Schurrle signing confirmed; will wear #14

[The Skipper 20,593]

Why would anyone want to be a counter attacking team? With the funds and players we have it seems illogical to me.

Yeah, because signing Schurrle concludes that we'll primarily be a counter attacking team even though our best talents are Mata and Hazard right?

Schurrle is basically a less technical version of Hazard with a selfish streak. The club should focus on strengthening our weaknesses like the midfield, attack or defence before overpaying for a player not too dissimilar from Moses or Hazard.

Yes, because Schurrle is going to be our only signing this season...

Sick of the idiots that run the club, looks like another year with yet another unbalanced squad. Disgusting.

Again, because signing Schurrle means we're not going to sign anyone else and we're just going to go into the season with the squad as it is now even though we're only in June right? So, so disgusting. God.

[The Skipper 20,593]

To me personally counter attacking admits inferiority from the get go.

Yeah you're absolutely right. I mean look at Bayern against Barcelona, a possession based side, last season where Bayern were set up as a counter attacking team. They were so inferior right?

By your logic, Bayern beating Barcelona 7-0 on aggregate should be disregarded because they were set up as a counter attacking team. Bayern were clearly the inferior team .

[Leif 6,006]

No, I doubt anyone actually comes out and says "this guy is merely better than Ramires on the RW".

Most Bundesliga followers agree that ever since he switched to Bayer his career has completely stagnated. His progress has stopped. He's regressed as a player since he was at Mainz, but this could be attributed to the fact that he was more like the 'main guy' there and was thus instilled with confidence. He seems like a confidence player a lot of the time.

It's often noted, just like Marin, that there was a point he could have been the next big thing in Germany. There was a notion that he could have made that switch to a team like Bayern Munich. It never happened, he settled for a 'big' but not as big team and slowly but surely started to make less noise and headlines. The hype died down. He no longer showed the confidence, killer instinct and brute force that he showed as a youngster. The reason he gets picked for Germany, which has been confirmed by the coach, is simply down to the fact that he cuts in which offers Lahm the chance to get forward where-as players like Podolski or whoever stay wide quite a bit more. They agree mainly that he should have stayed as a striker but now it's too late to go back because whenever he does play as a striker he messes it up.

so you have to look at his attributes.

That's exactly what I've been doing. I've been discounting what positions they play (Ramires and Schurrle) and looked directly at their attributes and explained where there similarities start and end. They do possess around the same quality (or lack-of) of crossing and finishing. They also have very similar work-rates and interception stats. There, attributes looked at.

Why you're even saying Schurrle is poor at finishing - probably due to the stat that he's missed the most clear cut chances (20) in the Bundesliga

I wasn't even aware of this stat until literally right now. I say he's poor at finishing because I've watched him all season. The amount of scuffed shots and shots dragged wide is bewildering. He's even been boo'd plenty by Bayer fans because of it. I remember the Irish commentator at the time I first saw/heard the booing saying he understood the fans frustration (but of course agreed it wasn't nice to boo) because of his either too selfish play at times or stupidly passing to a player when he's right in front of goal and should have taken a shot.

[nono 791]

Yeah you're absolutely right. I mean look at Bayern against Barcelona, a possession based side, last season where Bayern were set up as a counter attacking team. They were so inferior right?

By your logic, Bayern beating Barcelona 7-0 on aggregate should be disregarded because they were set up as a counter attacking team. Bayern were clearly the inferior team .

To counterattack you admit right from the start that your midfield is not good enough to hold possession. Barcelona lost for a number of reasons. On average a team that dominates possession will beat one that doesn't. This is why we are superior to the likes of Stoke etc and Barcelona are superior to us.

[Styles 9,790]

To me personally counter attacking admits inferiority from the get go.

Bayern Munich averaged 37% against Barcelona in the semi-finals this season and beat them 7-0 on aggregate. But guess what? Bayern actually averaged 64% possession over the course of the entire season. Some games you will have to play differently so it's wise to have different options in your squad i.e. players like Schurrle who are comfortable in a counter-attacking team.

[Super-Mario 74]

so did we had another options ?

Di Maria- Real wont sell him, if they do it, it will be for huge money.

Hulk - Overrated as hell, could not even accomplish in Russia. Also hes a defensively weak winger. The future of football are winger withdefensively strengthen.

Pedro,Müller, James Rodriguez and Lucas - arent available

Nani - United wont sell him to us

[Leif 6,006]

His point is that primarily being a counter-attacking team regardless of the opposition (which plenty of teams do) admits right away that you have a weak midfield and team in general when it comes to retaining possession which exposes a lack of confidence if you will.

Obviously you have to be flexible with tactics and adapt to certain games and situations, so how teams played against Barcelona (that seems the only example so far and a stupidly obvious one when you consider there's been no other way to play against them in recent years) is completely irrelevant to the point of being a counter-attacking team.

He's discussing being a counter-attacking team in general; not a team who counter-attacks when they need to counter-attack, I believe.

[Leif 6,006]

so did we had another options ?

I think so.

But we have to look at what we're even going in for him for.

If we're getting him to be back-up to Hazard, there's a plethora of cheaper options who'd do the job.

Aubameyang who can also be a starter on the right hand side if he proves himself good enough and even play as a proper striker.

De Bruyne - Who could be a starter or back up.

Jese (a personal favourite of mine) who's being misused by Real Madrid. He's like a Spanish Hazard..or Ronaldo.

Piazon (people seem to have faith in him and I'd be willing to give him a shot as back up)

Payet of Lille whose transfer evaluation is about to sky-rocket.

Luis Muriel whose transfer evaluation is also about to shoot up.

Amin Affane if the club would bloody use him correctly. So talented but going to waste. If they could also pick up Kakuta again and get the ball rolling he'd be an option (although I prefer him through the centre.)

Juan Quintero

Jean-Paul Boëtius from Feyenoord. I expect really big things from him.

Jeremain Lens (since PSV want Bruma he could be part of the deal)

Heung-Min Son - He can cover pretty much anywhere.

Griezmann

As for keeping Hazard on the left and going for someone to start for us on the right:-

Sanchez

De Bruyne (perhaps)

Di Maria

Gaitan (although he'd be used as an inside-forward most likely which I believe he really should be converted to)

Jese (again)

Aubameyang (again)

All realistic. Most would be cheaper than Schurrle and the ones who'd be more expensive would more than likely be better especially for a possession-based team.

[Chelsea? 892]

Yeah you're absolutely right. I mean look at Bayern against Barcelona, a possession based side, last season where Bayern were set up as a counter attacking team. They were so inferior right?

By your logic, Bayern beating Barcelona 7-0 on aggregate should be disregarded because they were set up as a counter attacking team. Bayern were clearly the inferior team .

Bayern were not set up as a counter attacking team. You don't out score your opponents in the league by 50+ goals by playing counter attacking football

[Styles 9,790]

His point is that primarily being a counter-attacking team regardless of the opposition (which plenty of teams do) admits right away that you have a weak midfield and team in general when it comes to retaining possession which exposes a lack of confidence if you will.

Obviously you have to be flexible with tactics and adapt to certain games and situations, so how teams played against Barcelona (that seems the only example so far and a stupidly obvious one when you consider there's been no other way to play against them in recent years) is completely irrelevant to the point of being a counter-attacking team.

He's discussing being a counter-attacking team in general; not a team who counter-attacks when they need to counter-attack, I believe.

For the vast majority of our games we're going to be playing teams we're much better than and we will dominate the ball. We don't play Barcelona every week. Barcelona are very good at ball retention, it's what they do better than every team in the world. Bayern recognised that and played accordingly. That's the level of intelligence our teams needs to have. Dominate when you need to and play counter-attacking football when you have to. Why shun a very effective style of football because of its perceived lack of confidence? It worked for Bayern and they're European Champions.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Most Bundesliga followers agree that ever since he switched to Bayer his career has completely stagnated. His progress has stopped. He's regressed as a player since he was at Mainz, but this could be attributed to the fact that he was more like the 'main guy' there and was thus instilled with confidence. He seems like a confidence player a lot of the time.

It's often noted, just like Marin, that there was a point he could have been the next big thing in Germany. There was a notion that he could have made that switch to a team like Bayern Munich. It never happened, he settled for a 'big' but not as big team and slowly but surely started to make less noise and headlines. The hype died down. He no longer showed the confidence, killer instinct and brute force that he showed as a youngster. The reason he gets picked for Germany, which has been confirmed by the coach, is simply down to the fact that he cuts in which offers Lahm the chance to get forward where-as players like Podolski or whoever stay wide quite a bit more. They agree mainly that he should have stayed as a striker but now it's too late to go back because whenever he does play as a striker he messes it up.

This is bogus sorry, Schurrle was nowhere near as hyped up as Marko Marin was. Marin was called the German Messi for crying out loud. His last season at Mainz was brilliant and he hasn't yet reached that level with Bayer (mostly due to him moving down as an inside forward - still getting fully accustomed to that role IMO) but that doesn't mean his development has completely stagnated. He's still one of Bayer's most dangerous players, clearly. He's only 22 so he has plenty of time to still develop his game so to simply write him off because he hasn't been as dominant as he was at Mainz is mind boggling. He still produces at a decent enough level to be warranted a good purchase, he's miles better than Marin at the moment.

That's exactly what I've been doing. I've been discounting what positions they play (Ramires and Schurrle) and looked directly at their attributes and explained where there similarities start and end. They do possess around the same quality (or lack-of) of crossing and finishing. They also have very similar work-rates and interception stats. There, attributes looked at.

Funny how you're completely ignoring, as I said in my previous post, that Schurrle has played on the flanks far more often than Ramires so they shouldn't even be compared. Schurrle is a bigger threat in and around the area than Ramires is; and has similar work rate to Ramires is where the comparison stops.

I wasn't even aware of this stat until literally right now. I say he's poor at finishing because I've watched him all season. The amount of scuffed shots and shots dragged wide is bewildering. He's even been boo'd plenty by Bayer fans because of it. I remember the Irish commentator at the time I first saw/heard the booing saying he understood the fans frustration (but of course agreed it wasn't nice to boo) because of his either too selfish play at times or stupidly passing to a player when he's right in front of goal and should have taken a shot.

Well, you're confusing finishing with decision making then. Andre has a good finish on him, you don't score 13 goals in a season if you don't. His decision making isn't perfect but it's more or less what to expect from a 22 year old who still has a bit of development to do.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Bayern were not set up as a counter attacking team. You don't out score your opponents in the league by 50+ goals by playing counter attacking football

Obviously I was solely referring to the two games versus Barcelona.

[Leif 6,006]

For the vast majority of our games we're going to be playing teams we're much better than and we will dominate the ball.

I disagree. We've had possession completely controlled against us by the likes of Everton, Swansea, Rubin, Shakhtar etc. We can't just magically turn into a ball-dominating team with the turn of a new season.

In the Premier League last season, the only games we had more than 50% possession were:-

Reading, Newcastle (marginal), Stoke, Norwich, West Brom, Fulham, West Ham, Sunderland, Villa (8-0), Norwich (again), QPR, Stoke (again), Southampton, Wigan, West Brom (again), Sunderland (again), Manchester United (51% to us) & Aston Villa (again).

So we only had more possession vs. teams now relegated, were fighting relegation, were newly promoted and then West Brom, West Ham, Manchester United (by 1%) and Stoke City.

None of those were 'dominated' either.

[GermanBlue 82]

Most Bundesliga followers agree that ever since he switched to Bayer his career has completely stagnated. His progress has stopped. He's regressed as a player since he was at Mainz, but this could be attributed to the fact that he was more like the 'main guy' there and was thus instilled with confidence. He seems like a confidence player a lot of the time.

It's often noted, just like Marin, that there was a point he could have been the next big thing in Germany. There was a notion that he could have made that switch to a team like Bayern Munich. It never happened, he settled for a 'big' but not as big team and slowly but surely started to make less noise and headlines. The hype died down. He no longer showed the confidence, killer instinct and brute force that he showed as a youngster. The reason he gets picked for Germany, which has been confirmed by the coach, is simply down to the fact that he cuts in which offers Lahm the chance to get forward where-as players like Podolski or whoever stay wide quite a bit more. They agree mainly that he should have stayed as a striker but now it's too late to go back because whenever he does play as a striker he messes it up.

I wouldn't say he's regressed as a player. I'm not too convinced from the transfer, especially from the fee, but you're making him worse than he is. The season before his transfer to Leverkusen, Mainz played a unbelievably good season and went from being a candidate for relegation to a Euro League spot. They really had a great team back then with Schürrle, Holtby and Szalai being the most important players. Of course, at Leverkusen he's not as much in the center of attention, but he's surely still one of their main players (along with Kießling and Bender I'd say). His confidence is still high, he's trying shots from unbelievable areas and even hits the target and scores some of them. And although I'm not his biggest fan and always liked Podolski in the NT more, he deserved his spot through the last years. Not exactly with tactical suitability, but with his offensive quality scoring 5 goals in his first 11 games for Germany. I agree with you that he messes up as a striker. He's not doing a good job holding up the ball with the back to the goal etc., but he never was a clear striker! André always was that more dynamic alrounder and even in that great season at Mainz, he rarely played up front, because Szalai was set as a starter there. That's where he also played on the left wing and he did great. Generally, his stats from Mainz and Leverkusen are very similar:

Mainz: 66 games, 20 goals, 8 assists.

Leverkusen: 65 games, 18 goals, 13 assists. (Bundesliga games)

But I don't want to overestimate him. I'm not a big fan of him either. What's his major problem to me is consistency. He has 1-2 very good games and in the next 5-6 matches, you rarely recognise him on the pitch. That could be a problem for him at Chelsea as time to prove will be limited.

I wasn't even aware of this stat until literally right now. I say he's poor at finishing because I've watched him all season. The amount of scuffed shots and shots dragged wide is bewildering. He's even been boo'd plenty by Bayer fans because of it. I remember the Irish commentator at the time saying he understood the fans frustration (but of course agreed it wasn't nice to boo.)

Although the booings are really rare, I agree with the rest. He needs to work on his finishing. That's his second big problem. He sometimes seems not to have a clear idea what to do with the ball. That's not only seen when he's in front of the keeper, but also generally in the box. Sometimes he rushes a bit and makes the wrong decisions.

[iceboy 992]

We have better better option than Schurrle,,.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

We're not even a Top 5 possession side in England alone. Our biggest problem is recent times is our inability to keep possession.

Swansea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City and United are all better possession teams than us. Hell, I'd even put Southampton under Pocchetino in that group.

Schurrle isn't the answer to that glaring weakness.

[GermanBlue 82]

If we're signing a pacey, dynamic winger to better our keeping of posession, we'd do awful business anyway. We will sign a CM, if Mou is also seeing that issue.

[didierforever 7,349]

so did we had another options ?

Di Maria- Real wont sell him, if they do it, it will be for huge money.

Hulk - Overrated as hell, could not even accomplish in Russia. Also hes a defensively weak winger. The future of football are winger withdefensively strengthen.

Pedro,Müller, James Rodriguez and Lucas - arent available

Nani - United wont sell him to us

20 mil for schurlle, add 5mil more and get DI MARIA who is heads and shoulders above him... and real do want to sell him.