David Luiz

[robsblubot 3,502]

Well, Luiz is impressive when it works. If it doesn´t, he is liability.

I am a supporter from the older school. I like to see him staying back or one more mistake, I´d benched him.

fair enough. We all have our own personal preferences, esp concerning styles.

However, the alternative of employing a player who is less apt (technically speaking), which would only cause us to concede goals at the highest level, when facing gifted forwarders who he wouldn't be able to handle, isn't any better. There wouln't be any scoring if Cbs didn't make mistakes, but the mistakes can be very obvious like the one David made, or less obvious, when the defender is easily beaten by a FW on pace, or skill, etc. The result is the same though.

I just don't think we have that player you speak of, aside from Terry. Either Luiz gets his shit together, or we will need to find another player who is technically as good, and at the same time more composed (good luck with that one). I for one don't share the idea that Cahill is good enough to be a starter for Chelsea (or England). BTW, his style of play makes England a worse team all the way to the front.

Also, players can and do become more composed as they age. However, players rarely (or at least not as much) improve their technique.

[bushman 2,043]

fair enough. We all have our own personal preferences, esp concerning styles.

However, the alternative of employing a player who is less apt (technically speaking), which would only cause us to concede goals at the highest level, when facing gifted forwarders who he wouldn't be able to handle, isn't any better. There wouln't be any scoring if Cbs didn't make mistakes, but the mistakes can be very obvious like the one David made, or less obvious, when the defender is easily beaten by a FW on pace, or skill, etc. The result is the same though.

I just don't think we have that player you speak of, aside from Terry. Either Luiz gets his shit together, or we will need to find another player who is technically as good, and at the same time more composed (good luck with that one). I for one don't share the idea that Cahill is good enough to be a starter for Chelsea (or England). BTW, his style of play makes England a worse team all the way to the front.

Also, players can and do become more composed as they age. However, players rarely (or at least not as much) improve their technique.

I believe JT & Cahill are better defenders than Luiz.

As you said, we prefer various styles. When Luiz goes on the attack, mid-fielders are looking at him flying by. If he makes mistake, the ball is taken away from him, a quick counter-attack follows & Luiz is adjusting his shorts in the nowhere land.

Personally, I do not even like to see him taking a long distance free kicks. Short ones, let him have it though.

Most of the times, he kicks the ball into Jesus´ land.

[robsblubot 3,502]

I believe JT & Cahill are better defenders than Luiz.

As you said, we prefer various styles. When Luiz goes on the attack, mid-fielders are looking at him flying by. If he makes mistake, the ball is taken away from him, a quick counter-attack follows & Luiz is adjusting his shorts in the nowhere land.

Personally, I do not even like to see him taking a long distance free kicks. Short ones, let him have it though.

Most of the times, he kicks the ball into Jesus´ land.

OK, now were are discussing a different thing. When he goes to attack that's up to the team to provide or not cover for him. If we cannot provide cover for his runs, then the manager tells him not to make them otherwise he's dropped; neither happens so we have to assume he is not told to quit making runs esp since we've got a CB playing RB in Iva - who can easily cover Luiz.

Now going back to his positioning and lack of concentration at times, that's indeed a problem. Pretty sure Luiz himself knows it and I only hope they've been working with him to improve on that.

Agree about Terry disagree on Cahill. Really don't see what you guys see in him. Nothing special about his game or technique. He always looks composed, but that's hardly enough for top sides or when playing against top sides.

[bushman 2,043]

OK, now were are discussing a different thing. When he goes to attack that's up to the team to provide or not cover for him. If we cannot provide cover for his runs, then the manager tells him not to make them otherwise he's dropped; neither happens so we have to assume he is not told to quit making runs esp since we've got a CB playing RB in Iva - who can easily cover Luiz.

Now going back to his positioning and lack of concentration at times, that's indeed a problem. Pretty sure Luiz himself knows it and I only hope they've been working with him to improve on that.

Agree about Terry disagree on Cahill. Really don't see what you guys see in him. Nothing special about his game or technique. He always looks composed, but that's hardly enough for top sides or when playing against top sides.

How do you stop Luiz from attacks ? Sometimes, he is up top so fast, JT or Iva are looking confused what happened, then.

Cahill, makes mistakes too, I agree. But every player does.

One thing I believe, if Chelsea buys Mangala from Porto Luiz might be gone.

[robsblubot 3,502]

How do you stop Luiz from attacks ? Sometimes, he is up top so fast, JT or Iva are looking confused what happened, then.

Cahill, makes mistakes too, I agree. But every player does.

One thing I believe, if Chelsea buys Mangala from Porto Luiz might be gone.

Instructions, match preparation, training... he didn't make a single run in the CL final; he rarely makes runs for Brazil. Honestly, if the manager tells him not to make the runs and he still does, why would the manager play him after he disobeys his instructions? Players are dropped for far less. So I have to assume and I know that Benitez for example stated so, that they actually encourage him to make them.

Haven't seen Mangala play, but he's hardly been tested at the highest stage. I just hope Luiz doesn't move to Barca or Bayern then, because that would work too well for them (style wise).

On Cahill, not talking about mistakes so much, but technical deficiencies which will be only found when playing at the highest level against skillful FW. Getting beaten for example. Luiz proactive way of playing is the right one against top strikers and players - don't give em time to control the football and turn, otherwise they will punish you.

[bushman 2,043]

Instructions, match preparation, training... he didn't make a single run in the CL final; he rarely makes runs for Brazil. Honestly, if the manager tells him not to make the runs and he still does, why would the manager play him after he disobeys his instructions? Players are dropped for far less. So I have to assume and I know that Benitez for example stated so, that they actually encourage him to make them.

Haven't seen Mangala play, but he's hardly been tested at the highest stage. I just hope Luiz doesn't move to Barca or Bayern then, because that would work too well for them (style wise).

On Cahill, not talking about mistakes so much, but technical deficiencies which will be only found when playing at the highest level against skillful FW. Getting beaten for example. Luiz proactive way of playing is the right one against top strikers and players - don't give em time to control the football and turn, otherwise they will punish you.

Oh boy, I like this " Luiz proactive way of playing.." may I ask how does that work against top strikers ? Are they watching his feet shuffle ?

[Tomo 21,733]

I think Garry Neville put it perfectly. The EPL and the English "pundits" are not used to defenders like Luiz. It's a cultural difference and no one style has to be wrong and the other right.

Carragher's pretty decent as far as pundits go, but he always looks out of his depth when debating with Neville.

I think that shows a complete lack of understanding of English football. Which pundits are you referring to? One of the harshest critics has probably been Alan Hansen, so are you saying he's not used to defenders like Luiz???

You can reference these defenders who might have aspects of Luiz's game, but they were switched on guys who defended first. I don't know if Luiz couldn't be bothered on Saturday or was just having an off day, but this is who he is. He will make mistakes that will lead to goals. He'll also look like the best defender on Earth sometimes.

That's the deal you get with these type of players. Lucio was exactly the same, so is Pique. They will take risk's and every now and again the risk will backfire, but what he brings to the table outweighs the risk, English pundits are still have their head buried in the get stuck in and hoof it away.

All of the pundits and commentator's go on about Luiz, even when he had a near perfect match in Romania, the commentator was bleating on about his supposed wreckless side, it's relentless.

[mac.bo 48]

Defend first (he's a defender....clue's in the title).

Best of both worlds push him into the " Mikel role" in front of Terry who can talk or shout at him! At least his errors are getting less but still has to learn when and when not to tackle.

[Korea 734]

eh, I dont rate Luiz as "world class" as people on this board do...

However, with our current squad, the only CBs that should be mentioned with him are Terry and Ivan.. (But than again they all start so....)

[robsblubot 3,502]

Oh boy, I like this " Luiz proactive way of playing.." may I ask how does that work against top strikers ? Are they watching his feet shuffle ?

heh maybe... that can be quite entertaining.

David is very quick and aggressive which allows him to apply pressure high up in the field (aside from bad decision like in Everton's goal) and close down on those top forwarders very quickly, before they have enough time to control the football and turn. That's key to stopping them, because at the very least they are slowed down just enough to allow our defense to get organized. Aguero for example got quite frustrated with Luiz last season; so much so that he ended up lashing out at him.

Cahill on the other hand isn't that quick and cannot close down on opponents very well. Since the top forwarders can receive the ball and turn very quickly, Cahill ends up back off a lot, which is very often punished. I actually find it funny that people here think Cahill chooses to back off... On the other hand, Terry's great reading of the game puts him in a far better position of being proactive like David (just not as high up the pitch), even though he's not that quick. Thats' the reason JT and David are IMO the best pairing: they are different enough to complement each other, and at the same time prevent the top forwarders from having too much time on the ball.

@Korea, David is world class; whether you like his style or you think he doesn't work in our system that's OK. However, the mere fact other top top sides are willing to spend good money on him should be evidence enough that he is indeed world class. Most Brazil starters are world class too, btw. e.g. most of them could (and do) start for top sides in the world.

The fact England don't employ their absolute best defender is just beyond me.

[Barbara 15,149]

I can't for the life of me remember a big match we had where Luiz was a liability and compromised the final score or even conceding a goal because of his lack of concentration, sloppy defending or because he made a bad choice about his positioning - but it must be said my memory sucks

But I've seen a pattern - even in Brazil - that against weaker sides or matches of less importance he feels more careless, but in big matches, I could name very few (if more than a couple) of CB more solid than him. It doesn't take away the fact he has a problem if he lacks concentration or is sloppy when playing 'normal' matches or facing weaker defenses. But that makes me believe that someone like Mourinho is going to be able to fix that because there are few managers out there that demand so much from players and make them produce as much as Mourinho does.

In big matches we have Luiz in the back (especially partnered with Terry) I have absolutely no worries about him making a mistake because of lack of concentration or sloppy defending. He may be led to make a mistake by attackers - but that's what attackers are there to do and most times it's more their merit than a fault to the defender. There's no infallible defender in any club in the world, but I know most of you are talking about sloppiness - which is far from forced errors.

He needs to improve it, and Mourinho will pressure him enough - both with words and actions - reinforcing discipline at all matches.

[Rmpr 8,977]

I still dont know why Luiz is so different when he plays for Brazil and Chelsea...

[Tomo 21,733]

I can't for the life of me remember a big match we had where Luiz was a liability and compromised the final score or even conceding a goal because of his lack of concentration, sloppy defending or because he made a bad choice about his positioning - but it must be said my memory sucks

But I've seen a pattern - even in Brazil - that against weaker sides or matches of less importance he feels more careless, but in big matches, I could name very few (if more than a couple) of CB more solid than him. It doesn't take away the fact he has a problem if he lacks concentration or is sloppy when playing 'normal' matches or facing weaker defenses. But that makes me believe that someone like Mourinho is going to be able to fix that because there are few managers out there that demand so much from players and make them produce as much as Mourinho does.

In big matches we have Luiz in the back (especially partnered with Terry) I have absolutely no worries about him making a mistake because of lack of concentration or sloppy defending. He may be led to make a mistake by attackers - but that's what attackers are there to do and most times it's more their merit than a fault to the defender. There's no infallible defender in any club in the world, but I know most of you are talking about sloppiness - which is far from forced errors.

He needs to improve it, and Mourinho will pressure him enough - both with words and actions - reinforcing discipline at all matches.

Post's like these make me wish we were allowed to create multiple account's to give lots of rep out

Spot on.

[The_Flash 1,144]

I think Luiz is a very strong player he made a mistake the other day happens to the best of us, I would pick him anyway

[Korea 734]

heh maybe... that can be quite entertaining.

David is very quick and aggressive which allows him to apply pressure high up in the field (aside from bad decision like in Everton's goal) and close down on those top forwarders very quickly, before they have enough time to control the football and turn. That's key to stopping them, because at the very least they are slowed down just enough to allow our defense to get organized. Aguero for example got quite frustrated with Luiz last season; so much so that he ended up lashing out at him.

Cahill on the other hand isn't that quick and cannot close down on opponents very well. Since the top forwarders can receive the ball and turn very quickly, Cahill ends up back off a lot, which is very often punished. I actually find it funny that people here think Cahill chooses to back off... On the other hand, Terry's great reading of the game puts him in a far better position of being proactive like David (just not as high up the pitch), even though he's not that quick. Thats' the reason JT and David are IMO the best pairing: they are different enough to complement each other, and at the same time prevent the top forwarders from having too much time on the ball.

@Korea, David is world class; whether you like his style or you think he doesn't work in our system that's OK. However, the mere fact other top top sides are willing to spend good money on him should be evidence enough that he is indeed world class. Most Brazil starters are world class too, btw. e.g. most of them could (and do) start for top sides in the world.

The fact England don't employ their absolute best defender is just beyond me.

I guess Vertoghen, Agger, Pique, Kjaer, Chygrynskiy, dymtro, Caceras are all world class as well... I can understand AMs, CFs and CMs, but def. not CBs.

But than again, English club fans rate all their players as world class...

[Korea 734]

One thing I notice when he is paired with Silva is that Silva goes forward more often than Luiz....

Maybe is communication problems or language barriers he has at Chelsea still...

[Special Juan 27,424]

One thing I notice when he is paired with Silva is that Silva goes forward more often than Luiz....

Maybe is communication problems or language barriers he has at Chelsea still...

Football speaks lots of languages, if someone goes you stick. People are over analyzing things way too much.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I can't for the life of me remember a big match we had where Luiz was a liability and compromised the final score or even conceding a goal because of his lack of concentration, sloppy defending or because he made a bad choice about his positioning

Cardiff, Everton, Everton (last season)....

oh wait, are those not big matches? Because people still pay the same prices for the tickets and travel to turn up and support the team. Maybe this is the mentality Luiz needs to adopt because if he wants to be captain of this club then he needs to treat every match like it's as big a match as the kid turning up to see his first match is treating it.

It's all very well having 'personality' (big hair and he does thumbs up a lot) but real personality is turning up and giving 100% every time. If he needs an example of that then there's a guy stood next to him who has done that for the last decade, and one in front and one behind him too.