Politics & Stuff

[Peace. 4,352]

He did not know that this gesture was anti-semitic because it is NOT anti-semitic. There's nothing to add — except that you people should start thinking by yourself instead of believing words coming from politicians and mainstream medias who are corrupted and under influence of some lobbies.

The vast majority (99%) of the persons labelling this gesture as anti semitic are doing so because some powerful-corrupted-evil men (Bernard-Henri Lévy, that son of bitch) in France have decided so (in order to discredit and marginalize Dieudonné and his opinions). Obviously, the mentally-dead people follow like sheeps that definition without bothering to try to understand by themselves.

[Weckerz 3,781]

He did not know that this gesture was anti-semitic because it is NOT anti-semitic. There's nothing to add — except that you people should start thinking by yourself instead of believing words coming from politicians and mainstream medias who are corrupted and under influence of some lobbies.

The vast majority (99%) of the persons labelling this gesture as anti semitic are doing so because some powerful-corrupted-evil men (Bernard-Henri Lévy, that son of bitch) in France have decided so (in order to discredit and marginalize Dieudonné and his opinions). Obviously, the mentally-dead people follow like sheeps that definition without bothering to try to understand by themselves.

So let me get this straight, the fact he has been condemned in court several times for antisemitism and that he has close ties with Front National should be conveniently ignored here?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I'll say it again - it doesn't matter what he meant, if the act is recognized as an anti-semitic one then its wrong that he did it no matter what he actually meant.

You do not harm any one by watching Hitler movies because you keep it to yourself, and what exactly is "hitler movies" anyway?

I truly believe Anelka did not mean any harm and that was just a gesture to his dead friend.

If I may, I think the issue that bushman (and even LDN) we're trying to make is that: Who determines what is recognized as antisemitic and what is not?

There are a lot of gray areas just like there is with racism, homophobia...etc There are also quite a lot of entangled areas. On the surface, Zionism is about Jews and often Zionism is synonymous with the establishment (oil and weapons companies) but being antiestablishment does not make you antisemitic.

Politicians always use those gray and entangled areas to suppress opinions and causes by labeling them immoral and not "politically correct". It is strategy that is used by both left and right wings.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

So let me get this straight, the fact he has been condemned in court several times for antisemitism and that he has close ties with Front National should be conveniently ignored here?

Nelson Mandella was on the US list of terrorists till 2008. So that makes everyone who supported his cause till that date a terrorist?

The world is unfortunately full of racists, terrorists, antisemitic people, homophobic people...etc but it is also full of people who use those tags to suppress ideas beliefs and causes.

[Weckerz 3,781]

Nelson Mandella was on the US list of terrorists till 2008. So that makes everyone who supported his cause till that date a terrorist?

The world is unfortunately full of racists, terrorists, antisemitic people, homophobic people...etc but it is also full of people who use those tags to suppress ideas beliefs and causes.

If you understood what Front National embodies and how fascism is discretely but surely creeping back in to society you wouldn't shrug it off so easily as nonsense.

The question is wether Anelka knew about what the salute is perceived as by the general public, something you'd assume he does, seeing he is close friends with the man who popularized the gesture in his country.

[Peace. 4,352]

So let me get this straight, the fact he has been condemned in court several times for antisemitism and that he has close ties with Front National should be conveniently ignored here?

Yeah, Dieudonné has been condemned many times by courts — the same courts that refused to respond to the accusations that some muslims associations have made toward some french medias, because those medias published caricatures of Mahomet. Double standard.

Say something or make fun against someone or something that happens to be jew -> you're the brand new Hitler and you shall be ostracized.

Make fun of a holy man who is adored and who is sacred for millions of people -> you're held by all the politicians and medias as the hero and the champion of the so called "freedom of speech".

[Weckerz 3,781]

Yeah, Dieudonné has been condemned many times by courts — the same courts that refused to respond to the accusations that some muslims associations have made toward some french medias, because those medias published caricatures of Mahomet. Double standard.

Say something or make fun against someone or something that happens to be jew -> you're the brand new Hitler and you shall be ostracized.

Make fun of a holy man who is adored and who is sacred for millions of people -> you're held by all the politicians and medias as the hero and the champion of the so called "freedom of speech".

Yea I'm sure a Front National combattant makes fun of people that 'happen to be jews', give me a break.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

If you understood what Front National embodies and how fascism is discretely but surely creeping back in to society you wouldn't shrug it off so easily as nonsense.

The question is wether Anelka knew about what the salute is perceived as by the general public, something you'd assume he does, seeing he is close friends with the man who popularized the gesture in his country.

I am not shrugging it off by any means. I said the world is full of terrorists and racists whom we need to combat erase from our societies. But it is never that black or white. Labelling someone who is antizionist as antisemitic is the same as labeling Obama a communist for wanting to implement healthcare for example or Madella a terrorist for opposing US and British plans...etc

Using the rising of facism as excuse to suppress any antizionist, antiemperialist, antiestablishment...etc criticisms or any political ideas that differs from the media propaganda induced general consensus is just another face of facism.

[Weckerz 3,781]

I am not shrugging it off by any means. I said the world is full of terrorists and racists whom we need to combat erase from our societies. But it is never that black or white. Labelling someone who is antizionist as antisemitic is the same as labeling Obama a communist for wanting to implement healthcare for example or Madella a terrorist for opposing US and British plans...etc

Using the rising of facism as excuse to suppress any antizionist, antiemperialist, antiestablishment...etc criticisms or any political ideas that differs from the media propaganda induced general consensus is just another face of facism.

Using the rise of fascism as an excuse? Not sure I follow and I haven't made any excuses. I'm not sure why you're overcomplifying things by bringing up these Mandela or Obama examples either.

It's rather simple, the man is close with Front National, a disgrace of a far right racist party, that's not a grey area, that's pitch black.

Now I realise this is about Diedonne now rather than Anelka, you can still question his knowledge of the gesture, I for one don't believe he wasn't aware.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Using the rise of fascism as an excuse? Not sure I follow and I haven't made any excuses. I'm not sure why you're overcomplifying things by bringing up these Mandela or Obama examples either.

It's rather simple, the man is close with Front National, a disgrace of a far right racist party, that's not a grey area, that's pitch black.

Now I realise this is about Diedonne now rather than Anelka, you can still question his knowledge of the gesture, I for one don't believe he wasn't aware.

Not you using the excuse, politicians. It is not simple at all and the Mandella and Obama examples are exactly like this case: Just because someone opposes or supports something that someone terrorist or facist group opposes or supports does not make that someone a terrorist or facist himself.

To make this easier let me try to make the examples simpler. Some terrorists oppose the US foreign policy and commit terrorist acts against the US. Mandella opposes the US foreign policies because they hurt his people and country. That does not make Mandella a terrorist even if he shares an "enemy" with some terrorists. But still, the US puts Mandella on the list of terrorists and treat him the same as the terrorists that bomb civilians in order to suppress his ideas and kill his cause because equality and getting rid of discrimination goes against the US best interest in that region.

Same applies here. Antisemitic people hate Zionism because (on the surface) it concerns Jews. Anelka hates Zionism because of all the horrible things zionists have done and continue to do in the world and especially the Middle East. So Anelka does a gesture that is defined by who created it as antizionist and antiestablishment gesture. Some of the antisemitic people also do the gesture because they hate Zionism as well. That does not make that gesture antisemitic nor does it make Anelka so. Of course he should not be making it on a football pitch but that's another discussion. And just like Mandella was labelled as a terrorist, Anelkas friend is labeled as antisemitic by the French courts because it is in the best interest of some powerful lobbies that the ideas criticising Zionism and behind them the oil and weapons companies and ultimately imperialism are suppressed and stripped of any moral appeal.

[Melanicus 5,208]

He did not know that this gesture was anti-semitic because it is NOT anti-semitic. There's nothing to add — except that you people should start thinking by yourself instead of believing words coming from politicians and mainstream medias who are corrupted and under influence of some lobbies.

The vast majority (99%) of the persons labelling this gesture as anti semitic are doing so because some powerful-corrupted-evil men (Bernard-Henri Lévy, that son of bitch) in France have decided so (in order to discredit and marginalize Dieudonné and his opinions). Obviously, the mentally-dead people follow like sheeps that definition without bothering to try to understand by themselves.

If I may, I think the issue that bushman (and even LDN) we're trying to make is that: Who determines what is recognized as antisemitic and what is not?

There are a lot of gray areas just like there is with racism, homophobia...etc There are also quite a lot of entangled areas. On the surface, Zionism is about Jews and often Zionism is synonymous with the establishment (oil and weapons companies) but being antiestablishment does not make you antisemitic.

Politicians always use those gray and entangled areas to suppress opinions and causes by labeling them immoral and not "politically correct". It is strategy that is used by both left and right wings.

Nelson Mandella was on the US list of terrorists till 2008. So that makes everyone who supported his cause till that date a terrorist?

The world is unfortunately full of racists, terrorists, antisemitic people, homophobic people...etc but it is also full of people who use those tags to suppress ideas beliefs and causes.

Yeah, Dieudonné has been condemned many times by courts — the same courts that refused to respond to the accusations that some muslims associations have made toward some french medias, because those medias published caricatures of Mahomet. Double standard.

Say something or make fun against someone or something that happens to be jew -> you're the brand new Hitler and you shall be ostracized.

Make fun of a holy man who is adored and who is sacred for millions of people -> you're held by all the politicians and medias as the hero and the champion of the so called "freedom of speech".

This is pure gold.

Zionist pussies have a lot of money and good positions in politics. They are afraid for their fat ugly asses and take advantage of discrimination that is positive for them and is going on around the world right now (with gays, women, Jews etc). They destroy every opponent by crying that everyone who is against them is being Nazi based on WW2 history with Jews. This is spread by western, European&USA media, whose assholes are being licked by Israel. I think it's a fucking shame to use history of your ancestors who died during war against real Nazis to keep your ugly fat ass in the good position.

[Weckerz 3,781]

Not you using the excuse, politicians. It is not simple at all and the Mandella and Obama examples are exactly like this case: Just because someone opposes or supports something that someone terrorist or facist group opposes or supports does not make that someone a terrorist or facist himself.

To make this easier let me try to make the examples simpler. Some terrorists oppose the US foreign policy and commit terrorist acts against the US. Mandella opposes the US foreign policies because they hurt his people and country. That does not make Mandella a terrorist even if he shares an "enemy" with some terrorists. But still, the US puts Mandella on the list of terrorists and treat him the same as the terrorists that bomb civilians in order to suppress his ideas and kill his cause because equality and getting rid of discrimination goes against the US best interest in that region.

Same applies here. Antisemitic people hate Zionism because (on the surface) it concerns Jews. Anelka hates Zionism because of all the horrible things zionists have done and continue to do in the world and especially the Middle East. So Anelka does a gesture that is defined by who created it as antizionist and antiestablishment gesture. Some of the antisemitic people also do the gesture because they hate Zionism as well. That does not make that gesture antisemitic nor does it make Anelka so. Of course he should not be making it on a football pitch but that's another discussion. And just like Mandella was labelled as a terrorist, Anelkas friend is labeled as antisemitic by the French courts because it is in the best interest of some powerful lobbies that the ideas criticising Zionism and behind them the oil and weapons companies and ultimately imperialism are suppressed and stripped of any moral appeal.

Jesus Christ, how did we end up discussing Antisemitism vs zionism, muslims vs jews, lebanon vs Israel, whatever you want to call it?

He's close friends with a blatant racist, yea racist, wether he is antizionist or anti-establishment as well I don't give a fudge. FN, NV-A, PVV, they're all nazi-collaborator nests, manipulating the population with hate and intolerance.

It's obvious it's me versus the rest here so I'm ending this discussion. It makes me sick.