🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Frank Lampard

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

To put our position into perspective. Klopp finished 8th in his first season with Liverpool with transfers (and a similar mediocre squad as ours now). That Liverpool side lost 10 times, just as we did so far and finished on 60points which is surely less than we will finish. The season thereafter they had 76 points and 6 losses, scraping 4th place, again with transfers.

We should give Lamps time. He has committed amateur mistakes that are typical of a rookie manager cos he is a rookie manager. But Klopp was already a veteran and they struggled badly defensively in his first two years.

Lampard has massively overachieved by even putting us in this position. My expectation for the season was 6th and I still think that is where we end up. But we also managed a cup run and got out of the CL group stages. All in all this is already a solid season. And if we lose out on a top4 palce then to settled teams which are in better shape than we are.

As annoying as this set piece shit is, we should give it time. We are building a dynasty . After yesterday I am convinced Kepa and Rüdiger can not be part of this. neither can Alonso. But before we have replaced them we will leak goals irrelevant of how good we practise defensive routines. If Kepa decides to try to collect the ball for a first time in ages while having no chance of reaching it, this is not a coaching error it is an individual error. Same as Christensen stopping to his run ball watching. The last one maybe was a tactical mistake if Alonso was instructed to stay up, no idea.

Anyway, we should stop overreacting. I think there are some mental issues in the team which result in the same mistakes being repeated over and over again. Has to do with confidence and I dont think this can be fixed from within.

 

[Johnnyeye 7,509]

4 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

To put our position into perspective. Klopp finished 8th in his first season with Liverpool with transfers (and a similar mediocre squad as ours now). That Liverpool side lost 10 times, just as we did so far and finished on 60points which is surely less than we will finish. The season thereafter they had 76 points and 6 losses, scraping 4th place, again with transfers.

We should give Lamps time. He has committed amateur mistakes that are typical of a rookie manager cos he is a rookie manager. But Klopp was already a veteran and they struggled badly defensively in his first two years.

Lampard has massively overachieved by even putting us in this position. My expectation for the season was 6th and I still think that is where we end up. But we also managed a cup run and got out of the CL group stages. All in all this is already a solid season. And if we lose out on a top4 palce then to settled teams which are in better shape than we are.

As annoying as this set piece shit is, we should give it time. We are building a dynasty . After yesterday I am convinced Kepa and Rüdiger can not be part of this. neither can Alonso. But before we have replaced them we will leak goals irrelevant of how good we practise defensive routines. If Kepa decides to try to collect the ball for a first time in ages while having no chance of reaching it, this is not a coaching error it is an individual error. Same as Christensen stopping to his run ball watching. The last one maybe was a tactical mistake if Alonso was instructed to stay up, no idea.

Anyway, we should stop overreacting. I think there are some mental issues in the team which result in the same mistakes being repeated over and over again. Has to do with confidence and I dont think this can be fixed from within.

 

well said mate, we definitely overachieved this season, and despite many flaws in this squad, there are clearly great signs for the future. If we are patient enough and add the right pieces it will reap rewards, Lamps deserves time and patience from the fans and club, and like you said, he is a rookie manager.

[Tomo 21,751]

34 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

To put our position into perspective. Klopp finished 8th in his first season with Liverpool with transfers (and a similar mediocre squad as ours now). That Liverpool side lost 10 times, just as we did so far and finished on 60points which is surely less than we will finish. The season thereafter they had 76 points and 6 losses, scraping 4th place, again with transfers.

We should give Lamps time. He has committed amateur mistakes that are typical of a rookie manager cos he is a rookie manager. But Klopp was already a veteran and they struggled badly defensively in his first two years.

Lampard has massively overachieved by even putting us in this position. My expectation for the season was 6th and I still think that is where we end up. But we also managed a cup run and got out of the CL group stages. All in all this is already a solid season. And if we lose out on a top4 palce then to settled teams which are in better shape than we are.

As annoying as this set piece shit is, we should give it time. We are building a dynasty . After yesterday I am convinced Kepa and Rüdiger can not be part of this. neither can Alonso. But before we have replaced them we will leak goals irrelevant of how good we practise defensive routines. If Kepa decides to try to collect the ball for a first time in ages while having no chance of reaching it, this is not a coaching error it is an individual error. Same as Christensen stopping to his run ball watching. The last one maybe was a tactical mistake if Alonso was instructed to stay up, no idea.

Anyway, we should stop overreacting. I think there are some mental issues in the team which result in the same mistakes being repeated over and over again. Has to do with confidence and I dont think this can be fixed from within.

 

Thing is I fully accept this is a process infact I've been branded all sorts for excusing many defeats this season.

But the defeats/draws i "glossed over" were ones we played quite well in (even some we didn't) and we didn't win purely because we weren't there yet. Had we yesterday played Gilmour/Jorgi in the base of the midfield, and we tried to play our game of play out from the back, pass and move etc but we were done because we lacked a bit of experience and know how at this stage (like say what happened at home against Arsenal where I went on a one man crusade against people who called that performance shit) then I'd be as happy as it's possible to be after seeing a reverse.

It's the fact we've seemed to have abandoned what we're trying to build that's the crux of frustration for me, we're not bothering to play out anymore, we're relying on individual brilliance and even the minutes for the youth players are drying up.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

12 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Thing is I fully accept this is a process infact I've been branded all sorts for excusing many defeats this season.

But the defeats/draws i "glossed over" were ones we played quite well in (even some we didn't) and we didn't win purely because we weren't there yet. Had we yesterday played Gilmour/Jorgi in the base of the midfield, and we tried to play our game of play out from the back, pass and move etc but we were done because we lacked a bit of experience and know how at this stage (like say what happened at home against Arsenal where I went on a one man crusade against people who called that performance shit) then I'd be as happy as it's possible to be after seeing a reverse.

It's the fact we've seemed to abandoned what we're trying to build that's the crux of frustration for me, we're not bothering to play out anymore, we're relying on individual brilliance and even the minutes for the youth players are drying up.

This is true. I think Lampard got nervous and wants to finish off the season without risking to expose our defence. It is only natural to rely on experience when its crunch time.

Now we have the worst of both worlds. But Lampard is not an ideologist. I can see him reinstate Jorginho in an instant. He will learn from this. Esp since Jorginho is closest to a leader we have on the field. I am pretty sure we will see him next game vs Watford

Kante is not what he used to be. In his prime he dribbled through pressing opponents with ease and thus broke up the play. Nowadays he just defends. He should be used to see out wins like the way Mourinho used Mikel.

[Jase 43,479]

32 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

As annoying as this set piece shit is, we should give it time. We are building a dynasty . After yesterday I am convinced Kepa and Rüdiger can not be part of this. neither can Alonso. But before we have replaced them we will leak goals irrelevant of how good we practise defensive routines. If Kepa decides to try to collect the ball for a first time in ages while having no chance of reaching it, this is not a coaching error it is an individual error. Same as Christensen stopping to his run ball watching. The last one maybe was a tactical mistake if Alonso was instructed to stay up, no idea.

This would have been a valid point if the defensive issues hadn't been a thing with Lampard since his Derby days. The defenders are bad, the keeper is bad and Lampard as well as the coaching staff seem clueless in making sure we look competent defensively at the very least. 

[killer1257 3,282]

This would have been a valid point if the defensive issues hadn't been a thing with Lampard since his Derby days. The defenders are bad, the keeper is bad and Lampard as well as the coaching staff seem clueless in making sure we look competent defensively at the very least. 

Did Lamps have good CBs as at Derby?
Klopp seemed clueless too with the garbage defenders he had at Liverpool

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[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

Did Lamps have good CBs as at Derby?
Klopp seemed clueless too with the garbage defenders he had at Liverpool

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Teams with worse defenders than us have defender better as a unit than us. 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

Just now, Jason said:

This would have been a valid point if the defensive issues hadn't been a thing with Lampard since his Derby days. The defenders are bad, the keeper is bad and Lampard as well as the coaching staff seem clueless in making sure we look competent defensively at the very least. 

Then again the same was true for his Derby defense and goalkeeper. in fact most defenses in the championship are weird. Just look at the table, all teams up to 6th place a gd of less than 10. Derby this season have conceded 52 goals already in 40 games which is just 2 less than under Lamps for the whole season. Sure he is not a good defensive coach and i miss the times where you could rely on our defense to not concede stupid goals and shit away winning positions constantly. Give a not so good manager shit defenders and it will be chaos. Give a shit coach like Avram Grant a world class defense and it will be alright. Jürgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola are not exactly great defensive coaches either. They only won stuff as soon as they got a world class goalkeeper and half-decent defenders. Our current defenders wont fix it. Lampard wont fix it. It has to be an external solution. Either sign some decent players or hire a better defensive coach (which i am sure Lampard will not give himself the blemish of doing) or get a manager like Conte who prioritizes defence and play boring football again. I am fine with any solution but i prefer the second in the short term and the first in the long term.

[Special Juan 28,141]

Shot as much money at him as you look but him and Jody need to sort out the organisational side of things.

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Then again the same was true for his Derby defense and goalkeeper. in fact most defenses in the championship are weird. Just look at the table, all teams up to 6th place a gd of less than 10. Derby this season have conceded 52 goals already in 40 games which is just 2 less than under Lamps for the whole season. Sure he is not a good defensive coach and i miss the times where you could rely on our defense to not concede stupid goals and shit away winning positions constantly. Give a not so good manager shit defenders and it will be chaos. Give a shit coach like Avram Grant a world class defense and it will be alright. Jürgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola are not exactly great defensive coaches either. They only won stuff as soon as they got a world class goalkeeper and half-decent defenders. Our current defenders wont fix it. Lampard wont fix it. It has to be an external solution. Either sign some decent players or hire a better defensive coach (which i am sure Lampard will not give himself the blemish of doing) or get a manager like Conte who prioritizes defence and play boring football again. I am fine with any solution but i prefer the second in the short term and the first in the long term.

Could care less about what Klopp and Guardiola do. The point is defensive issues has been a problem for Lampard since last season and when you listen to his post-match comments, it is concerning. Every time, he'll almost just brush off the issues like they are nothing and/or blame it on something else. He's almost showing the same negligence or ignorance towards defending like Brendan Rodgers did at Liverpool. Poor defending issues will be Lampard's downfall as a manager if he doesn't sort it out. 

[killer1257 3,282]

Teams with worse defenders than us have defender better as a unit than us. 

Give me examples. Because the teams you think of probably play defensive football.

Rüdiger and AC played a good game against City because the whole team was playing defensive. When we have to win games and Rüdiger and AC have to move more forward, you see their horrible moments

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[Magic Lamps 11,692]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

Could care less about what Klopp and Guardiola do. The point is defensive issues has been a problem for Lampard since last season and when you listen to his post-match comments, it is concerning. Every time, he'll almost just brush off the issues like they are nothing and/or blame it on something else. He's almost showing the same negligence or ignorance towards defending like Brendan Rodgers did at Liverpool. Poor defending issues will be Lampard's downfall as a manager if he doesn't sort it out. 

He brushes it off cos he is constantly grilled about it. Lampard will become a top manager. he has the right philosophy, attitude, professionalism and understanding of the game. (I still think he would be better suited to a technical director role tho)

Anyway, if we had been successful with our bids to sign VVD and Alisson we would even be having this conversation. No manager in the world can be successful with defenders this bad at this level.

[NikkiCFC 8,319]

8 hours ago, Henrique said:

Luiz was by far our best CB. It speaks loud about our lack of quality at the defense.

He was not. Rudiger was much better last season. 

https://www.talkchelsea.net/videos/video-david-luiz-at-fault-for-64-of-chelseas-conceded-goals-this-term/

[NikkiCFC 8,319]

13 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Give me examples. Because the teams you think of probably play defensive football.

Rüdiger and AC played a good game against City because the whole team was playing defensive. When we have to win games and Rüdiger and AC have to move more forward, you see their horrible moments

 

Still no excuses. Last season we had 3rd best defense in the league. 

Now 10 teams conceded less goals than us. 

[killer1257 3,282]

I don’t get this as our defence is still getting exposed anyway. Especially with the Rudi/Chris pairing.

I think that AC and Rüdiger is our worst possible CB combination. I liked Tomori and Zouma the most

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[killer1257 3,282]

He was not. Rudiger was much better last season. 
https://www.talkchelsea.net/videos/video-david-luiz-at-fault-for-64-of-chelseas-conceded-goals-this-term/

I disagree. You just have to look at how Rüdiger defended the goals we conceded after half time. Luiz and Rüdiger both looked clueless.

Rüdiger is still a good one vs one defender but he lacks football IQ, so that is why he fuckes up so much. I have been saying this since last season. Just read my comments on Rüdiger thread

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[killer1257 3,282]

Can someone explain to me why Lampard is trying that horrible combo? No more “it’s a rookie mistake!” excuses because these type of decisions cost us 3 points and cost us a CL place.
He has GOT to stop this BS. It’s not working and it’s killing us.

I agree and Lamps has to stop this Barkley BS.
Also, Kante as a no. 6 is a horrible option.

Lamps needs to find his football philosophy. He had one with Jorgi and Billy as no. 6 and now he went to Mourinho/Conte style of play, which it really does not suit him. Guys like Pep and Klopp can't play the way Conte or Mourinho play

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[Atomiswave 6,117]

Its very concerning this, I will gladly give him time but there are red flags looking right at us here. We still dont know our best 11, we chop and change in every game, horrible organization, in most games we do not defend as a unit at all, cant defend at all. THis is a matter of not being coached right and its clear FL does not take defending seriously, as Jason said his Derby was just as fucked up. Its worrying cuz you cant do shit if you cant defend properly and the basics right.

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Give me examples. Because the teams you think of probably play defensive football.

Rüdiger and AC played a good game against City because the whole team was playing defensive. When we have to win games and Rüdiger and AC have to move more forward, you see their horrible moments

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If you think teams only defend well because they play defensive football, then it is pointless having this discussion. 

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

He brushes it off cos he is constantly grilled about it. Lampard will become a top manager. he has the right philosophy, attitude, professionalism and understanding of the game. (I still think he would be better suited to a technical director role tho)

He will become a top manager once he knows to organize a defence. We have largely the same group of players as last season and we look even more porous. 

Lampard has the right philosophy and understanding? That is debatable since the restart. Tomo has mentioned about the philosophy bit and if Lampard really has understanding of the game, he wouldn't be trying to shoehorn Kante into the XI for the sake of it.