more and stop saying all sort of bullshit - whether he's baited by media or not. Now this is how I perceive those three situations. He could have been straight about it, he chose to be diplomatic in all three. He's ignored Lukaku's for a while. Romelu had about 3-4 interviews with a few unnecessary words and Mourinho was mum, until he finally addressed it and in a very mild way imo. But well, this is my perception. Now I want to know what's the equivalent of the Mata situation would have been if he thinks Mata did anything wrong. I'll be delighted to learn what that could be because in all honesty I can't imagine.

[Jase 43,479]

do you honestly believe, Mata, would have been grumpy after Chelsea won an important match? In all honesty, what kind of person do you think he is if he does that?

I agree with @ and @The only place to be because that's how Mourinho handled Kevin's discontentment, Lukaku's not ideal comments, Luiz's supposedly wanting to join Barça and I'm sure other tricky situations that happened since he's come back and that I'm forgetting to say now.

So your idea not only doesn't make sense because I can't see Mata ever being grumpy or crank or even bitter about his team winning an important match no matter how frustrated he was (and he had at least 40 minutes to cool down a bit, which I think he did), but it also doesn't make any sense for José to expose the possible changing room problems he has to the media.

I just posted in Mata thread that I don't think José will allow this to become a problem between him and Mata, but I'm also positive he's had a conversation with Mata about his reaction. Now do you expect him to expose all those things to the media? How would that benefit him or Mata or Chelsea? I'm not even implying said conversation was something like 'you better not behave like that again otherwise there will be consequences', but more like 'I do what I see best for Chelsea and the team, that's my job as the boss here, and sometimes it won't be what you, Oscar, Willian, etc... want, but still that's how I'll act'.

I honestly don't expect anything different from what was said publicly and I think that's how things went privately between him. That if Mourinho didn't take a chance to use the episode and give a message to the whole team and not only Mata. He knows he will upset a few players with his choices because all players want to play, but he can play only 11. I'm sure he's had this convo before, but I suppose little reminders now and then are necessary.

You are completely missing the point Barbara. All I said was - in reply to Alex's post the other day - that Mourinho said what he did on the Oscar incident and Alex wanted the discussion to be over because apparently, people were making a meal out of it but yet despite what Mourinho has said about the Mata one, people still go on and on and blow it out of proportion...

[Spike 12,049]

Maybe Oscar isn't even favoured over Mata. Maybe Mata is a 'Mourinho style player'. Maybe the only reason Oscar is picked over Mata is due to form.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Is it true that his contract expires in 2015? Just 1,5 year left then. Its time to start negotiations about contract extention...

[lucio 5,418]

Is it true that his contract expires in 2015? Just 1,5 year left then. Its time to start negotiations about contract extention...

nope. his contract expires 2017

[remains of the day 564]

Both very poor examples. Ashley is very much on his way out, Lukaku is a young guy under contract and Mata is potentially as asset we may sell in the future. So, um yeah.

He's also disingenuous, manipulative and not adverse to lying.

So what you’re saying is that Mourinho felt comfortable with showing his disapproval of Cole’s actions (even if doing so risked adding fuel to media speculation) because Cole (unlike Mata) is not a priced asset and also because he might be leaving next year? Okay, can definitely see where you’re coming from in that. The point about Lukaku, I don’t see how being a youngster on a contract, matters. He’s still an asset – an asset whose contract is expiring in two years, if I’m not mistaken. Kdb is also an asset and that surely didn’t stop Jose from letting it be known (that at one point) he wasn’t working hard enough in training. I think the point I’m making here is that Jose hasn’t shied away from showing his displeasure when a player has stepped out of line or when a player is underperforming. Regardless of whether Mata is a priced asset that the club hopes to cash in on, If Jose truly felt that Mata’s behavior was inappropriate, if he does in fact think that Mata was challenging him then (I think there’s enough evidence from past examples) to assume that he would let his disapproval be known in some way. Even in the minor situation involving Hazard and his lost passport that resulted in Eden missing training, Jose still made it clear that he wasn’t happy with Hazard.

@Barbara Re: your point about perspective being everything.......amen, sista. I think Mourinho is everything but diplomatic (though he could be when he wants to). He doesn’t give standard answers when responding to incidents especially when he’s displeased – and it’s precisely for that reason he tends to make headlines. He often says things that are very raw, some might call it controversial. Of course he's not going to publicly lambaste Cole & Lukaku (these are his players after all) but he still made it clear that he was less than pleased with their actions, would many managers do the same? I don’t think so. When Pellegrini dropped Joe Hart, the reason he gave was because he wanted “rest” him…..when Mouinho was probed on why he dropped Luiz, he straight up said he didn’t like the way Luiz performed against Newcastle. Whatever his motivations are, he's often upfront (publicly) with his feelings. I personally love that about him. So, you’re absolutely right. Perspective is everything…..and more.

[Term-X 7,891]

Maybe Oscar isn't even favoured over Mata. Maybe Mata is a 'Mourinho style player'. Maybe the only reason Oscar is picked over Mata is due to form.

Form won't turn Mata into a player who can do what Oscar does for the team. Mata in the form of his life is still a square peg in a round hole..

Besides.. Oscar, Hazard etc have all had their dips in form this season, yet were still far more suited than Juan.

[dee25 1,044]

Whenever I see Oscar play, it just seems like he plays more like a central midfielder than a no.10 but he really, really impressed me against Soton. His work rate is always excellent but a more underrated aspect of his game is his movement.

He has a great awareness of space. Those balls Hazard played to him - one of which resulted in the penalty dive & the other that resulted in his goal - were fantastic but it wouldn't have been possible if Oscar didn't make the run. None of our other attacking mids, except for Schurrle, make those kind of runs which is a big issue particularly when we have to break down lesser opp. Sure he was coming on as a sub so maybe Mourinho gave him specific instructions to get in behind the centre backs, but he made a very similar run for his goal against Hull in the 1st game of the season, think it was Kevin that played him in.

I think when we're building an attack, he needs to be given more freedom of movement & he needs to be the one receiving the final pass rather than supplying the final pass himself, if that makes any sense. So I really hope to see him work more in tandem with Hazard and see more combination plays between the both of them.

If we had a creative passer in central midfield, someone from deep who could pick out his runs, I think we would see Oscar excel even more.

[Barbara 15,149]

The main thing about Oscar is his versatility to play as an AM in whatever way you want. Some things he does better, others not as much, but I don't think there's one thing he's bad or below par.

He's showed he can be creative and I think it's only a question of sharpening and time. He's the youngest of our midfielders... he has time to sharpen it. He has everything to be the most complete footballer in his generation (not necessarily the best because while he does everything well, I don't think there's one thing he excels).

[Severinb 309]

He has been playing really well. But i just cant get over the assists stats from oscar this season and mata from the last two seasons. I am getting the feeling that oscar and willian they always shoot instead of passing near the box. Both of them are trying to impress the manager too much in my opinion. I am not saying they are not playing well but its been something that is starting to annoy me. The fisrt PL assist from oscar was against southhampton or something like that?! A number 10 in a top 4 side should be able to gove 10-20 PL assist in my opinion!

[Styles 9,790]

He has been playing really well. But i just cant get over the assists stats from oscar this season and mata from the last two seasons. I am getting the feeling that oscar and willian they always shoot instead of passing near the box. Both of them are trying to impress the manager too much in my opinion. I am not saying they are not playing well but its been something that is starting to annoy me. The fisrt PL assist from oscar was against southhampton or something like that?! A number 10 in a top 4 side should be able to gove 10-20 PL assist in my opinion!

It was against Liverpool I think? And you really can't blame our AM for not having many assists considering our striking options.

In any case Oscar does so many good things I will forgive him for not having the best final ball.

[Barbara 15,149]

He has been playing really well. But i just cant get over the assists stats from oscar this season and mata from the last two seasons. I am getting the feeling that oscar and willian they always shoot instead of passing near the box. Both of them are trying to impress the manager too much in my opinion. I am not saying they are not playing well but its been something that is starting to annoy me. The fisrt PL assist from oscar was against southhampton or something like that?! A number 10 in a top 4 side should be able to gove 10-20 PL assist in my opinion!

neither of them shoot enough (especially given how nice their finishing is) and it was a topic of discussion just earlier this week in one of the threads...