Politics & Stuff

[cosmicway 1,261]

THE INFORMATION AGE AND MODERN GOVERNMENT
-------------------------------------------------------------
The beginning of the information age in the eighties was strange.
We, common folks, had access to various simple machines such as Commodore, Pet, Oric, Lynx ... and could do various computer jobs.
But the state had nothing !
I used to go to places such as the tax authority offices and the post office and they were usings scraps of paper or little notebooks - like the little gift notebooks from the pharmacy shops.
I used to say to them "hey, you dummies what are you doing here ? buy an Oric Atmos" and they were looking at me quite perplexed.
At the same time in the Soviet Union and satelittes they did n't like this at all. How we managed to lag 50 years behind the west they were saying.
That was some 5-6 years before the collapse of the Soviet Union.

But the Soviet communist faithfuls were saying "don't worry - the state will own the new technology sooner or later".
Their prediction was wrong and correct at the same time.
Soviet Union was into a downward spiral from which they never emerged, but the state as such regained the initiative, eventually.

Nowadays we are all into big brother's eyesights.
If we bought a sack of potatoes without a tax receipt we are caught and fined 5000-10000 for it.
The left wing no brainers applaud - they think big brother is their friend.
Ok, wait and see ...

[robsblubot 3,253]

11 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Where is Kate?

and more importantly, is she still bangable?

[cosmicway 1,261]

13 hours ago, robsblubot said:

and more importantly, is she still bangable?

I had a polyp the size of a tennis ball.
Looked like a big mushroom rather.
They removed after a three and a half hour operation.
But five days later I was hopping about.
It was 26 of April when the op took place. On May the 1st the doctor comes and says "beat it, go home".  Then he returns and says "fiddlesticks - it's bank holiday, we can give no exits" - so I left hospital the 2nd of May.
I had lost weight but I could do what I liked, eat sausages, pizzas ...
Also in the same room at the hospital was an old man with a similar condition and he too walked out in a few days.
So this one with Kate, after a succesful op as they say, is strange.

[cosmicway 1,261]

Why does Putin go for the 87% in the "elections" whereas Stalin favoured the 99.99% ?
Alternatively why did n't Stalin like the 87% but insisted on 99.99% ?

[Vesper 27,378]

[Vesper 27,378]

There Goes Trump, Seething At American Jews Again

Trump says if Jews vote for Democrats they hate THEIR RELIGION.

https://www.wonkette.com/p/there-goes-trump-seething-at-american

CONTENT NOTE: If you came here to fight about Israel and Gaza, GTFO. Wait, is that how “content notes” work?

In 2022, Donald Trump Truth-Social-tweeted that “Jews have to get their act together and appreciate what they have in Israel — Before it is too late!” This, just after saying that “our wonderful Evangelicals” are far more appreciative of what he’s done for Israel than those ungrateful Jews.

In 2023, Trump rang in Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish new year, by posting a meme calling American Jews “sheep” and encouraging them to “make better choices going forward.” The meme asked what kind of “Natzi” had done all the things for Israel that Trump had, demonstrating yet again Team Trump’s spelling skills. Of course, Trump’s “accomplishments” that were supposed to impress American Jews were largely a laundry list of things he did in Israel for both Jewish and Christian extremists. (Moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, support for illegal settlements, etc.)

He has referred to Israel as “your country” when referring to American Jews, invoking that age-old antisemitic dual loyalty canard.

In 2019, he said in the Oval Office that “any Jewish people who would vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty.”

Which sounds a lot like the wildly antisemitic thing Trump said yesterday on his pet Sebastian Gorka’s radio show. (You know, the guy with all the Hungarian Nazi friends.)

 

 

Gorka fake-innocently asked Trump why Democrats hate Benjamin Netanyahu. (Much like most Israelis hate Netanyahu, even more so after October 7.) He was talking about how a number of prominent Democrats in the US — like Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, who last week called for new elections in Israel once the war starts winding down, and President Joe Biden, who has signaled support for Schumer since he made those comments — seem to be publicly reaching the end of their ropes with Bibi, who most people agree is authoritarian garbage.

In response, Trump went on one of his verbal benders, which he began by declaring that “I actually think they hate Israel.” After many long babblings, Trump reached his climax: “Any Jewish person that votes for Democrats hates their religion, they hate everything about Israel, and they should be ashamed of themselves!”

Oh, how Trump seethes at American Jews.

Trump further declared that Schumer, the top-ranking Jewish person in all of American government, is “very anti-Israel now,” and that he’s only saying these things because of the people in “those Palestinian marches.”

Trump says and does wildly antisemitic things a lot. This is after all the man who looked America in the face in 2017 and said there were good people “on both sides” of the Charlottesville Nazi march where his supporters screamed, “Jews will not replace us!”

But Trump and his Republican allies largely traffic in a certain kind of antisemitism, the kind reflected in the Trump quotes at the top of this post, the casual kind that’s most popular with white conservative evangelicals, who love Israel much the way Jeffrey Epstein loved America’s youth. Trump and Republican evangelicals, plus ultra-conservative Jewish people like Ben Shapiro who give them cover, love the trope that if you don’t support their extremist counterparts in Israel — AKA Netanyahu, the far-right extremists that have hijacked the Israeli government, extremist settlers — then you are either a Bad Jew, an Ungrateful Jew, or not any kind of real Jew at all.

To be extremely clear, they’re talking about most Jewish Americans, who vote Democratic by super-majorities, 70 percent for Joe Biden in 2020.

They think they get to tell most Jewish Americans that they “hate their religion,” due to their ungrateful lack of support for Trump and Republicans.

So, like clockwork, now that we’ve gotten to the point that Biden and Schumer and other similarly ideologically positioned Democrats are saying out loud that Bibi is a motherfucker, here come the Republicans, picking up with their antisemitism against most American Jews, for not Jewish-ing correctly. Mitch McConnell reared back on his decaying turtle shell to call Schumer’s comments “grotesque.”

Their leader, after all, is this vile bigot who eats dinner with Nazis, who talks like a Nazi, and who keeps talking like a Nazi even when you directly show him that he sounds like Hitler.

Trump’s campaign responded to the latest controversy with a statement from press secretary Karoline Leavitt, who said, “President Trump is right — the Democrat Party has turned into a full-blown anti-Israel, anti-Semitic, pro-terrorist cabal.” You know, in case any fence-sitters need a reminder how Trump really feels about things.

Schumer responded to all of this like an adult, obviously. White House spox Andrew Bates told the Washington Post that there’s “no justification for spreading toxic, false stereotypes that threaten fellow citizens. None.” Furthermore:

“Like President Biden said, he was moved to run for President when he saw Neo Nazis chanting ‘the same Antisemitic bile that was heard in Germany in the 1930s’ in Charlottesville,” Bates added. “Leaders have an obligation to call hate what it is and bring Americans together against it.”

We’ll let Democratic Rep. Jamie Raskin have the last word: "Luckily I don't know any Jews who look to Donald Trump for advice on how to be Jewish.”

The end.

 

[cosmicway 1,261]

Trumpism is a strange cult.
When I was younger it was the commies and the hippies, the enemies of the state - according to the conservatives at least.
There were also the apartheidists in the southern states and in South Africa, but this thing looked just bizarre to us whether we were conservatives or fellow traveling pinkos.
Nowadays people believe in all sorts of strange things.
The antivaxers top the bill.




 

This one was the aspiring leader of the antivaxers political party:




George Tragas.
Strange figure.
Back in 1986 he was a newspaper editor and I had a conversation with him about the Cernobyl accident.
Looked very intelligent. He said to me "we must n't blame the new Soviet leader Michael Gorbatchev for it - it was n't his fault and the man is really trying to reform the system".
That was in Gorbatchev's very early days. I had no idea and he surprised me.
Then the man, Tragas, started embracing one strange cause after the other.
Why ? For money obviously.
In 2021 he wanted to start the antivaxers party but he himself got covid and died from it !
Left everything to his son. Ten-twerty-thirty luxury homes, in Greece, Germany, England, Beverly Hills, Chicago, Manhattan ...
All from black money - could n't be justified.
The son had to disown the will, or he was going to go to prison.

Edited March 20 by cosmicway

[MoroccanBlue 5,209]

Americans are frustrated. 

Inflation.

Cost of living.

Affordable housing. 

 

3 important things yet the government's main priority is foreign aid and false promises. The American people want a candidate that'll make those 3 a priority above else. 

[manpe 10,857]

14 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Americans are frustrated. 

Inflation.

Cost of living.

Affordable housing. 

 

3 important things yet the government's main priority is foreign aid and false promises. The American people want a candidate that'll make those 3 a priority above else. 

Sounds very similar to Estonia (or almost any western country for that matter). We have donated the most to Ukraine per GDP, consistently have one of the highest inflations in EU, cost of living and housing is through the roof, government constantly backtracks on its promises and raises/creates new taxes. I guarantee if this shit was happening in e.g. France or USA, the streets would be burning. And our PM has the nerve to accuse the people of making the economic situation worse because "we whine too much"... As if burning the streets down and striking all the time would do wonders to the economy. Instead we spread our asscheeks and take it, because that's how we are, the least we should be allowed to do is complain a little bit. 🖕

Anyway, just wanted to vent. 😄 Politicians are scum. 

[Vesper 27,378]

What Really Happened on October 7?

And why, wonders a new Al Jazeera documentary, did the media go to such lengths to concoct gruesome X-rated versions of an attack that was harrowing enough to begin with?

https://prospect.org/world/2024-03-20-what-really-happened-on-october-7/

The battle-scarred home in Kibbutz Be’eri, in Israel near the Gaza border, where Hamas held more than a dozen hostages when it overran southern Israel on October 7, 2023

 

It’s October 7, 2023, a few minutes before 7 a.m. A gang of Hamas fighters in a stolen pickup drives up upon a roadside bomb shelter crammed with maybe two dozen terrified ravers. One shoots off maybe seven bullets into the shelter, when another concocts a different plan. “That one is alive! That one, pull him by his hair!” he yells at his comrades, who dump a blood-streaked body into the back of the truck. “Don’t kill them, we need them as hostages,” the fighter yells at the others, as if he has just remembered, a dozen dead bodies too late, what he was supposed to do in the unthinkable circumstance he hadn’t been shot dead yet. They begin piling partygoers, limp but still alive, into the truck.

The footage is from the body camera of a dead Hamas fighter obtained by Al Jazeera International, whose journalists Israel has repeatedly assassinated and which the Netanyahu government has been threatening to shutter for the past five months for allegedly “acting as [a] megaphone for Hamas’s military, operational, and propaganda messages.” But the Qatari investigative news agency’s new documentary October 7, which premiered this morning on YouTube, seems distinctly disinterested in preaching to the anti-Zionist choir.

More from Maureen Tkacik

The Hamas portrayed in Al Jazeera’s tightly curated selection of footage swiftly disables the radar and communications towers, breaches the border fence, and seizes a dozen military bases—“We went into every corner and with our pure feet we stepped into every single hiding place, and there were no men to fight us,” one remarks, dumbfounded—only to spend the rest of the morning wandering around aimlessly, like a video game kid who doesn’t know what to do with himself now that he’s finally beaten the game. “They really don’t seem to know what exactly what they’re doing,” a military analyst observes, watching two fighters squabble with one another and raid the corpse of a dead colleague for extra ammunition. Whatever is responsible for the eerie, implausible absence of meaningful Israeli military resistance in the early hours of the attack—and October 7 echoes earlier reports in speculating that misogyny likely played a role—it does not seem to be the strategic genius of Hamas.

The Israeli regime and its noxious mouthpieces in Washington have spouted so many lies about what Hamas did on October 7 that the conversation is often driven toward rebutting the charges that the group “beheaded 30 babies” or sliced a four-month-old fetus out of a dead woman, or gouged the eyes and breast out of a mother and father before moving on to the fingers and toes of the son and daughter they executed at an invaded kibbutz, as Secretary of State Antony Blinken testified before Congress in the weeks after the attack.

But as October 7 shows, just because those claims were false doesn’t mean Hamas covered themselves in glory. They left a pile of dead bodies on the Nova festival stage before swiping what looked like a doughnut from a gas station convenience store, firing semiautomatic weapons randomly into car windows and port-a-potties, and killing more than three dozen Thai guest workers, though one who describes to Al Jazeera being dragged past a room full of his murdered colleagues suggests Gazan civilians led his particular abduction. “Hamas fighters committed crimes on October 7,” the narrator points out. “The Israeli media, however, focuses not on the crimes Hamas committed, but on crimes they did not.”

Hamas had some rockets, but did it really have the weaponry capable of mounting this level of destruction? Western journalists have reported that Hamas was fully responsible.

Indeed, it is almost as though the Israelis channeled all of the efficiency and efficacy that failed their military on October 7 into the deployment of a vast edifice of insta-mythology designed to bolster a notion of Palestinians as an inherently subhuman people. Chief of this project is a man named Yossi Landau, an ultra-Orthodox first responder who operates throughout Israel and, occasionally, in South Florida. Landau, who is interviewed in the documentary, was the original source of the beheaded babies lie, and most of what formed the basis for the New York Times’ debunked investigation into the alleged systematic sexual abuse perpetrated by Hamas on October 7, among other enthusiastically shared tales of horror.

In interviews, Landau comes off like the used-car salesman you’d expect. Discussing one claim about finding a pregnant woman whose “stomach was butchered open” and whose “baby that was connected to the cord was stabbed,” he insists to a reporter that “if you want to see the picture I have the picture of it.” When the reporter apologizes that he “can’t see a baby here,” Landau stammers that he “didn’t think when we were, we didn’t think, we didn’t think to camera everything …”

The photo, it turns out, depicts what the narrator describes as “an unidentifiable piece of charred flesh,” which as it happens is not so unlike many of the bodies that fill Landau’s accounts of unspeakable depravity. “The bodies is telling us the stories that happened to them,” he explains in one video. As October 7 notes, the IDF has repeatedly debunked those stories on the basis of basic forensic evidence, most notably when it revised downward by 200 its estimated body count upon realizing some of the dead bodies are Palestinian.

Which brings us to one of the incomprehensibly less-scrutinized parts of the disaster explored in October 7: the hundreds of civilians, dozens of their cars, and numerous homes and buildings charred beyond comprehension on the day of the attack. Hamas had some rockets, but did it really have the weaponry capable of mounting this level of destruction? Western journalists have reported that Hamas was fully responsible. Al Jazeera’s documentary is much more circumspect, and in a way, so is the IDF.

By November, the IDF conceded that it had, actually, deployed Apache helicopters and tanks to the Nova music festival that “may” have killed “some” of the Nova festival concertgoers, in accordance with something called the Hannibal Directive, a doctrine named for a Carthaginian general who poisoned himself rather than be questioned by his Roman captors, whereby the Israeli army is ordered to fire upon its own troops to prevent the enemy from taking those troops hostage. Around noon on October 7, according to Israeli newspapers cited in the documentary, the IDF may have invoked a version of the Hannibal directive, expanded to include Israeli civilians, and in accordance began blindly opening fire with rockets and helicopter gunships on any person or vehicle seen moving across the border with Gaza. In particular, the documentary visits Kibbutz Be’eri, which looks a bit like present-day Gaza in parts, with a munitions expert who demonstrates strong evidence that some of the houses had been hit with IDF tank fire. It was Israeli troops, not Hamas “murderers,” according to one resident, who killed 12 longtime residents there.

Virtually all these facts have been reported widely by the left-leaning media outlets; October 7 mostly synthesizes these accounts with compelling footage, helpful maps of the region, and a minute-by-minute timeline that compellingly conveys a sense of the panic and alarm the unprecedented breach unleashed on both sides of the conflict. What remains elusive, however, is a sense of what proportion of the 782 unarmed civilians who died in southern Israel that day were killed by “friendly” Hellfire missiles and IDF bullets, and how many were killed by Hamas fighters. Israel has refused to release any forensic evidence on the dead it has identified, and it is likely in many cases that none exists; ZAKA and other ultra-Orthodox organizations delegated to examine and collect the bodies of the 10/7 dead are staunchly opposed to medical examinations on religious grounds, and ZAKA further recommended that Nova festivalgoers be buried in their cars.

We may never know the portion of civilian deaths attributable to the Israeli counterattacks, though the IDF does. But October 7 wisely steers clear of engaging in such reasoning, since the whole point of the movie is that the fiction of October 7 matters far more than the fact. And regardless of what the true figure is, within three or four days of disseminating the fiction that Hamas had killed 1,400 Israelis in a single morning, Israel had exceeded that death count in Gaza, just as the Gaza-born journalist Ahmed Alnaouq knew it would upon hearing the terrible news of the attack.

“When October 7 happened I was terrified, because whenever an Israeli man [is] killed, they’re gonna kill a hundred or two hundred Palestinians,” he tells the interviewer, voicing the heartbreaking math of Palestinian resistance. Here again, the documentary shows restraint, placing the death count in the Gaza war thus far at the conservative estimate of 31,000 with no discussion of, for example, the impact Israel’s destruction of some 155 Gazan hospitals and health facilities has had on the effort to count the dead. The documentary cuts to Azzam Tamimi, an older man, the author of the definitive book on Hamas, who chillingly invokes the millions who perished during the Vietnam War to suggest that the bloodbath may yet be worth it, reasoning that “there is no small price for freedom and independence.” Alnaouq is not so sure: Whatever the ultimate meaning of October 7, the aftermath has already proven, he says, “a trauma that the Palestinians will never heal from.

 

 

”Israel admits it killed its own at Nova music festival

https://thecradle.co/articles-id/13111

 

 

'Unlawful, Unethical, Horrifying': IDF Ethics Code Author on Alleged Use of 'Hannibal Directive' During Hamas Attack

Asa Kasher, the philosopher who wrote the IDF's Code of Conduct, tells Haaretz that incidents in which the infamous operational order may have been used on October 7 must be investigated immediately: 'There is absolutely nothing [in the code] to allow someone to kill an Israeli citizen, in uniform or not'

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-17/ty-article/.premium/unlawful-unethical-horrifying-idf-ethics-expert-on-controversial-hannibal-directive/0000018d-186c-dd75-addd-faedd2b80000

[Fulham Broadway 16,423]

5 minutes ago, Vesper said:

What Really Happened on October 7?

And why, wonders a new Al Jazeera documentary, did the media go to such lengths to concoct gruesome X-rated versions of an attack that was harrowing enough to begin with?

https://prospect.org/world/2024-03-20-what-really-happened-on-october-7/

The battle-scarred home in Kibbutz Be’eri, in Israel near the Gaza border, where Hamas held more than a dozen hostages when it overran southern Israel on October 7, 2023

 

It’s October 7, 2023, a few minutes before 7 a.m. A gang of Hamas fighters in a stolen pickup drives up upon a roadside bomb shelter crammed with maybe two dozen terrified ravers. One shoots off maybe seven bullets into the shelter, when another concocts a different plan. “That one is alive! That one, pull him by his hair!” he yells at his comrades, who dump a blood-streaked body into the back of the truck. “Don’t kill them, we need them as hostages,” the fighter yells at the others, as if he has just remembered, a dozen dead bodies too late, what he was supposed to do in the unthinkable circumstance he hadn’t been shot dead yet. They begin piling partygoers, limp but still alive, into the truck.

The footage is from the body camera of a dead Hamas fighter obtained by Al Jazeera International, whose journalists Israel has repeatedly assassinated and which the Netanyahu government has been threatening to shutter for the past five months for allegedly “acting as [a] megaphone for Hamas’s military, operational, and propaganda messages.” But the Qatari investigative news agency’s new documentary October 7, which premiered this morning on YouTube, seems distinctly disinterested in preaching to the anti-Zionist choir.

More from Maureen Tkacik

The Hamas portrayed in Al Jazeera’s tightly curated selection of footage swiftly disables the radar and communications towers, breaches the border fence, and seizes a dozen military bases—“We went into every corner and with our pure feet we stepped into every single hiding place, and there were no men to fight us,” one remarks, dumbfounded—only to spend the rest of the morning wandering around aimlessly, like a video game kid who doesn’t know what to do with himself now that he’s finally beaten the game. “They really don’t seem to know what exactly what they’re doing,” a military analyst observes, watching two fighters squabble with one another and raid the corpse of a dead colleague for extra ammunition. Whatever is responsible for the eerie, implausible absence of meaningful Israeli military resistance in the early hours of the attack—and October 7 echoes earlier reports in speculating that misogyny likely played a role—it does not seem to be the strategic genius of Hamas.

The Israeli regime and its noxious mouthpieces in Washington have spouted so many lies about what Hamas did on October 7 that the conversation is often driven toward rebutting the charges that the group “beheaded 30 babies” or sliced a four-month-old fetus out of a dead woman, or gouged the eyes and breast out of a mother and father before moving on to the fingers and toes of the son and daughter they executed at an invaded kibbutz, as Secretary of State Antony Blinken testified before Congress in the weeks after the attack.

But as October 7 shows, just because those claims were false doesn’t mean Hamas covered themselves in glory. They left a pile of dead bodies on the Nova festival stage before swiping what looked like a doughnut from a gas station convenience store, firing semiautomatic weapons randomly into car windows and port-a-potties, and killing more than three dozen Thai guest workers, though one who describes to Al Jazeera being dragged past a room full of his murdered colleagues suggests Gazan civilians led his particular abduction. “Hamas fighters committed crimes on October 7,” the narrator points out. “The Israeli media, however, focuses not on the crimes Hamas committed, but on crimes they did not.”

Hamas had some rockets, but did it really have the weaponry capable of mounting this level of destruction? Western journalists have reported that Hamas was fully responsible.

Indeed, it is almost as though the Israelis channeled all of the efficiency and efficacy that failed their military on October 7 into the deployment of a vast edifice of insta-mythology designed to bolster a notion of Palestinians as an inherently subhuman people. Chief of this project is a man named Yossi Landau, an ultra-Orthodox first responder who operates throughout Israel and, occasionally, in South Florida. Landau, who is interviewed in the documentary, was the original source of the beheaded babies lie, and most of what formed the basis for the New York Times’ debunked investigation into the alleged systematic sexual abuse perpetrated by Hamas on October 7, among other enthusiastically shared tales of horror.

In interviews, Landau comes off like the used-car salesman you’d expect. Discussing one claim about finding a pregnant woman whose “stomach was butchered open” and whose “baby that was connected to the cord was stabbed,” he insists to a reporter that “if you want to see the picture I have the picture of it.” When the reporter apologizes that he “can’t see a baby here,” Landau stammers that he “didn’t think when we were, we didn’t think, we didn’t think to camera everything …”

The photo, it turns out, depicts what the narrator describes as “an unidentifiable piece of charred flesh,” which as it happens is not so unlike many of the bodies that fill Landau’s accounts of unspeakable depravity. “The bodies is telling us the stories that happened to them,” he explains in one video. As October 7 notes, the IDF has repeatedly debunked those stories on the basis of basic forensic evidence, most notably when it revised downward by 200 its estimated body count upon realizing some of the dead bodies are Palestinian.

Which brings us to one of the incomprehensibly less-scrutinized parts of the disaster explored in October 7: the hundreds of civilians, dozens of their cars, and numerous homes and buildings charred beyond comprehension on the day of the attack. Hamas had some rockets, but did it really have the weaponry capable of mounting this level of destruction? Western journalists have reported that Hamas was fully responsible. Al Jazeera’s documentary is much more circumspect, and in a way, so is the IDF.

By November, the IDF conceded that it had, actually, deployed Apache helicopters and tanks to the Nova music festival that “may” have killed “some” of the Nova festival concertgoers, in accordance with something called the Hannibal Directive, a doctrine named for a Carthaginian general who poisoned himself rather than be questioned by his Roman captors, whereby the Israeli army is ordered to fire upon its own troops to prevent the enemy from taking those troops hostage. Around noon on October 7, according to Israeli newspapers cited in the documentary, the IDF may have invoked a version of the Hannibal directive, expanded to include Israeli civilians, and in accordance began blindly opening fire with rockets and helicopter gunships on any person or vehicle seen moving across the border with Gaza. In particular, the documentary visits Kibbutz Be’eri, which looks a bit like present-day Gaza in parts, with a munitions expert who demonstrates strong evidence that some of the houses had been hit with IDF tank fire. It was Israeli troops, not Hamas “murderers,” according to one resident, who killed 12 longtime residents there.

Virtually all these facts have been reported widely by the left-leaning media outlets; October 7 mostly synthesizes these accounts with compelling footage, helpful maps of the region, and a minute-by-minute timeline that compellingly conveys a sense of the panic and alarm the unprecedented breach unleashed on both sides of the conflict. What remains elusive, however, is a sense of what proportion of the 782 unarmed civilians who died in southern Israel that day were killed by “friendly” Hellfire missiles and IDF bullets, and how many were killed by Hamas fighters. Israel has refused to release any forensic evidence on the dead it has identified, and it is likely in many cases that none exists; ZAKA and other ultra-Orthodox organizations delegated to examine and collect the bodies of the 10/7 dead are staunchly opposed to medical examinations on religious grounds, and ZAKA further recommended that Nova festivalgoers be buried in their cars.

We may never know the portion of civilian deaths attributable to the Israeli counterattacks, though the IDF does. But October 7 wisely steers clear of engaging in such reasoning, since the whole point of the movie is that the fiction of October 7 matters far more than the fact. And regardless of what the true figure is, within three or four days of disseminating the fiction that Hamas had killed 1,400 Israelis in a single morning, Israel had exceeded that death count in Gaza, just as the Gaza-born journalist Ahmed Alnaouq knew it would upon hearing the terrible news of the attack.

“When October 7 happened I was terrified, because whenever an Israeli man [is] killed, they’re gonna kill a hundred or two hundred Palestinians,” he tells the interviewer, voicing the heartbreaking math of Palestinian resistance. Here again, the documentary shows restraint, placing the death count in the Gaza war thus far at the conservative estimate of 31,000 with no discussion of, for example, the impact Israel’s destruction of some 155 Gazan hospitals and health facilities has had on the effort to count the dead. The documentary cuts to Azzam Tamimi, an older man, the author of the definitive book on Hamas, who chillingly invokes the millions who perished during the Vietnam War to suggest that the bloodbath may yet be worth it, reasoning that “there is no small price for freedom and independence.” Alnaouq is not so sure: Whatever the ultimate meaning of October 7, the aftermath has already proven, he says, “a trauma that the Palestinians will never heal from.

 

 

”Israel admits it killed its own at Nova music festival

https://thecradle.co/articles-id/13111

 

 

'Unlawful, U nethical, Horrifying': IDF Ethics Code Author on Alleged Use of 'Hannibal Directive' During Hamas Attack

Asa Kasher, the philosopher who wrote the IDF's Code of Conduct, tells Haaretz that incidents in which the infamous operational order may have been used on October 7 must be investigated immediately: 'There is absolutely nothing [in the code] to allow someone to kill an Israeli citizen, in uniform or not'

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-17/ty-article/.premium/unlawful-unethical-horrifying-idf-ethics-expert-on-controversial-hannibal-directive/0000018d-186c-dd75-addd-faedd2b80000

Haaretz initially reported cars and people using the Hannibal Directive were liquidated and blown up by Israeli Apache helicopters given to them by the US. And the respective response times being 8 hours, 13 hours and 20 hours. They then pulled the story. Almost as if it was allowed to happen to keep Nutty Yahoo in office......

[cosmicway 1,261]

Hannibal directive was in Poland, 1939.
This one ?
Hamas said on 7/10 "our heroic mutzahedin attacked Israel" they did not say "Hannibal dirrective".

You could concoct something like deliberate lax security, like what the Americans allegedly did at Pearl Harbour.

[cosmicway 1,261]

6 hours ago, manpe said:

Sounds very similar to Estonia (or almost any western country for that matter). We have donated the most to Ukraine per GDP, consistently have one of the highest inflations in EU, cost of living and housing is through the roof, government constantly backtracks on its promises and raises/creates new taxes. I guarantee if this shit was happening in e.g. France or USA, the streets would be burning. And our PM has the nerve to accuse the people of making the economic situation worse because "we whine too much"... As if burning the streets down and striking all the time would do wonders to the economy. Instead we spread our asscheeks and take it, because that's how we are, the least we should be allowed to do is complain a little bit. 🖕

Anyway, just wanted to vent. 😄 Politicians are scum. 

Russsia are playing a long game.
They cannot attack the free world like USSR also could n't (except through the window offered to them in world war II).
They cannot look forward to client political parties winning elections - those are are destined to fail more or less like the communist parties have failed.
Russia likes the domino theory, where they are in a position to exert influence. For example Iran and India lately.
But most of all they want to disorganize the west using fifth column agents. Trump-Brexit-Orban and others,
So Putin is looking forward to conquer the world in small safe steps.

It's true that most Europeans in 2003 got scared and did not participate in the Iraq operation, earning the nickname "surrender monkeys".
Now the ball is on the other foot: Trump is the new Quisling who pretends to be scared.

I countered your venting successfuly but anyway what you say "politicians are scum" cannot be truer.
Imagine you and I are government ministers.
You call me on the phone one morning and say this:

you: Hey, heard about that Nancy in Canada ?
me: Nancy who ?
you: The blonde one, remember when we were in Canada eleven years ago ?
me: Oh yeah, what about her ?
you: Have n't you heard man ? She's been caught by the mounties and they put her in a dungeon with the cat o' nine tails.
me: Oh dear !
you: And she 's going to spill the beans about the corrupt deal we made through her.
me: What are you talking about ? We have spent every penny in booze and night clubs.
you: Does n't matter. It's going to be clonk-clink man if they find out.
me: ...

The conversation continues in this vein.
But as we seen it before, why keeps repeating itself ?
Because the chances are infinitessimal.
In this imaginary conversation it so happened that we fell from the Akropolis without a parachute.
Nobody from the next generation will pay atterntion to our freaky mishap.

 

Edited March 21 by cosmicway

[Fernando 6,378]

5 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Haaretz initially reported cars and people using the Hannibal Directive were liquidated and blown up by Israeli Apache helicopters given to them by the US. And the respective response times being 8 hours, 13 hours and 20 hours. They then pulled the story. Almost as if it was allowed to happen to keep Nutty Yahoo in office......

Sounds like the conspiracy theory of 911... It's 2024 and nothing came about that. Seems similar here. 

What it's the true heartbeat of the story was this: When October 7 happened I was terrified, because whenever an Israeli man [is] killed, they’re gonna kill a hundred or two hundred Palestinians,”

This is the reality and this is happening now. So he wonder if it's it worth it at the end? 

This is the problem I have with Hamas. They don't care for their people! They are seeing their people die of hunger and not surrender... Not even worth mentioning that they still have captives..... Surely if the people are dying of food the captives would long be dead by now.....

And not making excuses for Israel as they done their share of disaster as well. But Hamas a group that was elected by the people to represent them has little care for their own people. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,423]

2 hours ago, Fernando said:

Sounds like the conspiracy theory of 911... It's 2024 and nothing came about that. Seems similar here. 

What it's the true heartbeat of the story was this: When October 7 happened I was terrified, because whenever an Israeli man [is] killed, they’re gonna kill a hundred or two hundred Palestinians,”

This is the reality and this is happening now. So he wonder if it's it worth it at the end? 

This is the problem I have with Hamas. They don't care for their people! They are seeing their people die of hunger and not surrender... Not even worth mentioning that they still have captives..... Surely if the people are dying of food the captives would long be dead by now.....

And not making excuses for Israel as they done their share of disaster as well. But Hamas a group that was elected by the people to represent them has little care for their own people. 

True. Hamas and Nut Job Yahoos right wing fan club are a disaster for ordinary peace loving people. 

US tax payers must be fucked off as well 183 billion of weapons have been given to Israel, which the arms manufacturers have made BIG, BIG share dividends.

There is money in slaughter and genocide, for a few rich people.Vile people.

[manpe 10,857]

2 hours ago, cosmicway said:

Russsia are playing a long game.
They cannot attack the free world like USSR also could n't (except through the window offered to them in world war II).
They cannot look forward to client political parties winning elections - those are are destined to fail more or less like the communist parties have failed.
Russia likes the domino theory, where they are in a position to exert influence. For example Iran and India lately.
But most of all they want to disorganize the west using fifth column agents. Trump-Brexit-Orban and others,
So Putin is looking forward to conquer the world in small safe steps.

Absolutely, no doubt about it. In Estonia we were taught from young age that you can't trust Russia, the wounds of USSR occupation still weren't healed and have been ripped open again since the 2008 Georgian invasion, then 2014 and especially 2022 Ukraine. My school in Estonia, Narva, was bombed in 1998 by Russian gangsters just because it was the only Estonian school, hence an Estonian symbol, in our otherwise Russian-speaking town. During that time Russia only had one leader, one regime, that has been planning everything since day one. They are a continuation to USSR's ambition for world dominance under dictatorship rule, just under a different name. Democracies on the other hand lack stability and ability to plan long-term, because everybody only cares about the 4 years they are in power, and they need to think about what the imbecile masses care about in order to get to power. That's why I fear that slowly but surely right-wing nutcases will take over western nations, they are more isolationist and that's what the masses want when feeling endangered in their personal lives.... Sure it's all fine and dandy to help others and be open and tolerant towards others when everybody is thriving and everything is going great, but once shit truly hits the fan, it's all for themselves.

[Fernando 6,378]

3 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

True. Hamas and Nut Job Yahoos right wing fan club are a disaster for ordinary peace loving people. 

US tax payers must be fucked off as well 183 billion of weapons have been given to Israel, which the arms manufacturers have made BIG, BIG share dividends.

There is money in slaughter and genocide, for a few rich people.Vile people.

Well it seems like usa is close to finishing that aid. If I'm to make believe that the words in fight will amount to anything? 

It does sounds like Biden might just stop supporting Israel soon. 

And even more if he gets elected again he might start cutting back a lot of the help to Israel.... 

[Fernando 6,378]

2 hours ago, manpe said:

Absolutely, no doubt about it. In Estonia we were taught from young age that you can't trust Russia, the wounds of USSR occupation still weren't healed and have been ripped open again since the 2008 Georgian invasion, then 2014 and especially 2022 Ukraine. My school in Estonia, Narva, was bombed in 1998 by Russian gangsters just because it was the only Estonian school, hence an Estonian symbol, in our otherwise Russian-speaking town. During that time Russia only had one leader, one regime, that has been planning everything since day one. They are a continuation to USSR's ambition for world dominance under dictatorship rule, just under a different name. Democracies on the other hand lack stability and ability to plan long-term, because everybody only cares about the 4 years they are in power, and they need to think about what the imbecile masses care about in order to get to power. That's why I fear that slowly but surely right-wing nutcases will take over western nations, they are more isolationist and that's what the masses want when feeling endangered in their personal lives.... Sure it's all fine and dandy to help others and be open and tolerant towards others when everybody is thriving and everything is going great, but once shit truly hits the fan, it's all for themselves.

I just don't see no one stopping Russia at this moment. I'm actually surprised that Ukraine has survived this long. But can just money and some weapons really help them survive for a lot longer? 

The real turn around is when another nation steps in and fight a long side.... Although that might be happening but through proxies.....