Politics & Stuff

[Vesper 27,313]

12 minutes ago, chippy said:

You've now reached the point where you're unable to challenge the statistics  about discrimination towards White Brits, so you're reduced to deleting and that's on top of saying Home Office data is a lie, which is exactly what I said you would do if you cared to take the time to look at the data.

 

See it absolutely evewhere where the left are in control of social media outlets. You have absolutely nothing to come back with except insults from your little bubble of like-minded Wokes, and eventually end up censoring. What does that tell you?

 

 

all you have is whingeing about 'the left' and 'woke' etc etc

same daft rot over and over

you literally just repeat yourself ad infinitum

all you have this white grievance/white victimhood/white fragility shit that you picked up from RW social and mainstream media and blather on about

you are an automaton

[chippy 342]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

 

all you have is whingeing about 'the left' and 'woke' etc etc

same daft rot over and over

you literally just repeat yourself ad infinitum

all you have this white grievance/white victimhood/white fragility shit that you picked up from RW social and mainstream media and blather on about

you are an automaton

Because the same lies are repeated back to me over and over. 

Anyway, you've just completely  exposed yourself with the white grievance shite. It is now very clear where you stand on discrimination and who the real racist is here. 

So I'll leave it at that with you 

[Vesper 27,313]

34 minutes ago, chippy said:

Because the same lies are repeated back to me over and over. 

Anyway, you've just completely  exposed yourself with the white grievance shite. It is now very clear where you stand on discrimination and who the real racist is here. 

So I'll leave it at that with you 

you are the epitome of white grievance and white fragility, expressed here as mindless sloganeering about artificial constructs that have been scientifically stuffed down your mental gullet, then regurgitated out in a never-ending spew of pabulum

 

you should read up on nonlinear warfare and reflexive control

as you are a victim of it

[cosmicway 1,252]

7 hours ago, chippy said:

Broadly agree with you there.

Of course there are racists in the UK, but there are racists everywhere in the world from every race, creed and colour.

But if we were an institutionally racist country, there would be no way of hiding it. We've just had a committee gave a look into it and they found no evidence of it.

Sadly, there are a section of population who just hate this country, it's history, it's historical figures, its culture and it's free speech. Hateful enough of this country to lump Brits (white Brits, anyway) in with the likes of Nazi Germany, America, South Africa, Rhodesia, Australia, Amin's Uganda. 

Many of them have just  become everything they used to hate with their very own brand of extremism and intolerance.😟😟😟

 

 

After the Jimmy Carter presidency in the USA things became progressively civilized in the world.
Until the brexiters threw a spanner in the works.

[Vesper 27,313]

A new prime minister in Israel

Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, yesterday formally ousted Benjamin Netanyahu, whose 12-year reign as prime minister was the longest in the country’s history. The Knesset approved a new coalition government by a single vote: 60 to 59, with one abstention.

He was replaced as prime minister by Naftali Bennett. Often described as further to the right than Netanyahu, Bennett sees no path to Palestinian statehood and believes Israel should annex much of the occupied West Bank. The centrist leader Yair Lapid, who helped broker the deal, will take his place as prime minister in two years.

The eight parties in the coalition, which span the political spectrum, have little in common. They plan to steer clear of issues that would divide them, like the conflict with Palestinians, and promise a domestic focus: patching budgets, fixing roads and rebuilding the fumbling economy.

Tel Aviv dispatch: Ecstatic Israelis descended onto Rabin Square on Sunday for a celebration marking the swearing-in of the new government.

Netanyahu: The 71-year-old has no plans to retire and may still lead the powerful Likud party. In a self-congratulatory speech on Sunday, he listed his accomplishments and swore vengeance, pledging to lead his supporters “in a daily battle against this bad and dangerous left-wing government, and bring it down.”

[Vesper 27,313]

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,199]

21 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Funnily enough Good Housekeeping 😜 had quite a decent explanation

What Black Lives Matter Means - Why Saying 'All Lives Matter' Misses the Point (goodhousekeeping.com)

But that in itself is fallacious according to statistics, which is why many are opposed to BLM and particularly this message. The narrative that all police are inherently racist and target blacks specifically because of their race. 

Last I checked, FBI statistics (United States) show police shootings towards whites are significantly higher more than blacks. We narrow it down to per capita, blacks are higher nearly 2x. Now many tend to leave the argument there to support the BLM agenda, but this in itself is a cherry picking fallacy. You look at the crime rate per capita, blacks are higher nearly 2x. 

Now when looking at the data, a proper analysis would suggest that this doesn't have to do with racist police, it has more to do with blacks being victims of their own environment.  This is the argument BLM should be pushing for in my opinion. Being victims of systemically racist upbringings such as Jim Crow, Red lining, and the crack/cocaine epidemic. This has attributed to a greater window of crime for blacks and a smaller window for success. Ice Cube in particular is doing what needs to be done. Pushing for bills that brings more money into these black cities and counties, particularly those that have been affected by the three I mentioned. This will help end racial disparity vs claiming all cops are inherently racist. 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by MoroccanBlue

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

53 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

But that in itself is fallacious according to statistics, which is why many are opposed to BLM and particularly this message. The narrative that all police are inherently racist and target blacks specifically because of their race. 

Last I checked, FBI statistics (United States) show police shootings towards whites are significantly higher more than blacks. We narrow it down to per capita, blacks are higher nearly 2x. Now many tend to leave the argument there to support the BLM agenda, but this in itself is a cherry picking fallacy. You look at the crime rate per capita, blacks are higher nearly 2x. 

Now when looking at the data, a proper analysis would suggest that this doesn't have to do with racist police, it has more to do with blacks being victims of their own environment.  This is the argument BLM should be pushing for in my opinion. Being victims of systemically racist upbringings such as Jim Crow, Red lining, and the crack/cocaine epidemic. This has attributed to a greater window of crime for blacks and a smaller window for success. Ice Cube in particular is doing what needs to be done. Pushing for bills that brings more money into these black cities and counties, particularly those that have been affected by the three I mentioned. This will help end racial disparity vs claiming all cops are inherently racist. 

 

Well you seem to know the answer 😁. Though I would suspect most cops are racist, originally set up in the US to catch run away slaves. We did a thesis on police violence and corruption - basically they are just another gang, but incredibly well armed with a monopoly over violence. So many studies showed they were sexist racist with a bully boy mentality (though this was in the 90s) -had an uncle who was a Chief Super, responsible for over 1200 officers -hate to say it but he was one hundred per cent racist.

[MoroccanBlue 5,199]

10 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Well you seem to know the answer 😁. Though I would suspect most cops are racist, originally set up in the US to catch run away slaves. We did a thesis on police violence and corruption - basically they are just another gang, but incredibly well armed with a monopoly over violence. So many studies showed they were sexist racist with a bully boy mentality (though this was in the 90s) -had an uncle who was a Chief Super, responsible for over 1200 officers -hate to say it but he was one hundred per cent racist.

I'm not denying there are racist cops, my argument was that pushing the narrative blacks are the only ones targeted because police are inherently racist is not only incorrect, but does nothing to end racial disparity. This is why many are against BLM and retaliate with All Lives Matter. Or they are just simply racist. 

Police Reform has been an issue since the 50s, which has attributed to so many wrongful deaths. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

3 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

I'm not denying there are racist cops, my argument was that pushing the narrative blacks are the only ones targeted because police are inherently racist is not only incorrect, but does nothing to end racial disparity. This is why many are against BLM and retaliate with All Lives Matter. Or they are just simply racist. 

Police Reform has been an issue since the 50s, which has attributed to so many wrongful deaths. 

Maybe it wont end racial disparity, and its fine and dandy for us to point out 'where they are going wrong' from our arm chairs -but you can see why BLM sprung up in the US - a seemingly endless parade of black people being choked, shot in the back, kicked, maced, batoned, often when handcuffed. The US have decades of history of this, paralleled with recordings of police radio.  Raw anger, and justified - though i suppose we can be thankful that things would be a lot more inflammatory were Trump was still in office, and appealing to the lowest common denominators of his followers.

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,199]

13 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Maybe it wont end racial disparity, and its fine and dandy for us to point out 'where they are going wrong' from our arm chairs -but you can see why BLM sprung up in the US - a seemingly endless parade of black people being choked, shot in the back, kicked, maced, batoned, often when handcuffed. The US have decades of history of this, paralleled with recordings of police radio.  Raw anger, and justified - though i suppose we can be thankful that things would be a lot more inflammatory were Trump was still in office, and appealing to the lowest common denominators of his followers.

 

You can thank left wing media for making it appear as if Blacks are the only ones suffering from police brutality. Thus creating the narrative it is a race issue. Add the fact Hollywood is primarily left wing so celebrities will also push that narrative. This does nothing but instill fear in every young black person, when the data shows it isn't true. 

American's upbringing in the 1900s was systemically racist. Jim Crow, Red Lining, and that Crack/Cocaine epidemic has created hundreds of black cities and counties in the United States still suffering to this day. Again, this has shrunk the window of opportunity and increased the window of crime for these black Americans. Thus being products of their own environment. THIS for me is the true issue. 

 

[Vesper 27,313]

9 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

You can thank left wing media for making it appear as if Blacks are the only ones suffering from police brutality.

 

massive strawman

no one ever said that

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

9 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

You can thank left wing media for making it appear as if Blacks are the only ones suffering from police brutality. Thus creating the narrative it is a race issue.

Nearly every media outlet i have seen brutality by police has been a right wing publication/news outlet, coupled with inflammatory language. I do find it hilarious how billionaire tax dodging media is called 'left wing'. Brilliant Orwellian doublespeak.

 

12 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Crack/Cocaine epidemic

Loads of evidence funded and flooded into poor areas by CIA 

[MoroccanBlue 5,199]

Just now, Vesper said:

massive strawman

no one ever said that

Please elaborate.

Again, without sounding ignorant, I asked for the true message of BLM.  Both yourself and Broadway provided me resources that implied this has been rooted by the belief black Americans where the only ones in peril. 

3 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Nearly every media outlet i have seen brutality by police has been a right wing publication/news outlet, coupled with inflammatory language. I do find it hilarious how billionaire tax dodging media is called 'left wing'. Brilliant Orwellian doublespeak.

There is a massive distinction between left and right when you compare it to the States and in the UK. 

4 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Loads of evidence funded and flooded into poor areas by CIA 

One of the many systemically racist implementations of America. 

[Vesper 27,313]

3 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Please elaborate.

Again, without sounding ignorant, I asked for the true message of BLM.  Both yourself and Broadway provided me resources that implied this has been rooted by the belief black Americans where the only ones in peril. 

As a percentage of the population blacks are treated the worst or garner the worst outcomes (in almost every category imaginable) of any racial/ethnic group

whether is is systemic suspicion, brutality, incarceration, and/or death at the hands of law enforcement/justice system

or employment, healthcare, educational opportunities etc etc etc

we are at the bottom of the ladder

I will once again give my personal example

real life

My wife and I are in Harrods

I am dressed extremely well, came from award presentation for one of my professors

she came from the gym, and is in sweats and trainers, hair a goddamn hot mess, lol

I get followed around the store after we split up by a private detective, same as has happened a dozen plus times before in other stores, in both London, and in the US (and that is ONLY times I noticed it becuase the coppers were inept). The Birkin bag I had with me is likely half a years salary for the private copper, but because I am black, I am auto-suspect of criminality, no matter how posh, well-spoken, intelligent I may be. My blackness (and I am light skinned due to mixed race, if I was straight Nigerian black, dog help me, and triple that if I was male and not a female) trumps it all in superficial random encounters.

she is NEVER followed, because... white privilege

 

[Vesper 27,313]

the yanks are going further down the shitter

huge attempt to take over the US's largest protestant denomination and turn it into a white nationalist baby jeebus Taliban

‘Take the Ship’: Conservatives Aim to Commandeer Southern Baptists

The insurgents, some adopting a pirate motif, believe that the denomination has drifted too far to the left on issues of race, gender and the strict authority of the Bible.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/12/us/southern-baptists-conservatives.html

 

Allen Nelson IV walked to the front of his small church in central Arkansas, stopped in front of the communion table with three large crosses behind him, and unfurled a giant black flag with a white skull and crossed swords.

For several years, the pastor and father of five had felt that too many of his fellow Christians were drifting unmistakably leftward on issues of race, gender and the strict authority of the Bible. The flag was a gift from a friend, energized — like Mr. Nelson — by the idea of heroically reclaiming the faith.

It was time, he believed, to “take the ship.”

“We’re fighting for the very heart of the Southern Baptist Convention,” Mr. Nelson said in an interview. “For a long time what I thought a good Southern Baptist pastor should do was to send money and trust the system. We can’t do that anymore.”

Mr. Nelson is not alone. He is part of an ultraconservative populist uprising of pastors from Louisiana to California threatening to overtake the country’s largest Protestant denomination.

Next week more than 16,000 Southern Baptist pastors and leaders will descend on Nashville for their first annual meeting of the post-Trump era. It is their most high-profile gathering in years, with attendance more than double the most recent meeting in 2019, after a pandemic cancellation last year. It caps months of vicious infighting over every cultural and political division facing the country, particularly after the murder of George Floyd.

The outcome has the potential to permanently split an already divided evangelical America. Like the Trump movement within the Republican Party, a populist groundswell within the already conservative evangelical denomination is trying to install an anti-establishment leader who could wrench the church even further to the right, while opponents contend that the church must broaden its reach to preserve its strength. For three days, thousands of delegates known as “messengers” — most of them white men — will fight over race, sex and ultimately the future of evangelical power in the United States.

The large increase in attendance this year is “not an influx of the woke,” said Tom Buck, a pastor in Texas and a leader of the upstart conservative wing, who has been fund-raising for like-minded pastors to get to Nashville to vote. “It’s an influx of the awakened to what the woke have been advancing.”

An event that has historically been compared to a family reunion may look more like a brawl. In the past several weeks, Baptists have pored over leaked bombshell letters and whistle-blower recordings, and traded accusations of racism, apostasy and sexual abuse cover-ups. Leaders have taken barbed potshots at each other. Others have headed for the door.

Russell Moore, the denomination’s influential head of ethics and public policy, left on June 1. The popular author and speaker Beth Moore, who is not related to Mr. Moore, announced in March that she is no longer a Southern Baptist, citing the “staggering” disorientation of seeing the denomination’s leaders support Donald J. Trump, and lamenting its treatment of women. Some conservatives triumphantly celebrated both departures.

Messengers will confront a series of measures likely including the propriety of women delivering sermons, the handling of sexual abuse and a denunciation of critical race theory, the concept that historical patterns of racism remain ingrained in modern American society and institutions.

Those hoping to “take the ship” maintain that piracy is nothing more than a cheeky metaphor for a dry, democratic process. Still, the swashbuckling imagery has taken hold. There are “Take the Ship” T-shirts and pirate car flags, GIFs and memes; many supporters attach a pirate flag emoji to their Twitter handles.

In Alaska, the pastor Nathaniel Jolly posted photographs to Twitter of a pirate-themed frozen yogurt shop he used to own with his wife. “Now, for the SBC!” he wrote, appending a flag emoji to the message.

Mr. Jolly, who will attend his first annual meeting, watched with alarm as public schools in his area have begun to teach what he describes as critical race theory. And he was shocked when high-profile leaders in his own denomination endorsed aspects of the sprawling racial protest movement last summer. “I think C.R.T. is one of these destructive heresies that have snuck in,” he said, referring to a passage in the New Testament book of 2 Peter about false teachers who bring “swift destruction on themselves.”

The rebellion in the Southern Baptist Convention both reflects and forecasts what is going on in broader society and the Republican Party, said Jemar Tisby, assistant director of narrative and advocacy at the Boston University Center for Antiracist Research.

In the wake of the racial justice protests and the ongoing disinformation about the election, there has been “a sifting” going on in the church over race and justice in particular, he said.

“The annual meeting is an opportunity for denominational leaders either to sensitively address the concerns and racism that Black people have experienced or to side with the status quo which favors white people, particularly men,” he said.

The denomination has about 14.5 million members but has been steadily shrinking for the past decade. In 2014, about 85 percent of Southern Baptists were white, 6 percent were Black and 3 percent were Latino, according to the Pew Research Center.

Southern Baptists split from their northern counterparts in 1845 in support of slavery. After the denomination repudiated its role in slavery in the 1990s, a portion of its national leaders have attempted to diversify its churches and seminaries. At its 2019 meeting, the convention affirmed that critical race theory could be an “analytical tool” useful to faithful Christians, a move that many conservatives describe as alarming. Its current president, J.D. Greear, urged Southern Baptists last summer to declare that “Black lives matter.”

Some high-profile Southern Baptists have also pushed back on some strictures against female church leadership. One of the denomination’s largest congregations, Saddleback Church in Southern California, quietly ordained three women as staff pastors in May, a move that outraged conservatives.

Conservatives have spent months drumming up turnout. The Conservative Baptist Network, an increasingly influential group founded last year, released a recent video urging Baptists to “stop the drift” by coming to Nashville. Some Baptists planned to gather at rallying sites before the big event. Outside Dallas, 1,600 people registered for Wokeness and the Gospel, a conference that warned of the perils of what organizers call “the new moralism.”

The most high-profile vote at the meeting will be the election of a new president, a race whose leading candidates are Mike Stone, a Georgia pastor who is the favorite of many conservatives, including Mr. Nelson and Mr. Jolly; Ed Litton, an Alabama pastor who has largely avoided culture war battles and has the support of the denomination’s first Black president; and Albert Mohler Jr., a lion of the denomination who helped usher in a conservative revolution decades ago and is now in the awkward position of being labeled a moderate “compromise candidate.” Mr. Stone, a onetime underdog, is considered a serious contender.

No matter which side emerges triumphant from the meeting next week, a schism looms.

“A lot of us will know if this convention is for us once it is over,” said Dwight McKissic, pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas, who has been leading antiracism efforts in the denomination. If Mr. Mohler or Mr. Stone wins the presidency, or if resolutions are passed that affirm racism, in his view, he will leave. Several other Black pastors have announced their departures within the past year.

Hostility over critical race theory among the Southern Baptists, which came to the foreground after Thanksgiving when seminary presidents denounced it, is interwoven with its weaponization by the G.O.P., he said.

“The litmus test now for being a Baptist is you have to denounce C.R.T. as they do?” he said. “We would be completely off our rockers to submit, give that kind of power to a white denomination, particularly on the subject of race.”

The convention has historically reflected divisions in the country. The most recent meeting, two years ago in Birmingham, Ala., focused on sexual abuse in evangelical churches. The year before, tensions were political. Mike Pence, then the country’s vice president, gave a keynote address to rally evangelical support for Mr. Trump ahead of the midterm elections.

The denomination vowed at its convention two years ago to address sexual abuse in its congregations, but many victims’ advocates have warned that little has changed. Southern Baptist leaders have also not publicly addressed an allegation of abuse at one of its most prominent megachurches, the Village Church in Texas.

In one of two fiery letters that leaked after his departure, Mr. Moore accused leaders including Mr. Stone of impeding the denomination’s attempts to root out abusers, and of “bullying and intimidation” toward survivors of sexual abuse. (Mr. Stone responded in a video statement, calling the letter “as inflammatory as it is inaccurate.”) Later, an ally of Mr. Moore released audio recordings of meetings that included Mr. Moore, Mr. Stone and others debating how to handle abuse, with another high-placed leader, Ronnie Floyd, saying his priority was not to worry about survivor reactions but rather to “preserve the base.” (In a statement, Mr. Floyd apologized and said his remarks were mischaracterized.)

Opponents of the conservative campaign are not as centrally organized, with a less targeted voter turnout operation. Last month, their preferred candidate, Mr. Litton, held question-and-answer sessions for about 30 pastors in West Virginia over takeout Chick-fil-A, and another for a similar group in Baton Rouge, La.

No matter what happens in Nashville, the conservatives are pressing on to strengthen their institutional and cultural power. Tom Ascol, who leads Founders Ministries, an influential conservative group, has been hosting regular calls with fellow pastors who are newly engaged in the fight.

Next year Founders will host a conference called Militant and Triumphant, whose website makes its ambitions plain:

“We indeed do not wage war against flesh and blood, but we do wage war.”

[Vesper 27,313]

Trump is looking like shit

Trump's suit looked as though it needed a good ironing with his jacket and pants looking distinctly creased

[Vesper 27,313]

Edited June 15, 2021 by Vesper