Thorgan Hazard

[Hostedenis 556]

I think Thorgan Hazard has already completed its development stage to complete the change of a child of The Academy to become a member of our first team next season.

Thorgan first first was formed in Cobham Training Centre with our at The Academy with our young players, and then, following our policy of developing young players through a policy by loan, Thorgan Hazard is already a reality and has completed a process of regular professional development and he is now a man.

Thorgan never trained in our academy?

During his youth he trained and was formed by Tubeke and RC Lens. He was then also bought by Chelsea when we bought Eden Hazard, at the start of the 12-13 preseason. So he has been Chelsea property for only two and a half seasons now, and the first two of those he trained with and played for Zulte Waregem, and the last half season he has been training and playing with Monchengladbach.

The only times he has trained with Chelsea were short periods in the summer during preseason, usually very short because he trained most of the last three preseasons with the clubs he was loaned to.

It's mental, claiming he's a product of our academy or Cobham

[supporter 3,088]

Thorgan never trained in our academy?

During his youth he trained and was formed by Tubeke and RC Lens. He was then also bought by Chelsea when we bought Eden Hazard, at the start of the 12-13 preseason. So he has been Chelsea property for only two and a half seasons now, and the first two of those he trained with and played for Zulte Waregem, and the last half season he has been training and playing with Monchengladbach.

The only times he has trained with Chelsea were short periods in the summer during preseason, usually very short because he trained most of the last three preseasons with the clubs he was loaned to.

It's mental, claiming he's a product of our academy or Cobham

Maybe, maybe I'm wrong, but I think I saw Thorgan Hazard playing with our U21. I may be proven wrong, but I think if he has been with our young players in the U-21 team.

I believed that he had trained in Cobham Training Centre with our teams of young players at The Academy.

I put a video in which appears Thorgan playing with our team U-21 (but this could be a friendly match). But I looked on the website of Manchester City and they put it was the first date of the league that season ..

If anyone can take away my this doubt ... Thank you very much.

Regards.

http://www.mcfc.co.uk/news/match-reports/archive/2012/august/chelsea-u21s-v-city-eds-17-august

[Hostedenis 556]

I never said he didn't play with our U21's. He did. I just said he can hardly be called a product of our Academy. I said he NEVER trained with our academy but if you want to nitpick, you're right, in the two and a half seasons we've owned him, he has been here for about a week or 5, maybe 8, I don't know exactly. My point being, pretty close to never. Each and every single club of Tubeke, Lens, Zulte and Monchengladbach have shaped Thorgan a lot more than our Academy ever has. In fact, Chelsea has hardly shaped him at all. So you can't really call him a product of our Academy.

What Chelsea has done however, by buying him, was giving him a great opportunity which resulted in Zulte and Borussia loaning him and ultimately to Thorgan becoming a better player.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

Maybe, maybe I'm wrong, but I think I saw Thorgan Hazard playing with our U21. I may be proven wrong, but I think if he has been with our young players in the U-21 team.

I believed that he had trained in Cobham Training Centre with our teams of young players at The Academy.

I put a video in which appears Thorgan playing with our team U-21 (but this could be a friendly match). But I looked on the website of Manchester City and they put it was the first date of the league that season ..

If anyone can take away my this doubt ... Thank you very much.

Regards.

T Hazard played competitively for the 21s right at the start of the 2012/13 season. I watched the game and remember commenting on being impressed by him. He was gone shortly afterward.

[supporter 3,088]

I never said he didn't play with our U21's. He did. I just said he can hardly be called a product of our Academy. I said he NEVER trained with our academy but if you want to nitpick, you're right, in the two and a half seasons we've owned him, he has been here for about a week or 5, maybe 8, I don't know exactly. My point being, pretty close to never. Each and every single club of Tubeke, Lens, Zulte and Monchengladbach have shaped Thorgan a lot more than our Academy ever has. In fact, Chelsea has hardly shaped him at all. So you can't really call him a product of our Academy.

What Chelsea has done however, by buying him, was giving him a great opportunity which resulted in Zulte and Borussia loaning him and ultimately to Thorgan becoming a better player.

Dude, this is not a fight between you and me. If you thought it I replied to you by the debate of the other day, I apologize to you, but I was not thinking about that, I just prentendo continue the theme, for me it is interesting. I'm not fussy and my answer prentendio never be fussy. I pretended not to criticize your comment. Life is too important not to spend all day being a spiteful and angry person. I'm not so. You, for me, are another friend of the forum.

I think a young player (he came to Chelsea with 18 years of age) is when a player which is the result of our policy of young players which is done at The Academy in Cobham Training Centre, whether they are 100% Players the Academy or are very young players signed by its great future.

For me, Courtois, Zouma and also Matic part of our policy of young players. Also Nathan Ake, Ruben Loftus-Cheek are the result of our policy of young players. I hope they all succeed with us.

As far as I'm concerned, I have no problem with you, and hope you will not have any problem with me. Here are all Chelsea fans, and, therefore, friends.

Regards.

[Hostedenis 556]

Dude, this is not a fight between you and me. If you thought it I replied to you by the debate of the other day, I apologize to you, but I was not thinking about that, I just prentendo continue the theme, for me it is interesting. I'm not fussy and my answer prentendio never be fussy. I pretended not to criticize your comment. Life is too important not to spend all day being a spiteful and angry person. I'm not so. You, for me, are another friend of the forum.

I think a young player (he came to Chelsea with 18 years of age) is when a player which is the result of our policy of young players which is done at The Academy in Cobham Training Centre, whether they are 100% Players the Academy or are very young players signed by its great future.

For me, Courtois, Zouma and also Matic part of our policy of young players. Also Nathan Ake, Ruben Loftus-Cheek are the result of our policy of young players. I hope they all succeed with us.

As far as I'm concerned, I have no problem with you, and hope you will not have any problem with me. Here are all Chelsea fans, and, therefore, friends.

Regards.

Of course it's not a fight. I'm not angry or insulting, am I? I never said you annoyed me, and I never tried to annoy you.

Now, back on topic.

I guess we just have different definitions of youth players then, brought up by our Academy. I would never consider Thorgan, and even more so the case of Thibault Courtois, youth products of the academy as Thorgan was molded into the footballer he is by Lens and Tubeke, and even more by Zulte and Borussia. Thibault was molded by the youth academy of Genk, and was made world class in Atleti's academy. Chelsea got him to Atleti, but I would never say Courtois is a youth product of Chelsea. Courtois and Thorgan were 19 when Chelsea bought them, hardly a Chelsea "youth" product. Same goes with Zouma. Young players, yes. But not my definition of youth at the moment Chelsea acquired them.

I would however consider Ake and Loftus Cheek to be Chelsea's youth product, as their were molded by our academy and have been training at Chelsea from a much younger age. Especially Ruben Loftus Cheek, who's been here since he was a little boy, and to a lesser extent Ake, who joined from Feyenoord when he was 15 or 16 I think, can't remember. I would call that youth. They are the club's academy's own youth products.

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. No problem

[supporter 3,088]

Of course it's not a fight. I'm not angry or insulting, am I? I never said you annoyed me, and I never tried to annoy you.

Now, back on topic.

I guess we just have different definitions of youth players then, brought up by our Academy. I would never consider Thorgan, and even more so the case of Thibault Courtois, youth products of the academy as Thorgan was molded into the footballer he is by Lens and Tubeke, and even more by Zulte and Borussia. Thibault was molded by the youth academy of Genk, and was made world class in Atleti's academy. Chelsea got him to Atleti, but I would never say Courtois is a youth product of Chelsea. Courtois and Thorgan were 19 when Chelsea bought them, hardly a Chelsea "youth" product. Same goes with Zouma. Young players, yes. But not my definition of youth at the moment Chelsea acquired them.

I would however consider Ake and Loftus Cheek to be Chelsea's youth product, as their were molded by our academy and have been training at Chelsea from a much younger age. Especially Ruben Loftus Cheek, who's been here since he was a little boy, and to a lesser extent Ake, who joined from Feyenoord when he was 15 or 16 I think, can't remember. I would call that youth. They are the club's academy's own youth products.

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. No problem

Ok, I'm happy because it is solved and there is no problem between you and me.

Yes, it's just a different interpretation of the concept of young players. I agree with that Thorgan, Zouma and Courtois players are not 100% made in our The Academy, they almost came bearing more than 18 years and are more like players we have signed when they were young and not a product of our players young teams.

But I think that in the current football and with such high requirements which have Chelsea is very difficult to have a player like John Terry or Ruben Loftus-Cheek, although I also would be glad to have more players like JT or RLC because they understand better what is Chelsea because they have been since childhood learning step by step which means Chelsea, which is our history and what is our present. This would be ideal. Also would be in this type of player Dominic Solanke, and I think we can also admit Nathan Ake as a player made for us (he came with only 15 years).

I think these players is only possible to find two or perhaps three cases each decade, because it's very complicated. I think Chelsea should assimilate a strategy like the one implanted Johan Cruyff at Barcelona in 1990 for which they seek a type / style similar game in its young players.

Its policy is to sign players who play like Barcelona since 2008 with Guardiola and Spain since 2008, but they have taken some time to define a model of play. We should do the same, choosing a philosophy of play for our team and go for it, provided may be small changes, but form / get young people with the same philosophy.

That is, any guy that comes into our lower categories, between 7 and 14 years, pending develop footballing is liable to be one of our young player 100% if he remains at the club until it becomes a player and a solid and definite basis, usually up to 19 or 20 years. FIFA states that will be one squad that has been from 15 to 21 in a club. But this is a definition as any other face that only serves rights training. I think this is what you mean with your youngster made for us, and I agree that this would be ideal for us. I think Jose needs to establish a philosophy for Chelsea for the long term and not go bringing us this way and that young players with completely different football philosophies, but this is a process that can take several years.

It would be interesting get closer us to that team model, coordinating all coaches / teams in our Academy for them to play ALL the same way as it does the first team, so a player who comes to us with 8 years of age, when he is 16 years old he take eight years playing with the same philosophy that has the first team and he can be a surely an option for the future of our first team. Maybe we should we ask to ourselves: Since we want to play Chelsea just from today until within ten years ?. I hope Jose do this in our Academy, he was in La Masia of FC Barcelona and he perfectly knows that philosophy club.

But in the case of Barcelona, Carles Puyol they signed him when he was 18 years old and after Puyol is a legend of Barcelona. Or Busquets also came with 17 years of age.

I think I would have to talk about three types of young players.

1. Young players made 100% in our Academy (between 7 and 16 years old). which have been formed since they are children who have reached the first team directly from our Academia (or when they had nearly 18 years they have been in a small loan and returned with us).

2. Not trained young players 100% in our Academy but they have played in our categories of young players (from 17 years).

3. Not trained young players 100% in our Academy and to which the club has signed for our first team or given in loans for them to return in the future to our first team (from 18 years)

What I pretended to say is that for many years we tried to have a policy with young players in the second and third category that I have written, with more or less 17 to 20 years of very young players with a great future and Chelsea policy for these players gradually having good results, as in the case of Courtois (he came with 19 years), Matic (though he arrived with 21 years), or Zouma (19 years). I think they step by step are still very important in our starting eleven. And Thorgan Hazard may be another example young player next season as part of our first team. Step by step we we could be completing our team with these players, plus 100% of our players Academy (Ruben Loftus-Cheek is a diamond that certainly was added to our starting eleven soon, he is different) and add to these young players the signings of fantastic players.

I think it's important not choose only one type of signings, I think we have to blend into our first team: 100% young players trained at our academy (John Terry, Ruben Loftus-Cheek) Young talented but whose signings have been made when they were very young and have been trained in our Academy or loan or in our first team (Courtois, Thorgan Hazard, Zouma), also football stars whose signing has a higher price (Oscar and Eden Hazard) and stars of world football as Fabregas, Didier Drogba and Diego Costa. I think the most important is to have balance between different types of players because if we only focus on or just young or single stars of world football players already established we can arruirnar our team, either by too much youth in our first team players or excess of stars of world football already established that we could not pay for Financial Fair Play rules.

So I wrote that I believed that Chelsea will sell in the market next summer to Mohamed Salah, André Schürrle, Ramires or Loic Remy and now I add Obi Mikel as players will be sold by us next summer to fulfill Financial Fair Play and be able to sign big stars of consolidated football and for that, we will make our first team with players like Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Nathan Ake or Thorgan Hazard.

This is what I wanted to say with my first message yesterday.

I am very glad because we have arranged this little discussion. I do not want to have problems with anyone, only talk of Chelsea with other friends / supporters of Chelsea. Problem clarified.

Regards.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Yes, please

[Jase 43,479]

Jose Mourinho ponders Thorgan Hazard's Chelsea future

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Even if it's just for one cup game, Hazard and Hazard on the wings would be wonderful.

[Hamilton 2,120]

Sprting director Max Eberl is saying to 'bild' that talks are still going between his club Mönchen Gladbach and Chelsea to sign Thorgan. He believes that a deal is close.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Hazard is most definitely not a product of our academy. He represents direct investment into the academy from elsewhere. That's like claiming Zouma is an academy product when he was produced by St Etienne's prestigious youth academy, which is probably the best in France alongside Lyon.

[Hkibou 622]

Hazard is most definitely not a product of our academy. He represents direct investment into the academy from elsewhere. That's like claiming Zouma is an academy product when he was produced by St Etienne's prestigious youth academy, which is probably the best in France alongside Lyon.

Saint Etienne is not the best youth academy in France alongside Lyon, far from it. First, Lyon is clearly the best, way above all youth academy in the country.

But Saint Etienne is not second, not even third or fourth. In the last 10 years, they have trained very few good players that reached the international level : Bafé Gomis, Faouzhi Ghoulam, Joshua Guilavogui, Loïc Perrin, Kurt Zouma... and that's all. Zouma is the only very good/excellent player (but still have to confirm), all the rest are just avrage/good players. No one is a star, that's for sure.

I can see several clubs that have a better youth academy in the last ten years, with better players coming out of it.

Lille : Eden Hazard, Kevin Mirallas, Divock Origi (belgian internationals), without forgetting Bernard Malanda who would have quickly become one ; Yohan Cabaye, Mathieu Debuchy, Lucas Digne, Franck Ribéry (french internationals).

Lens : Raphaël Varane, Geoffrey Kondogbia, Assou-Ekotto, Serge Aurier, Thorgan Hazard

Monaco : Stéphane Ruffier, Layvin Kurzawa, Nicolas N'koulou, Yannick Ferreira-Carrasco, Jaroslav Plasil...

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Saint Etienne is not the best youth academy in France alongside Lyon, far from it. First, Lyon is clearly the best, way above all youth academy in the country.

But Saint Etienne is not second, not even third or fourth. In the last 10 years, they have trained very few good players that reached the international level : Bafé Gomis, Faouzhi Ghoulam, Joshua Guilavogui, Loïc Perrin, Kurt Zouma... and that's all. Zouma is the only very good/excellent player (but still have to confirm), all the rest are just avrage/good players. No one is a star, that's for sure.

I can see several clubs that have a better youth academy in the last ten years, with better players coming out of it.

Lille : Eden Hazard, Kevin Mirallas, Divock Origi (belgian internationals), without forgetting Bernard Malanda who would have quickly become one ; Yohan Cabaye, Mathieu Debuchy, Lucas Digne, Franck Ribéry (french internationals).

Lens : Raphaël Varane, Geoffrey Kondogbia, Assou-Ekotto, Serge Aurier, Thorgan Hazard

Monaco : Stéphane Ruffier, Layvin Kurzawa, Nicolas N'koulou, Yannick Ferreira-Carrasco, Jaroslav Plasil...

But my point still stands; we can't say Zouma is a Chelsea academy product

[Moros 86]

Saint Etienne is not the best youth academy in France alongside Lyon, far from it. First, Lyon is clearly the best, way above all youth academy in the country.

But Saint Etienne is not second, not even third or fourth. In the last 10 years, they have trained very few good players that reached the international level : Bafé Gomis, Faouzhi Ghoulam, Joshua Guilavogui, Loïc Perrin, Kurt Zouma... and that's all. Zouma is the only very good/excellent player (but still have to confirm), all the rest are just avrage/good players. No one is a star, that's for sure.

I can see several clubs that have a better youth academy in the last ten years, with better players coming out of it.

Lille : Eden Hazard, Kevin Mirallas, Divock Origi (belgian internationals), without forgetting Bernard Malanda who would have quickly become one ; Yohan Cabaye, Mathieu Debuchy, Lucas Digne, Franck Ribéry (french internationals).

Lens : Raphaël Varane, Geoffrey Kondogbia, Assou-Ekotto, Serge Aurier, Thorgan Hazard

Monaco : Stéphane Ruffier, Layvin Kurzawa, Nicolas N'koulou, Yannick Ferreira-Carrasco, Jaroslav Plasil...

Well to be completely correct: Ferreira-Carrasco and Origi are actually KRC Genk's youth academy products (just like KDB and Courtouis).

[MCM4PR3Z 411]

Well to be completely correct: Ferreira-Carrasco and Origi are actually KRC Genk's youth academy products (just like KDB and Courtouis).

And Kevin Mirallas is a Standard Liege product that became big thanks to Olympiakos. Lille hasn't done much for the lad.

[Moros 86]

And Kevin Mirallas is a Standard Liege product that became big thanks to Olympiakos. Lille hasn't done much for the lad.

Also true.

[BlueLion. 21,491]