Rumoured Luke Shaw

[Jase 43,479]

How Much big?

It's up to them. Am guessing somewhere around 25m..

[lionsden 4,689]

Defensive ability. PVA is great going forward but he's not good defensively. Not saying he hasn't improved. He's definitely improved while at Vitesse but he's still not good enough imo. Often out of position and his pace compensates for it because the Eredivisie doesn't have enough quality to punish his every mistake. Won't get away with it in the PL.

I'm not saying I watched every Vitesse match, but I've seen a lot and Bertrand is without doubt a better LB than him.

I think we should let Ash leave, sell PVA, sign Luke and bring back Bertrand and let them both fight it out.

As oppose to shaw is a defensive juggernaut? lol. I have seen more than enough of both players to make the judgement that there's nothing between them both defensively and offensively. The epl experience is the only factor that shades it in favour of Shaw not ability.

As for the point in bold. I'm actually one of Bertrand's biggest fans, I rate his defensive ability very highly however, the ability to defend is only one aspect of a fullbacks game and PVA is miles superior to him offensively. It then boils down to which aspect you rate more in a fullback taking into account the system and style of play of the team as some team's offensive strategy relies heavily on their fullbacks joining the attack to provide width and extra option.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

Defensive ability. PVA is great going forward but he's not good defensively. Not saying he hasn't improved. He's definitely improved while at Vitesse but he's still not good enough imo. Often out of position and his pace compensates for it because the Eredivisie doesn't have enough quality to punish his every mistake. Won't get away with it in the PL.

I'm not saying I watched every Vitesse match, but I've seen a lot and Bertrand is without doubt a better LB than him.

I think we should let Ash leave, sell PVA, sign Luke and bring back Bertrand and let them both fight it out.

As oppose to shaw is a defensive juggernaut? lol. I have seen more than enough of both players to make the judgement that there's nothing between them both defensively and offensively. The epl experience is the only factor that shades it in favour of Shaw not ability.

As for the point in bold. I'm actually one of Bertrand's biggest fans, I rate his defensive ability very highly however, the ability to defend is only one aspect of a fullbacks game and PVA is miles superior to him offensively. It then boils down to which aspect you rate more in a fullback taking into account the system and style of play of the team as some team's offensive strategy relies heavily on their fullbacks joining the attack to provide width and extra option.

Well I'll focus on Chelsea and it's clear defense is a bigger concern for a full back. Hence, why I rate Bertrand more than PVA.

And no Shaw isn't a defensive juggernaut, but I don't think he'd be a liability whereas I def think PVA would be one. And comparing PVA in Eredivisie to Shaw in the PL is useless. Piazon is considered one of the best player in that league right now.

I won't be convinced with PVA until he shows me something in the PL.

[lionsden 4,689]

There's a reason why Shaw is about to make his 50th Premier League appearance before the age at which Van Aanholt had even made his professional debut.

Physically he's stronger, he has better touch than Van Aanholt had at that age, he's composed and defensively he's already better.

True, but there's the English tax to think about and the fact that he's a Chelsea fan, plus United want him. All these factors mean he's probably overpriced by between £5-10 million depending on the source.

Lazy argument not surprised.

One (shaw) plays for a midtable team that prioritizes in developing and producing homegrown talents and blessed with the perfect platform to achieve this objective as their chairman, shareholders and fans do not demand nor expect immediate success in the short to medium term and award the managers the freedom to bring through young players like shaw without any pressure.

While the other (PVA) plays for a club that isn't renowned for its youth development and has far bigger ambition than southampton to always challenge for major honors and be as successful as possible. Also another major factor is the competition that both players had to face. I think Shaw would have found it just as difficult to break into the first team and become a regular starter ahead of one of the greatest left back in modern history, Ashley cole.

Also worth noting the managerial stability shaw benefited from during his transitional period into the first team.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Personally I had bring Van Anholt back and use that £30m to get either a DLP or striker in the summer. I'm yet to see what makes Shaw better than him or worth the asking price.

Probably the blue-tinted spectacles. Doing well in the Eredivisie is one thing, being one of the top 5 left-backs in the Premier League at the age of 18 is another.

[Amblève. 4,995]

20M is a massive fee for a LB. You can't compare it to spending on attacking players. Jordi Alba was 14M Euros and was much more accomplished and experience player than Shaw is right now. I like Shaw and would be a great fit for us long-term but 20M would make him, I believe, the 2nd most expensive LB ever after Coentrao.

True, but there's the English tax to think about and the fact that he's a Chelsea fan, plus United want him. All these factors mean he's probably overpriced by between £5-10 million depending on the source.

I think 15m plus add-ons which would raise the whole fee up to about 20m should be okay, too.

[lionsden 4,689]

Probably the blue-tinted spectacles. Doing well in the Eredivisie is one thing, being one of the top 5 left-backs in the Premier League at the age of 18 is another.

Van nistelrooy, Suarez, Van Persie, Arjen Robben, van der sar, Jan vertonghen, Alex (ex blue) amongst host of others didn't seem to struggle that much with the transition. The automatic dismissal of eredivisie talent or players doing well in that league is getting old.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Also worth noting the managerial stability shaw benefited from during his transitional period into the first team.

Huh? Shaw came through under Adkins who was then sacked (after the game away to us when there was already a fair amount of buzz about the guy) and replaced by Pocchetino.

How is that stability?

Lazy argument not surprised.

One (shaw) plays for a midtable team that prioritizes in developing and producing homegrown talents and blessed with the perfect platform to achieve this objective as their chairman, shareholders and fans do not demand nor expect immediate success in the short to medium term and award the managers the freedom to bring through young players like shaw without any pressure.

Without pressure.....except Cortese explicitly stated an aim to get into the Champions League and spent £69 million net over the last two seasons, more than Liverpool.

[Spike 12,049]

Van nistelrooy, Suarez, Van Persie, Arjen Robben, van der sar, Jan vertonghen, Alex (ex blue) amongst host of others didn't seem to struggle that much with the transition. The automatic dismissal of eredivisie talent or players doing well in that league is getting old.

You could also make an extensive list that compiles those that have struggled from the Eredivisie. Afonso Alves, Mateja Kezman, Ryan Babel, Marco Boogers among others.

[The only place to be 11,313]

As oppose to shaw is a defensive juggernaut? lol. I have seen more than enough of both players to make the judgement that there's nothing between them both defensively and offensively. The epl experience is the only factor that shades it in favour of Shaw not ability.

Is that the same judgment you applied to Rio Ferdinand when you decided he didn't rely on pace as a younger player.

" But what has changed for Rio is that he has lost that electric yard of pace that he had a few years ago and so he needs to rearrange his game a little bit."

Rio was once blessed with pace and, when he was at his best, was undoubtedly one of the best defenders in the world.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Probably the blue-tinted spectacles. Doing well in the Eredivisie is one thing, being one of the top 5 left-backs in the Premier League at the age of 18 is another.

Because PVA didn't do extremely well in the Championship for Newcastle, isn't an International and didn't have some decent performances for us a couple of seasons ago.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

The way people constantly denounce players like PVA, Bertrand and Thorgan Hazard on here yet habitually back the likes of McEachran and Chalobah baffles me.

PVA is quality. He's quite clearly an offensive juggernaut and miles better than Shaw on that end as well as blessed with exceptional athleticism and pace. His defending is inconsistent but the same could be said of Marcelo and Ashley Cole before Mourinho. Real clubs at least attempt to develop and groom their youth.

Shaw is good but he's getting overrated on here because of his childhood team. I think Bertrand is the better defender.

[lionsden 4,689]

Huh? Shaw came through under Adkins who was then sacked (after the game away to us when there was already a fair amount of buzz about the guy) and replaced by Pocchetino.

How is that stability?

So He was able to breakthrough under Adkins who had been at So'to for 3 years. that's more stability than any of our manager has ever enjoyed during the Roman era bar Jose. and by the time of his sacking, Shaw had already established himself as a premier league left back and when pochentino came him he was given the same target and was able to build on Adkins previous youth development work with the introduction of james ward prowse this season. You can clutch at straws all you want but the truth is, Southampton are willing to give chances to its youngsters more freely than Chelsea and it's not even debatable. the result speaks for itself.

Without pressure.....except Cortese explicitly stated an aim to get into the Champions League and spent £69 million net over the last two seasons, more than Liverpool.

There's a difference between an short/medium term target and a long term vision. and even if Cortese put the pressure on So'to's managers, the pressure and ambition is still no where near that of a big club like Chelsea. not even close.

[Spike 12,049]

The way people constantly denounce players like PVA, Bertrand and Thorgan Hazard on here yet habitually back the likes of McEachran and Chalobah baffles me.

PVA is quality. He's quite clearly an offensive juggernaut and miles better than Shaw on that end as well as blessed with exceptional athleticism and pace. His defending is inconsistent but the same could be said of Marcelo and Ashley Cole before Mourinho. Real clubs at least attempt to develop and groom their youth.

Shaw is good but he's getting overrated on here because of his childhood team. I think Bertrand is the better defender.

I don't think anyone rates Josh McEachran anymore...

Besides the club's scouts and Jose seem to be fond of Shaw and if the reports are true and if they are loaning out Bertrand while attempting to sign Shaw they must see something we don't.

[lionsden 4,689]

You could also make an extensive list that compiles those that have struggled from the Eredivisie. Afonso Alves, Mateja Kezman, Ryan Babel, Marco Boogers among others.

And? I could also compile a list of premier league proven players that flopped and failed miserably in the same premier league even while they were still in their prime. What does the back and forth rhetoric really mean. It means, every player and situation should be judged strictly on its own merit. this isn't science fiction. It's football,it's real and it's a game full of complexities and uncertainties which renders prediction based on past results and data useless.

I'm just glad players like mata, Silva, carzola, navas, ozil et al have been able to shut people up for good about the myth that players with slight frame wouldn't be able to handle "the physicality" of the premier league.

[The only place to be 11,313]

So He was able to breakthrough under Adkins who had been at So'to for 3 years. that's more stability than any of our manager has ever enjoyed during the Roman era bar Jose. and by the time of his sacking, Shaw had already established himself as a premier league left back and when pochentino came him he was given the same target and was able to build on Adkins previous youth development work with the introduction of james ward prowse this season. You can clutch at straws all you want but the truth is, Southampton are willing to give chances to its youngsters more freely than Chelsea and it's not even debatable. the result speaks for itself.

close.

I won't deny that Southampton are willing to give youth a chance, but managerial stability....pushing it a little.

The way people constantly denounce players like PVA, Bertrand and Thorgan Hazard on here yet habitually back the likes of McEachran and Chalobah baffles me.

PVA is quality. He's quite clearly an offensive juggernaut and miles better than Shaw on that end as well as blessed with exceptional athleticism and pace. His defending is inconsistent but the same could be said of Marcelo and Ashley Cole before Mourinho. Real clubs at least attempt to develop and groom their youth.

Shaw is good but he's getting overrated on here because of his childhood team. I think Bertrand is the better defender.

Van Aanholt and Bertrand are 23 and 24 respectively. Both are internationals, both have appearances in the hundreds and yet neither is really at the stage where the club or Mourinho trust them.

I'd love to see where people are still habitually backing McEachran. Most think he's in the last chance saloon or approaching it at least, whereas Chalobah has had one bad loan after a great season at Watford.

The reason Shaw is a target is because he's already an exceptional talent despite being half-a-decade younger than the two guys you're talking about. You can't categorically state that either one of these guys who have hundreds more appearances than Shaw are better...that says a lot about his talent.

[Spike 12,049]

And? I could also compile a list of premier league proven players that flopped and failed miserably in the same premier league even while they were still in their prime. What does the back and forth rhetoric really mean. It means, every player and situation should be judged strictly on its own merit. this is not fiction or scientific experiment. It's football, it's real and it's a game of complexities and uncertainties.

I'm just glad players like mata, Silva, carzola, navas, ozil et al have been able to shut people up for good about the myth that players with slight frame wouldn't be able to handle "the physicality" of the league.

You are the one that brought it up. I was just presenting evidence to the contrary.

[Reddish-Blue 2,237]

Van Aanholt and Bertrand are 23 and 24 respectively. Both are internationals, both have appearances in the hundreds and yet neither is really at the stage where the club or Mourinho trust them.

I'd love to see where people are still habitually backing McEachran. Most think he's in the last chance saloon or approaching it at least, whereas Chalobah has had one bad loan after a great season at Watford.

The reason Shaw is a target is because he's already an exceptional talent despite being half-a-decade younger than the two guys you're talking about. You can't categorically state that either one of these guys who have hundreds more appearances than Shaw are better...that says a lot about his talent.

The question should be: why doesn't the club/coach trust them to do a job at LB?

Shaw looks like a good player...but is he really worth 25+ million? (In my opinion, no)