Politics & Stuff

[manpe 10,861]

 

How anybody can support this guy over Bernie is beyond me.

[chippy 342]

7 hours ago, manpe said:

 

How anybody can support this guy over Bernie is beyond me.

From everything I've heard, Sanders is the American version of Corbyn. So there's your answer.

They don't do extreme Left anymore than we do!

 

 

 

[Vesper 30,106]

29 minutes ago, chippy said:

From everything I've heard, Sanders is the American version of Corbyn. So there's your answer.

They don't do extreme Left anymore than we do!

 

 

 

Sanders is only extreme left on the cocked-up yank political spectrum,  which has been slid so far to the right there is almost no comparison in the EU or UK. Every single thing that people in the US are going bonkers over about his programmes are already basic governance already in place, more or less, for decades, here and in a multitude of other nation states.

The furthest to the centre half to 2/3rds of the US Democratic Party would be centre right to right wing (especially the Blue Dogs, The No Labels group, and New Democrat Coalition) in most EU countries. Many of the Republicans would be considered radical far right wing, with at least a third considered outright racist white nationalists.

The country is fucked up badly, at base systemic level, and is led by a madmen with close to 100 million or so brainwashed numpty cunt Trumpian cult members.

[11Drogba 2,000]

 

[chippy 342]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

Sanders is only extreme left on the cocked-up yank political spectrum,  which has been slid so far to the right there is almost no comparison in the EU or UK. Every single thing that people in the US are going bonkers over about his programmes are already basic governance already in place, more or less, for decades, here and in a multitude of other nation states.

The furthest to the centre half to 2/3rds of the US Democratic Party would be centre right to right wing (especially the Blue Dogs, The No Labels group, and New Democrat Coalition) in most EU countries. Many of the Republicans would be considered radical far right wing, with at least a third considered outright racist white nationalists.

The country is fucked up badly, at base systemic level, and is led by a madmen with close to 100 million or so brainwashed numpty cunt Trumpian cult members.

If America is so nasty, racist and "fucked up" why do so many millions of people from all across the world go and live there or would like to like to live there? 

More people from different backgrounds get to the top of their chosen profession  than any other country I can think of. 

Sure, there are racists there (including very anti white and anti jewish black racists) but no more so than most other countries.

Also, the demonising of people like Trump and Boris really isn't working. In fact, results shows the more the Left demonises them the more they push away their moderate, centre Left supporters. I come from a traditional Labour supporting family and not one of us would dream of voting for them these days and there are millions and millions more like us who've been pushed away.

 

 

[NikkiCFC 8,294]

4 hours ago, chippy said:

From everything I've heard, Sanders is the American version of Corbyn. So there's your answer.

They don't do extreme Left anymore than we do!

 

 

 

 

[Vesper 30,106]

4 hours ago, chippy said:

If America is so nasty, racist and "fucked up" why do so many millions of people from all across the world go and live there or would like to like to live there? 

More people from different backgrounds get to the top of their chosen profession  than any other country I can think of. 

Sure, there are racists there (including very anti white and anti jewish black racists) but no more so than most other countries.

Also, the demonising of people like Trump and Boris really isn't working. In fact, results shows the more the Left demonises them the more they push away their moderate, centre Left supporters. I come from a traditional Labour supporting family and not one of us would dream of voting for them these days and there are millions and millions more like us who've been pushed away.

 

 

Of all the OECD countries, the only nation with LOWER upward social mobility than the US is the UK. In other words, the odds are vastly stacked against the average American when it comes to moving from the lowest quintile (the lowest 20%) to the highest quintile (the highest 20%).

It is so ironic to hear a Trump fan reference immigrant vigour as a form of strength for the nation (which I do agree with) when the entire foundational modus operandi of the Trumpian (and much of the Little Englander mindset that was so crucial to Leave passing) is literally the full-throated projection of raw xenophobia and the scapegoating of those very same immigrants. Make no mistake, Trump and his ilk no long traffic in dog whistles, they use a clarion call to exacerbate and stoke fear and hatred of the other, just like any other timpot racist and white nationalist crank has done before. The main difference is that Trump has the world's largest bully pulpit with which to amplify his ghastly projections of division, hatred, and fear.

You also make a huge assumption, one that happens to be fundamental wrong, that I am in some way advocating for a Corbyn or bust style of Labour leadership. I think he is just as flawed at taproot level as the Blairites were, just coming from a vastly different paradigm of ineffectual leadership.

I complete dismiss your version of the so-called left/right paradigm itself. I also SERIOUSLY call into question your positing that you are any sort of actual Labour supporter as you are attempting to defend two creatures (Trump and BoJo) who are LITERALLY THE ANTITHESIS of what Labour has stood for over the entire breadth and span of its history, the days of Blairite domination included. Those two (and their systemic controllers) are the textbook definition of oligarchic rule, they enable and lead on the utter stripping away of protective rights for all but a few at the very top, the smashing of collective bargaining and protections for the unions and the labour movement in general, and the never-ending grinding down and diminution (with its extinction being the end goal) of any meaningful social welfare state and safety net.

[11Drogba 2,000]

 

[Vesper 30,106]

1 minute ago, 11Drogba said:

 

That assclown needs the yank Feds called in on his arse. That is a blatant threat of  a member and ex-member of Congress, and that semi-auto assault rifle is illegal in the District of Columbia.

[Atomiswave 6,117]

17 hours ago, manpe said:

 

How anybody can support this guy over Bernie is beyond me.

Biden is just another corrupt sleezy motherfcuker, a pedophile. All your fucking past leaders and future ones are all scum, they are chosen and not elected.

[MoroccanBlue 5,378]

18 hours ago, manpe said:

 

How anybody can support this guy over Bernie is beyond me.

It’s pretty easy actually. But neither two will beat Trump. 

 

 

[Vesper 30,106]

this is what actual American white supremacy looks like

so fucking sick of people trying to mitigate if by tossing out whataboutism bullshit like blacks who hate jews, or racist Asians,blah blah blah

those fuckers never remotely had dominant controlling power to institute an entire system of hundreds of years of completely dehumanisation and chattel enslavement, not to mention a Transatlantic slave trade that killed  millions and systemically enslaved the rest for life

now

Senator James Eastland wa s brutal segregationist American power broker in the US Senate for ages

Joe Biden worked with him on multiple bills to stop desegregation via busing, and thsi of course has turned into a major controversy with Biden running for the US Presidency now, as last year Biden was still given folksy stories about Eeastland and other segregationist Senators to show that he could 'get along' with anybody

the Biden apologists stoop so low as to drag the now dead Massachusetts uber liberal Senator Ted Kennedy, JFK's little brother

and try  to show how even he was on a friendly (or semi friendly) basis with Eastland

 

I just saw this story

When Ted Kennedy met James Eastland

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/dailyledes/2015/09/30/ted-kennedy-big-jim-eastland-drinking-scotch/73114062/

Kennedy had just been assigned to the Judiciary Committee, which was chaired by fellow Democrat and the senior senator from Mississippi. Eastland called the 30-year-old Kennedy to his office to discuss subcommittee assignments.

Kennedy told the story to his interviewer, calling himself “an amusement to Eastland.”

Eastland said, “I want you to come over, boy. We’ll talk about your subcommittees.” I said, “That’s fine. When do you want me to come?” “You come by tomorrow morning at ten, and we’ll talk about your subcommittees.” I said, “Okay, I’ll come over.” We had been working all day and night, what committees I want and what committees I don’t want and why. I had all my staff around, and I finally had my little list. “You sit down here, boy.” It’s 10:00. “What do you drink, bourbon or scotch?” I said, “Well, I—” “Bourbon or scotch!?” “Scotch,” I said finally.

(snip)

So he came over and put another towel down, puts some soda down. “Well,” he said,“ I think you have a lot of Italians up there in Massachusetts, don’t you?” I said yes. He said, “You have a lot of those groups come over there, a lot of immigrants come over there.” And I said, “That’s right.”

He said, “You drink that down, and you’re on the Immigration Committee.” I said, “Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.” So I drank that down, gurgle, gurgle, gurgle, gurgle. It’s now about 10:15. He said, “Kennedys always care about the Constitution. Your brother Jack’s always talking about the Constitution. Do you want to get on the Constitution subcommittee?”

I thought, How the hell did he know I wanted to get…? He said, “Drink that drink, and you’re on that Constitution Committee.” Gurgle, gurgle, gurgle, gurgle. He said, “You know, we have another subcommittee on civil rights. Kennedys are always worrying about civil rights, is that right?” I said yes. How the hell did he know those are the three subcommittees I want?

snip

 

WELL

bourbon or scotch for Ted or Joe, but for black or part black folk like me

the Eastland family wasn't quite so nice over the past 150, 200 years

Woods Caperton Eastland was the good Senator's daddy

 

.https://thewitnessbcc.com/a-reminder-of-why-you-should-never-make-light-of-lynching-warning-graphic-content/

February, 1904

Jim Crow “justice” was quick and certain for any black man who killed a white man. Fearing for their lives, Luther and Mary Holbert went on the run. Led by Eastland’s brother, Woods Caperton Eastland, the alleged crime ignited the white population and hundreds of white men who pursued the Holberts with bloodhounds guiding them. Despite Mary disguising herself as a man and taking to the swamps, the Holberts were captured three days later. What happened next is a horror of inhumanity.

The lynching didn’t happen immediately. It was planned for the next day, a Sunday afternoon after church so a large crowd could gather. The murderers strategically chose a location for maximum intimidation. It took place on the property of a black church in Doddsville, MS. The black church has historically been the locus of religious and communal life for black people. Performing a lynching on church grounds sent a message to all black people in the area that no place was safe from white supremacy.

More than a thousand people showed up to gawk at the lynching of Luther and Mary Holbert. The lynchers tied up the Holberts and commenced with “the most fiendish tortures.” First, the white murderers cut off each of the fingers and toes of their victims and gave them out as souvenirs. 

Then they beat them so mercilessly that one of Luther Holbert’s eyes hung only by a shred from its socket. Then came the most fiendish abuse. 

The Vicksburg Evening Post reported, “The most excruciating form of punishment consisted in the use of a large corkscrew in the hands of some of the mob. This instrument was bored into the flesh of the man and woman, in the arms, legs, and body, and then pulled out, the spirals tearing out big pieces of raw quivering flesh every time it was withdrawn.”

Finally, the Holberts, who were still alive, were taken to a pyre. The white men cruelly forced two black men under threat of death to drag the Holberts to the fires. They burned Mary first so Luther could see his beloved killed. Then they burned him.

The tragic and infuriating lynching of the Holberts is just one of literally thousands of similar examples. Although the details vary, the broad contours remain the same. Lynchings usually took place because of some perceived slight. Anti-lynching crusader, Ida B. Wells, found that lynchings were often over economic disputes. But imagined sexual predation on the part of black men was frequently an excuse.

Almost no white people who participated in the lynching of black citizens ever faced a legal consequence. Woods Eastland, who led the mob, actually faced charges in the murder. But his acquittal was a foregone conclusion. After the all-white jury found him innocent, Eastland hosted a party on his plantation to celebrate.

snip

probably served bourbon or scotch

 

[manpe 10,861]

21 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

It’s pretty easy actually. But neither two will beat Trump. 

 

 

What's pretty easy?

On 07/03/2020 at 11:38 AM, chippy said:

From everything I've heard, Sanders is the American version of Corbyn. So there's your answer.

They don't do extreme Left anymore than we do!

 

 

 

Don't know shit about Corbyn, so this doesn't tell me anything.

 

Everything I have heard from Bernie is reasonable. If I was American, I would be a lot more at ease with Bernie being president than a guy who says shit like "poor kids are just as talented and bright as white kids".

[MoroccanBlue 5,378]

34 minutes ago, manpe said:

What's pretty easy?

Don't know shit about Corbyn, so this doesn't tell me anything.

 

Everything I have heard from Bernie is reasonable. If I was American, I would be a lot more at ease with Bernie being president than a guy who says shit like "poor kids are just as talented and bright as white kids".

I said maybe a year or two back, don't know if it was this or another forum, that Trump will win on the basis that there are no good Democratic candidates. The key to beating Trump is to appeal to the American centrists/moderates. Biden is the closest thing to that, even though he shows genuine signs of dementia. 

Sanders is far too radical to appeal to this group. And I disagree, I don't find Bernie's policies reasonable. Eliminating private health care and implementing policies that would cost more than the entire federal budget, whilst at the same time saying the middle class won't be taxed without providing how it will be funded, is a bit concerning. Especially when the other democrats questioned him. 

 

[manpe 10,861]

22 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Eliminating private health care and implementing policies that would cost more than the entire federal budget, whilst at the same time saying the middle class won't be taxed without providing how it will be funded, is a bit concerning.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-does-bernie-pay-his-major-plans/