Politics & Stuff

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

Everytime I hear pro or anti gun debates in the USA I think of this song by the Dead Kennedys from 1987. Seems not much has changed in 30 years.

 

"A Child And His Lawnmower"
 

Some clown in Sacramento was dragged into court
He shot his lawnmower
It disobeyed, it wouldn't start
Might makes right, it's the American way
They fined him $60 and sent him on his way 

You know, some people don't take no shit
Maybe if they did they'd have half a brain left

[Spike 12,049]

4 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Everytime I hear pro or anti gun debates in the USA I think of this song by the Dead Kennedys from 1987. Seems not much has changed in 30 years.

 

"A Child And His Lawnmower"
 

Some clown in Sacramento was dragged into court
He shot his lawnmower
It disobeyed, it wouldn't start
Might makes right, it's the American way
They fined him $60 and sent him on his way 

You know, some people don't take no shit
Maybe if they did they'd have half a brain left

 

I've spent a lot of time around guns in the states and back home. To be honest, I never really felt endangered around people that obviously know how to use a gun safely. Guns are cool, guns are fun as fuck but nobody has rights to a gun, it's a privileged that has to be earned. Hell, I'd feel safer around an NRA gun nut than a cop 

[cosmicway 1,333]

I 'm at a loss to uderstand the motive behind the Turkish attempted coup d' etat.
It does n't look like it falls into any of the usual patterns, communism-anticommunism, tribalism or even europeanism-antieuropeanism.
I also find it hard to believe that either of the two sides is pro-ISIS and the other one is against.
 

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

1 hour ago, cosmicway said:

I 'm at a loss to uderstand the motive behind the Turkish attempted coup d' etat.
It does n't look like it falls into any of the usual patterns, communism-anticommunism, tribalism or even europeanism-antieuropeanism.
I also find it hard to believe that either of the two sides is pro-ISIS and the other one is against.
 

It's more of a secular/religious division. 
Most of the young Turks I met in Istanbul/Izmir/Kusadasi et cetera are non-religious and absolutely despise Erdogan and what he represents. Turkey had a strict division between state and religion since Ataturk and he's trying to reverse this. This said, I think the whole coupe was very 'convenient' for him, since it allowed him to get rid of about 6,000 opponents without any protest. He fired 2,000 judges right after the coupe. I wouldn't be very surprised if it turned out that he planned all of it.

[Fernando 6,585]

39 minutes ago, johnnythefirst said:

It's more of a secular/religious division. 
Most of the young Turks I met in Istanbul/Izmir/Kusadasi et cetera are non-religious and absolutely despise Erdogan and what he represents. Turkey had a strict division between state and religion since Ataturk and he's trying to reverse this. This said, I think the whole coupe was very 'convenient' for him, since it allowed him to get rid of about 6,000 opponents without any protest. He fired 2,000 judges right after the coupe. I wouldn't be very surprised if it turned out that he planned all of it.

That is the conspiracy theory I been hearing. 

And to be fair I wouldn't be surprised as well since the bible says in the end time there will be a lot of deception. Like things aren't what they seem to be. 

[cosmicway 1,333]

31 minutes ago, johnnythefirst said:

It's more of a secular/religious division. 
Most of the young Turks I met in Istanbul/Izmir/Kusadasi et cetera are non-religious and absolutely despise Erdogan and what he represents. Turkey had a strict division between state and religion since Ataturk and he's trying to reverse this. This said, I think the whole coupe was very 'convenient' for him, since it allowed him to get rid of about 6,000 opponents without any protest. He fired 2,000 judges right after the coupe. I wouldn't be very surprised if it turned out that he planned all of it.

So it appears to me Erdogan is too religious but without going into the extremes of ISIS and the fundamentalists, while his opponents favour a more westernised way of life.
But is that enough for such a huge rift in society ?
It does n't look like he planned it but maybe he took the risk to provoke them as much as he could and make them play their hand.
From that much information, I don't think it is sane though.
In Greece in 1967 there was at least the accusation made by the army against Andreas Papandreou that he wanted to make Greece into a baathist state. That was a false accusation, almost comical, but as accusations go it was serious enough.
But starting a civil war because bikini suim suits are not allowed on the beaches seems bizarre to me.

 

 

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

26 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

So it appears to me Erdogan is too religious but without going into the extremes of ISIS and the fundamentalists, while his opponents favour a more westernised way of life.
But is that enough for such a huge rift in society ?
It does n't look like he planned it but maybe he took the risk to provoke them as much as he could and make them play their hand.
From that much information, I don't think it is sane though.
In Greece in 1967 there was at least the accusation made by the army against Andreas Papandreou that he wanted to make Greece into a baathist state. That was a false accusation, almost comical, but as accusations go it was serious enough.
But starting a civil war because bikini suim suits are not allowed on the beaches seems bizarre to me.

 

 

Turkey is a secular state, and a lot of the young/educated people in the big cities near the west coast are very free in the way they think. I would say more so than in some European countries. Istanbul for example is one of the most exciting cities I've ever been to. Simply wild. Erdogan is religious though, and is taking away certain freedoms. The army was always there to defend the secular ideals of Ataturk (he founded the modern Turkish state) and has taken over power plenty of times in the past when it felt that the secular state was being threatened by religious elements.

What is more worrying about Erdogan though, is that he is centralising all of the power in Turkey into his own hands. He's a Putin kind of guy. He wants to be the big man and the only power in the country until they take it from his cold dead hands. Essentially he got even stronger after what happened this week. He's as good as a dictator right now. He spent billions making this ugly, Aladdinlike Palace for himself, he's putting critical journalists in jail, he's suing foreign comics because they 'insulted him'. When he lost his complete majority after the last elections and had to make a coalition, he deliberately rotted things out until no solution could be found and there had to be new elections (he regained his majority after them). There are even rumors going around that he's giving out fridges and other appliances to poor illiterates on the countryside to make them go out and vote for him. 

The most infuriating thing to me was that, during the coupe and from the safety of his bunker, he ordered his followers to go out and fight against soldiers and tanks "to save democracy", while he has savagely beaten down any form of democratic protest against him during the last five years. Remember the major riots in Istanbul 3 years ago. All of the blood of civilian lives lost during this coupe are on his hands. He's an insecure coward, like so many of these dictators. 

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

Also, the problem is not that he's "too religious". The problem is that he's trying to get religion back into law and politics. Everybody can believe whatever the hell they want, but keep it out of the law and let other people live their lives as well. If someone in my country tried attacking the separation between church and state I would fight it with all my heart. 

[cosmicway 1,333]

19 minutes ago, johnnythefirst said:

Also, the problem is not that he's "too religious". The problem is that he's trying to get religion back into law and politics. Everybody can believe whatever the hell they want, but keep it out of the law and let other people live their lives as well. If someone in my country tried attacking the separation between church and state I would fight it with all my heart. 

 

Well, it depends what they do though.
Set up a new Spanish inquisition ?
We had the same debate here in 2002.
I sided with the church, because on the one hand we Greeks do not hurt people of different religions (like they were doing in Northern Ireland for example) while on the other hand I noticed that all those who attacked religion in the tv panels were communists who wanted to install a one party dictatorship.
But I suppose this is different from Turkey.
I think it's a problem. The Turks believe the world is divided between the righteous and the sinners (where your side are the righteous). The winner locks the loser to a prison cell. Just like Brexit.
They have to abandon this belief. It can't work. Go to international football results and see how many Turkish league matches do not end and compare the number to other countries.
Some Greeks behave the same. Before the last election, 20 September 2015, Tsipras said "on the twentieth you are finished", meaning that those who do not agree with his party will have to find some fast horses and carts and leave the country. He wants ot bring back to life the long time dead class hatred. But Tsipras is a pathetic imbecile.

 

[cosmicway 1,333]

---

 

[CHOULO19 24,332]

@Spike watch this before it gets taken down: 

 

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

8 hours ago, cosmicway said:

 

Well, it depends what they do though.
Set up a new Spanish inquisition ?
We had the same debate here in 2002.
I sided with the church, because on the one hand we Greeks do not hurt people of different religions (like they were doing in Northern Ireland for example) while on the other hand I noticed that all those who attacked religion in the tv panels were communists who wanted to install a one party dictatorship.
But I suppose this is different from Turkey.
I think it's a problem. The Turks believe the world is divided between the righteous and the sinners (where your side are the righteous). The winner locks the loser to a prison cell. Just like Brexit.
They have to abandon this belief. It can't work. Go to international football results and see how many Turkish league matches do not end and compare the number to other countries.
Some Greeks behave the same. Before the last election, 20 September 2015, Tsipras said "on the twentieth you are finished", meaning that those who do not agree with his party will have to find some fast horses and carts and leave the country. He wants ot bring back to life the long time dead class hatred. But Tsipras is a pathetic imbecile.

 

It's no or-or story. You should have total freedom of religion, but religion itself should not mix up with politics. Every time it happens, it gets dangerous. 

[lucio 5,418]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36832909

yet another attack from these barbarians

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

Donald Trump's wife ha ha what a fuckwitt can't wait for her next speech where she talks about how hard it was growing up as a black woman in Illinois.

[Fulham Broadway 17,305]

36 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Donald Trump's wife ha ha what a fuckwitt can't wait for her next speech where she talks about how hard it was growing up as a black woman in Illinois.

So, Melania, what first attracted you to the twice yiur age, toupee wearing, ...er....BILLIONAIRE, Donald Trump ?