Politics & Stuff

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,770]

12 hours ago, robsblubot said:

If being supportive of the existence of Israel, their right to live, is being a "Zionist" then count me in. The time to discuss their right to be there, to exist, is now irrelevant. So, I pretty much disagree with most opinions here around that. I also suspect the US president has little leeway here, regardless of political affiliation.

Regarding the immigration talking point from the GOP, as usual, they are lying via whatever the fuck Fox News is.
Jobs, esp low-paying, are (and have been for a while) being replaced left, right and center by automation, not immigrants. Cashiers here in my state are mostly gone in the big chain stores. Things will only accelerate with AI esp once that reaches drivers (truck drivers as well). I'm actually curious about what politicians will lie about then.

Don't get me wrong, rampant uncontrolled immigration creates a lot of different problems, homelessness being the most obvious one. Homelessness, I feel, is where the democrats are most vulnerable. Their policies do not work at all at the regional level. I've worked in San Francisco for years--not exactly in downtown, but close enough to see quite a bit.

I'd imagine you are on the older end too though. The TikTok generation isnt being counted in supporting an apartheid state same way in the 80's it was mostly the younger people who figured it wasnt acceptable in South Africa any longer.

Biden pretty much loses young excitement by being, what even a man in his 30's like me can see, on the wrong side of history. In 2004 we didnt have social media to see war crimes live in action the way we can see civilians being killed today. It changes things.

Agreed on the San Francisco point, although they have tried to adopt some tougher on crime stances recently. That should help a bit.

[Fulham Broadway 16,444]

Israel has 'donated' 4 million and 10 million respectively to Labour and Tory parties. Replicate that to other European countries and all the lobbying and 'Friends of Israel' cross party groups with their all expenses holidays, and you begin to see why the silence over slaughter, children with heads blown off, legs and arms amputated with no anaesthetic or even water, children dying of starvation yesterday.

In the US the lobbying is even more intense and although Jews make up less than 2% of the population they comprise of every senior position in the Biden administration except Secretary of Defense. Blinken, Wendy Sherman, Victoria Nuland, Eric Lander, CIA director, Ron Klain, Avri Haines, Alejandro Mayorkas, Merrick Garland, Janet Yellen. 

US taxpayers whether they like it or not,  have given $270 billion to Israel for weapons

[lucio 5,418]

46 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Israel has 'donated' 4 million and 10 million respectively to Labour and Tory parties. Replicate that to other European countries and all the lobbying and 'Friends of Israel' cross party groups with their all expenses holidays, and you begin to see why the silence over slaughter, children with heads blown off, legs and arms amputated with no anaesthetic or even water, children dying of starvation yesterday.

In the US the lobbying is even more intense and although Jews make up less than 2% of the population they comprise of every senior position in the Biden administration except Secretary of Defense. Blinken, Wendy Sherman, Victoria Nuland, Eric Lander, CIA director, Ron Klain, Avri Haines, Alejandro Mayorkas, Merrick Garland, Janet Yellen. 

US taxpayers whether they like it or not,  have given $270 billion to Israel for weapons

You can’t point out facts , that’s anti Semitic 

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,770]

47 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Israel has 'donated' 4 million and 10 million respectively to Labour and Tory parties. Replicate that to other European countries and all the lobbying and 'Friends of Israel' cross party groups with their all expenses holidays, and you begin to see why the silence over slaughter, children with heads blown off, legs and arms amputated with no anaesthetic or even water, children dying of starvation yesterday.

In the US the lobbying is even more intense and although Jews make up less than 2% of the population they comprise of every senior position in the Biden administration except Secretary of Defense. Blinken, Wendy Sherman, Victoria Nuland, Eric Lander, CIA director, Ron Klain, Avri Haines, Alejandro Mayorkas, Merrick Garland, Janet Yellen. 

US taxpayers whether they like it or not,  have given $270 billion to Israel for weapons

I have no doubt that all the Jewish people in his administration are competent and have earned their roles. They usually have to be to get in those roles in America, but we also dont need to be funding another countries genocide.

 

[robsblubot 3,263]

8 hours ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

I'd imagine you are on the older end too though. The TikTok generation isnt being counted in supporting an apartheid state same way in the 80's it was mostly the younger people who figured it wasnt acceptable in South Africa any longer.

Biden pretty much loses young excitement by being, what even a man in his 30's like me can see, on the wrong side of history. In 2004 we didnt have social media to see war crimes live in action the way we can see civilians being killed today. It changes things.

Agreed on the San Francisco point, although they have tried to adopt some tougher on crime stances recently. That should help a bit.

Not only older, but actually have been to Israel for work a couple of times. I've experienced how people leave, what their fears are. I also consider history: like the number of times they've been attacked since the state has been established. I admit bias, but not complete ignorance.
I think it's pretty obvious that without support Israel would cease to exist. If that's the solution you agree with, I think it's the time to agree to disagree and move on.

7 hours ago, lucio said:

You can’t point out facts , that’s anti Semitic 

This thread is very one-sided. "facts" show up for one side only, and then when, and if debunked, this thread goes quiet. There is plenty of blame to go around esp when you actually consider Israel is hardly the only oppressor in the region.
BTW, being an atheist (was at 15yo) makes any religious reasoning from either side moot in my view, which makes the whole conflict really stupid to my eyes.

This is what's missing IMO:
“there is no contradiction between staunchly opposing the Israeli subjugation and occupation of Palestinians and unequivocally condemning brutal acts of violence against innocent civilians. In fact, every consistent leftist must hold both positions simultaneously.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/24/yuval-noah-harari-backs-critique-of-leftist-indifference-to-hamas-atrocities 

Edited March 7 by robsblubot

[KEVINAA 57]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/07/sweden-joins-nato-after-ratification-hungary-drops-opposition

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/07/sweden-formally-joins-nato-military-alliance-ending-decades-of-neutrality.html

These are articles posted in the last 60 minutes. I haven't read them. Just looked for the last 1 hour articles.

@Vesper they have publicly announced now your country Sweden has joined NATO

 

 

 

Edited March 7 by KEVINAA

[YorkshireBlue 2,853]

On 05/03/2024 at 19:16, cosmicway said:

Immigration ...
Again.
What is an immigrant ?
An immigrant is a person with two arms, two legs, two heads.
An immigrant can be a nuclear scientist (Oppenheimer) or someone who sells sunglasses and lighters in the high street.
He is just a person.
But if you were an immigrant what would annoy you most ?

a) the extreme racists, fascists and apartheidists
b) the so called "defense" on your behalf by the reds, felllowtravelers, glass breaking anarchist groups.

For me it's the (b).
In the long game It's what makes you an endangered species and not the nutcase rightwinger.

Simple question, would you let an unvetted male migrant into your house with your wife and kids so they had some where to stay? I have no problem with immigration, aslong as your legal and we know who you are and what you can offer, easy to let people in, but where do you put them once they are here.

[cosmicway 1,263]

7 minutes ago, YorkshireBlue said:

Simple question, would you let an unvetted male migrant into your house with your wife and kids so they had some where to stay? I have no problem with immigration, aslong as your legal and we know who you are and what you can offer, easy to let people in, but where do you put them once they are here.

You are making dramatics out of it influenced by William Rees-Mogg stuff you read - or Mussolini-Hirohito, I don't know.
Anyway put your shoes in the other man's feet, that's what I 'm doing.

Edited March 7 by cosmicway

[lucio 5,418]

54 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

You are making dramatics out of it influenced by William Rees-Mogg stuff you read - or Mussolini-Hirohito, I don't know.
Anyway put your shoes in the other man's feet, that's what I 'm doing.

They are supposed to be running a country not a charity. Exposing women and children to random 3rd world men is unacceptable. There have already been countless deaths because of this , western people are not collateral damage. 

[cosmicway 1,263]

1 minute ago, lucio said:

They are supposed to be running a country not a charity. Exposing women and children to random 3rd world men is unacceptable. There have already been countless deaths because of this , western people are not collateral damage. 

He also supports Hamas in Israel. Mighty strange.
But let's play this game the other way.
Suppose I am a giant economist and I have been invited by none other than Rishi Sunak, to fix brexit.
This he fancies and he says it's ok.
Evidently I won't be associating with the mill and throng but suppose something happens. A Breivik type individual spots me in the street and shoots me dead, just because my accent is not to his liking.
So he does n't think of the other people, only garbles Daily Mail stuff.

[lucio 5,418]

8 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

He also supports Hamas in Israel. Mighty strange.
But let's play this game the other way.
Suppose I am a giant economist and I have been invited by none other than Rishi Sunak, to fix brexit.
This he fancies and he says it's ok.
Evidently I won't be associating with the mill and throng but suppose something happens. A Breivik type individual spots me in the street and shoots me dead, just because my accent is not to his liking.
So he does n't think of the other people, only garbles Daily Mail stuff.

Who supports Hamas ? I’m not following 

[cosmicway 1,263]

2 minutes ago, lucio said:

 I’m not following 

Καλά, στρίβειν διά του αρραβώνος.

[robsblubot 3,263]

28 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Καλά, στρίβειν διά του αρραβώνος.

still not following? 😆

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,770]

2 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Not only older, but actually have been to Israel for work a couple of times. I've experienced how people leave, what their fears are. I also consider history: like the number of times they've been attacked since the state has been established. I admit bias, but not complete ignorance.
I think it's pretty obvious that without support Israel would cease to exist. If that's the solution you agree with, I think it's the time to agree to disagree and move on.

I didnt know you were jewish bro. Shalom 😎

I'd want the natives of Israel, and the people they displaced, to live in a free state together. I wouldn't view it as ceasing to exist anymore than South Africa stopped existing with the fall of apartheid and return of majority rule. I'd like to think of it becoming something more, or better, than what it is.

[cosmicway 1,263]

1 minute ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

I didnt know you were jewish bro. Shalom 😎

I'd want the natives of Israel, and the people they displaced, to live in a free state together. I wouldn't view it as ceasing to exist anymore than South Africa stopped existing with the fall of apartheid and return of majority rule. I'd like to think of it becoming something more, or better, than what it is.

Jews and Arabs hate eah other for centuries.
Jews and Christians also, only Christians modified their ways.
In the same neighbourhood there are two parallel histories, Arabs and Jews, Greece and Turkey, differing only in the way the Americans handle them.
I don't fancy them getting together.
Furthemore if you are a Palesitinian who favours peaceful settlement, you are a dead Palestinian an a couple of hours.

[robsblubot 3,263]

14 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

I didnt know you were jewish bro. Shalom 😎

I'd want the natives of Israel, and the people they displaced, to live in a free state together. I wouldn't view it as ceasing to exist anymore than South Africa stopped existing with the fall of apartheid and return of majority rule. I'd like to think of it becoming something more, or better, than what it is.

No, I'm not Jewish. 😃 Shalom tho. Worked for an Israeli company based in Tel-aviv for several years. I've met a lot of good people both here in the US and in Israel, while I also found one or two people I've met/worked with a bit on the extreme side.

People have been displaced since human beings walked on earth. People don't keep banging their heads against walls for generations thereafter tho; Israel is attacked, responds with extreme force rinse and repeat (seen all this before). I think we can't ignore religion here though, which is where I just roll my eyes and go do something else.
 

[Vesper 27,436]

8 hours ago, KEVINAA said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/07/sweden-joins-nato-after-ratification-hungary-drops-opposition

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/07/sweden-formally-joins-nato-military-alliance-ending-decades-of-neutrality.html

These are articles posted in the last 60 minutes. I haven't read them. Just looked for the last 1 hour articles.

@Vesper they have publicly announced now your country Sweden has joined NATO

 

 

 

 

[cosmicway 1,263]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

 

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