Politics & Stuff

[xPetrCechx 13,573]

For fuck's sake. Get your shit together, Israel.

???

[Dion 2,476]

Arafat was a great mentor and example to the Palestinians - such a tragedy that now it is almost certain he was poisoned, it leaves any notion of trust in a precarious position.

I must say though the discussions on this thread, from people coming from poles apart have been conducted politely, and the leaders of israel and the Palestinians are more intransigent and childish than some of TC members. They could learn from our diplomacy and quid pro quo !

That's why mediators are invaluable in order to solve problems when hatred is involved. It blinds both parties and makes it difficult to compromise, because it requires both sides making concessions, and none of them want to be the first one to do it because they feel it would be a sign that they were losing or conceding defeat. Why would you back down if you were winning? What's difficult to see is that none of them is winning, both are losing.

I've had a personal experience with that when my parents got a divorce. My parents are some of the smartest people I know. Specially my dad. But damn, I swear they were behaving more childish and stupid than my little brother who was 9 at the time. It requires a lot of wisdom and composure to be able to clearly assess the situation when you're directly involved and affected.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Can't even begin to explain how much I want this to be true and actually happen:

But I guess that's more wishful thinking than anything....

[Fulham Broadway 17,333]

Can't even begin to explain how much I want this to be true and actually happen:

But I guess that's more wishful thinking than anything....

I wouldnt be surprised if that is true Chou. Thing is we know Israel will reject the prisoner release bit out of hand, and that they will do what ever they can to reignite the situation in 3, 6 months time even if it was to occur.

Shrewd and sensible move by Hamas though...puts the ball in their court with a 'we want peace' angle rather than the 'Israel has no right to exist' mantra.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I wouldnt be surprised if that is true Chou. Thing is we know Israel will reject the prisoner release bit out of hand, and that they will do what ever they can to reignite the situation in 3, 6 months time even if it was to occur.

Shrewd and sensible move by Hamas though...puts the ball in their court with a 'we want peace' angle rather than the 'Israel has no right to exist' mantra.

It's agonizing because if that somehow by some miracle happens, it would be the exact same 'leap of faith' that we were saying was needed to move this conflict out of the current stalemate. That could seriously be the first step towards a solution. Too bad it won't happen. Sigh...

[EBH 283]

Yeah, the horse that is Israel's right to exist has long bolted, no point in trying to shut the gate now. Better to have something at least rather than gamble everything on the unlikely event of a complete Israeli collapse.

Edit: at FB

[Spike 12,049]

If the Palenstines where given their land back where would the Israelis go?

[EBH 283]

If the Palenstines where given their land back where would the Israelis go?

The truly Israeli Jews would stay behind presumably, while European Israelis would be repatriated somewhere in Europe, potentially a Jewish state established on what is now German territory. That would be my solution to the problem.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Can't even begin to explain how much I want this to be true and actually happen:

But I guess that's more wishful thinking than anything....

That Rafah border will be a major issue with the Egyptians. It will take A LOT of negotiations and Egypt will not be too flexible especially if hamas are controlling the other side.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

They asks to many things they not gonna get. they want airport, good joke.

BTW what do you think about that (Egyptian TV):

That is really old news. Egyptians hate Hamas, but they can distinguish clearly between Hamas and the Palestinians in Gaza. In case you don't know, we are on fighting militants in Sinai on daily basis, some of which are Hamas, Qaeda and other militant groups. But we care about the Palestinians. However the loss in civilian lives is minimal as we are approaching these operations carefully. Plus, the residents of Sinai are helping the army. That is the key in dealing with such situation. Try to take out the enemy without hurting innocents. But that is not the approach Israel is taking.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Not the approach? we are doing above and beyond not to hurt inncent people, hamas is killing is own people by saying them to stay after the idf calls their homes and tell them to evacute.

A Palestinian boy in Gaza City holds a leaflet air-dropped by Israeli forces warning residents to evacuate.

the IDF does all in its power to limit civilian casualties. This is the TRUTH

LOL, you want people to leave there homes to be demolished and go where? Do you even know what your saying? A competent effective military knows how to take out the threat with minimal collateral damage. Not kill more civilians than enemies!

[Stingray 9,441]

A Palestinian boy in Gaza City holds a leaflet air-dropped by Israeli forces warning residents to evacuate.

And where would they go? You still haven't answered my question. Do you think Palestinians are equal to Israeli?

Let's talk about truth after that answer...

[Stingray 9,441]

to leave the house and be safe.

Thats a good one ...

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

thousands of people are left their homes not everyone yet, this is why we are not attacking more aggressively Hamas is telling them to stay he don't care about them he just want to use their homes to shoos rockets.

so it's their choice... to stay in their home and risk their life or to leave the house and be safe.

I already asked you a simple question, I believe stingray asked you the same. After they leave their homes and you destroy them, what do you expect them to do? Where do you expect them to live?

[Stingray 9,441]

I already asked you a simple question, I believe stingray asked you the same. After they leave their homes and you destroy them, what do you expect them to do? Where do you expect them to live?

Thats exactly the agenda, get them out and/or killed and annex the land. This tactics of silent killing in order to accomplish that agenda is just what is happening now. This is the definition of an ethnic cleansing - as it is been seen by more and more people all over the world and believe me the world is watching - not just the neocons that are posted here on those youtube movies.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

It's their problem! they can't blame Israel for bombing an area that rockets being shots from. how can you say Israel not doing the best not to hurt civilians? we are providing them food, electricity, gas, water EVERYTHING. all this things we provide to Gaza is also used by Hamas who trying to hurt Israeli civilians, what country will provide food gas etc... to the enemy? NO ONE!

we will not bomb all the houses, just those that Hamas use to shot rockets from it's their problem where they will live. it's better to stay alive without a home than risk your life.

LOL. That is just the most non sense thing I heard on this thread.

[Stingray 9,441]

It's their problem! they can't blame Israel for bombing an area that rockets being shots from. how can you say Israel not doing the best not to hurt civilians? we are providing them food, electricity, gas, water EVERYTHING. all this things we provide to Gaza is also used by Hamas who trying to hurt Israeli civilians, what country will provide food gas etc... to the enemy? NO ONE!

we will not bomb all the houses, just those that Hamas use to shot rockets from it's their problem where they will live. it's better to stay alive without a home than risk your life.

Gaza is a de facto concentration camp. It is against EVERY international treaty and law, what you guys are doing. And the argument about London being bombed: London was but it didn't put a fence around Belfast and bomb the shit out of it.

Its their problem you say ... it means an utter disrespect for the lives of innocent people. Hence my question: do you think Israelis and Palestininians are equal?

To quote the old testament:

20 The LORD also said, "Sodom and Gomorrah have many complaints against them, and their sin is very serious. 21 I must go down and see whether these complaints are true. If not, I will know it." 22 From there the men turned and went on toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing in front of the LORD. 23 Abraham came closer and asked, "Are you really going to sweep away the innocent with the guilty? 24 What if there are 50 innocent people in the city? Are you really going to sweep them away? Won't you spare that place for the sake of the 50 innocent people who are in it? 25 It would be unthinkable for you to do such a thing, to treat the innocent and the guilty alike and to kill the innocent with the guilty. That would be unthinkable! Won't the judge of the whole earth do what is fair?" 26 The LORD said, "If I find 50 innocent people inside the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake." 27 Abraham asked, "Consider now, if I may be so bold as to ask you, although I'm [only] dust and ashes, 28 what if there are 45 innocent people? Will you destroy the whole city because of 5 fewer people?" The LORD answered, "I will not destroy it if I find 45 there." 29 Abraham asked him again, "What if 40 are found there?" He answered, "For the sake of the 40 I will not do it." 30 "Please don't be angry if I speak again," Abraham said. "What if 30 are found there?" He answered, "If I find 30 there, I will not do it." 31 "Look now, if I may be so bold as to ask you," Abraham said. "What if 20 are found there?" He answered, "I will not destroy it for the sake of the 20." 32 "Please don't be angry if I speak only one more time," Abraham said. "What if 10 are found there?" He answered, "I will not destroy it for the sake of the 10." 33 When the LORD finished speaking to Abraham, he left. Abraham returned home.

Even though it has Hamas and rockets, it has more then 10, 20, 30 or 50 innocents. It already has 800.000 children.....

Have you lost your humanity completely?

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

So what you are basically saying is that because Hamas is using this tactics of shooting from innocent people houses Israel can't defend her self and allow Hamas to shoot freely?

A big part of Hamas leadership is hiding in the hospital because they not we will not bomb it, safe place for them. we didn't lost out humanity and we have the most human army in the world.

I believe he asked you twice if you think Israelis and Palestinians equal. Can you answer that? I am interested in knowing too.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Even John Stewart gets it and he's not exactly pro-Palestine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40R3Yb7DTzo

[Stingray 9,441]

No they are not Equal, we have the iron dome that intercepts around 90% of the rockets a first class system from her kind and this system is the difference between the two sides, we are developing high technology system to protect our civilians when Hamas uses civilians as human shields. we are in war and in war you have victims from both sides, yesterday we heard about the first Israeli who lost is life since the operation has started, one victim and one too much. I know the numbers in the other side are much more high but they are the victims of the way Hamas fight to "defend" is people.

Sad. They are the victims of Israels army and their weapons. I am glad you finally came through to speak your heart. You really do not see them as equal. So it is ok to kill innocents? Where do you want Hamas to hide in Gaza? Have you seen the place? If Hamas put a bomb on a IDF soldiers home, how severe would the retaliation be? You see them as Untermenschen, and yes, I do use that term.

Maybe you are one of those Israeli youths wearing a t-shirt like this?

The cultural environment is your country is so right wing right now, you are completely blind for it...