Mata Torres Sturridge - a dream team?

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Was he that bad? He was motm against Stoke...

He wasn't and he has improved from last season. But we can only play with hope for so long till things have to change.. And now that we have more options, it's understandable why people's patience is wearing thin.

[Waterfall 893]

There's a difference between slating and criticizing.

Everyone wants Torres to succeed and start scoring goals and everyone supports him too, but if he's not on form then alternatives have to be considered.

I agree. I desperately want Torres to succeed as well but some of the excuses that are being made for him are just pathetic. That people are willing to compromise the already-unconvincing team for his "confidence" is perhaps worse though.

[SeB 1,281]

To be honest, I dont believe any of our strikers will be scoring goals if we stick to the same starting 11. No matter which striker plays, they hardly ever receive the ball in the box. They end up running back up the pitch. Or when one of our shitty wingers cross the ball, it never reaches them. Mata is the solution to this. He played 20 minutes but his first cross to Torres was probably the best cross any chelsea player has made in a long time.

You are completely right, it's so much easier to bash Torres !

There's a difference between slating and criticizing.

Everyone wants Torres to succeed and start scoring goals and everyone supports him too, but if he's not on form then alternatives have to be considered.

Torres really is the scapegoat of the lack of movement and speed of the team... Anelka is neither Chuck Norris than Torres is, if he wants the ball whereas he leads the attack, he also has to leave his position upfront and we face the same observation: no more movement around the striker, no presence in the box, no quality deliveries especially crosses etc.... Unsurprisingly I won't be surprised if the detractors of Anelka then if he leaves too often his forward role ; are the same who blame Torres now without coherent reasons

Slapping Torres now (but I think that thanks to Mata's arrival and Studge's return these times are behind the team) is not tackle the whole problem at its base, it's just hit the vulnerable part of the shortcomings of the team

[SeB 1,281]

No-one's giving up on Torres, they're saying other options must be considered.

But tell me who could have donne better than Torres in the 3 first games of the season ? He plays in a team with no movement, no pace, no good deliveries, no direct support, an awful winger who invents or discover every week a worse choice than the week before (maybe because il voit rien), another who wants to play sitting in a chair.

There is a reason why Torres is upfront Drogba since the start of the season, I'm sad to say that but Drogba is completely out of form, we saw this against Norwich, he has no success in whatever he tries, he seems heavy, his controls and first touches are awful...

As I said before, Torres is not out of form anymore like he was the whole last season. Now he had his first holidays for almost 10 years, the club did bring him a special fitness coach (at the start of July), he was increasingly gaining form during the pre-season and did look very sharp against Rangers and Stoke... Since these two games, the matter is a collective issue, a tactical issue... Not a personal state of fitness. He does just foots the bill of the provisional weaknesses of the team

[Swoopz 183]

When he went to Anfield, he reminded me a lot of Henry. But he lacks one thing Henry had, which was incredible mental strength. You could have Henry on a team that was 3-0 down, on the verge of utter humiliation and he'd still know he was one of the best strikers in the world and could turn it round on his own if needs be and would put the work in to do it.

Defenders in the EPL just aren't scared of him anymore. They used to dread playing Liverpool because it would mean defending against Torres - now, most defenders in England have figured him out and have the confidence to go in hard against him. Does little for his confidence from the first successful tackle, and so begins the pouting and slumping around the pitch.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

But tell me who could have donne better than Torres in the 3 first games of the season ? He plays in a team with no movement, no pace, no good deliveries, no direct support, an awful winger who invents or discover every week a worse choice than the week before (maybe because il voit rien), another who wants to play sitting in a chair.

There is a reason why Torres is upfront Drogba since the start of the season, I'm sad to say that but Drogba is completely out of form, we saw this against Norwich, he has no success in whatever he tries, he seems heavy, his controls and first touches are awful...

Yes Torres has been better than most forwards for us lately.

And you're right about the lack of service/quality midfield argument still being a valid one. But you're kind of overstating how good he's been in these games. Again, not hating here, wish him all the best blah blah. But even his own personal games goes from really positive to negative.

His first touches are also heavy and his awareness is not as sharp as we're used to seeing. His goal scoring instincts aren't too sharp either, he's had good chances in the games he's played but has allowed himself to bullied by defenders. In his Liverpool days, he could easily out manoeuvre, and outpace such players but now he seems to allow himself to be taken out the game.

I'm not writing him off by any means. But if he doesn't perform how he should, do have alternatives.

Sturridge & Lukaku are both itching to play as a centre forward for this club and are both ready to step up.

[SeB 1,281]

When he went to Anfield, he reminded me a lot of Henry. But he lacks one thing Henry had, which was incredible mental strength. You could have Henry on a team that was 3-0 down, on the verge of utter humiliation and he'd still know he was one of the best strikers in the world and could turn it round on his own if needs be and would put the work in to do it.

Defenders in the EPL just aren't scared of him anymore. They used to dread playing Liverpool because it would mean defending against Torres - now, most defenders in England have figured him out and have the confidence to go in hard against him. Does little for his confidence from the first successful tackle, and so begins the pouting and slumping around the pitch.

You lift a good point :goodpost:

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Torres really is the scapegoat of the lack of movement and speed of the team... Anelka is neither Chuck Norris than Torres is, if he wants the ball whereas he leads the attack, he also has to leave his position upfront and we face the same observation: no more movement around the striker, no presence in the box, no quality deliveries especially crosses etc.... Unsurprisingly I won't be surprised if the detractors of Anelka then if he leaves too often his forward role ; are the same who blame Torres now without coherent reasons

Slapping Torres now (but I think that thanks to Mata's arrival and Studge's return these times are behind the team) is not tackle the whole problem at its base, it's just hit the vulnerable part of the shortcomings of the team

Torres is not a scapegoat.

We've criticised Lampard, Malouda, Kalou, Anelka ect. Some people like to make Torres untouchable from this, because it a "midfield problem" and it's quite annoying. I, also, didn't want Anelka to spearhead the attack, I wanted him to play wide to that Danny can play upfront.. The position he's used to.

[GodZola 630]

Everyone wants Torres to succeed and start scoring goals and everyone supports him too, but if he's not on form then alternatives have to be considered.

I don't necessarily think that's true, some members were boasting that Torres was finished during the close season & I think they would rather see that happen to prove their assumption correct than having to eat some humble pie.

Torres like Anelka & Drogba have been fed scraps, he wasn't 100% fit last season & confidence is a massive thing to lose to any footballer but especially a striker. He is in the last chance saloon, he looks fit, hopefully will get the service now & with that his confidence will return by scoring goals. If he fails after being given a run then he will be replaced but fans should judge him at the end of September when he has been given that service not after so many games of poor service.

I've also stuck up for Anelka many times on here too, he is NOT a winger but fans also wrongly judge him for playing there, played his best football as a lone striker or alongside a big striker - Kevin Davis, I think be has been unlucky in regards starting in his preferred position but I respect him for taking it on the chin & for wanting to stay, he will prove useful as the season goes on & deserves better imho.

Funny thing is we have got arguably 4 world class players fighting for that position which is great but up til now our midfield is poor & that's the area that needs addressing or scrutiny!

[SeB 1,281]

Yes Torres has been better than most forwards for us lately.

And you're right about the lack of service/quality midfield argument still being a valid one. But you're kind of overstating how good he's been in these games. Again, not hating here, wish him all the best blah blah. But even his own personal games goes from really positive to negative.

His first touches are also heavy and his awareness is not as sharp as we're used to seeing. His goal scoring instincts aren't too sharp either, he's had good chances in the games he's played but has allowed himself to bullied by defenders. In his Liverpool days, he could easily out manoeuvre, and outpace such players but now he seems to allow himself to be taken out the game.

I'm not writing him off by any means. But if he doesn't perform how he should, do have alternatives.

Sturridge & Lukaku are both itching to play as a centre forward for this club and are both ready to step up.

But Torres' first touches has always been average, what did make the difference in the past was his speed in short distance to put his defender away.

I think the problem is wider and is a combination of things. The fact is that he needs support around the box, and considering he has one, suddently it frees a lot of things especially in his mind, then his confidence, then what he tries on the pitch. So he is better

Everytime he did have this support last season he played well, it's a shame that he didn't score at Copenhagen by example... Anyway this "Dane"Torres is completely able to score 18-20 goals in a season so when and if he has support I really don't worry about his future success.

And of course I do agree with you, considering there are players such as Lukaku and Sturridge who want/deserve to play, then they have to be considered and it's the most obvious thing in the world

[SeB 1,281]

Torres is not a scapegoat.

We've criticised Lampard, Malouda, Kalou, Anelka ect. Some people like to make Torres untouchable from this, because it a "midfield problem" and it's quite annoying. I, also, didn't want Anelka to spearhead the attack, I wanted him to play wide to that Danny can play upfront.. The position he's used to.

At the point the lone striker has to leave his position to touch the ball there is necessarly a fundamental problem. Anyway Torres is not a victim, he is just misjudged by the what I read everywhere, a lot of people look at the "problem" in a tabloïd way, not considering evident things and bashing him for stupid things

GodZola is completely right, some people seems to want him to crash himself just to satisfy their ego

I do agree with you about Sturridge/Anelka, but otherwise, the what I want to see is if these 3 players (JM10, Nico and Danny) can play together because of their way of playing

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I don't necessarily think that's true, some members were boasting that Torres was finished during the close season & I think they would rather see that happen to prove their assumption correct than having to eat some humble pie.

Torres like Anelka & Drogba have been fed scraps, he wasn't 100% fit last season & confidence is a massive thing to lose to any footballer but especially a striker. He is in the last chance saloon, he looks fit, hopefully will get the service now & with that his confidence will return by scoring goals. If he fails after being given a run then he will be replaced but fans should judge him at the end of September when he has been given that service not after so many games of poor service.

I've also stuck up for Anelka many times on here too, he is NOT a winger but fans also wrongly judge him for playing there, played his best football as a lone striker or alongside a big striker - Kevin Davis, I think be has been unlucky in regards starting in his preferred position but I respect him for taking it on the chin & for wanting to stay, he will prove useful as the season goes on & deserves better imho.

Funny thing is we have got arguably 4 world class players fighting for that position which is great but up til now our midfield is poor & that's the area that needs addressing or scrutiny!

Apart from the first part, this is a good post.

I agree player confidence does play a big part in football. I've also said many times, his attitude has improved this season and he does look hungry to score. He has good players around him now in Sturridge, Mata, Miereles & even Lampard.

The point I've been trying to make here is, if Torres fails to shine, we do have reinforcements in such positions, like you've said. Anelka, Sturridge & Lukaku are all ready to fill in.

[Ollie 4,400]

Mata - Drogba - Sturridge

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I think the problem is wider and is a combination of things. The fact is that he needs support around the box, and considering he has one, suddently it frees a lot of things especially in his mind, then his confidence, then what he tries on the pitch. So he is better

As I've mentioned in my reply to GodZola.. He's got his support now, so now it's time for him to show his individual game.

I actually think Torres can do more with this squad than he already has. He's still a ball playing striker who used to be able to dribble around defenders, not get bullied by them. Again it comes down to confidence. But we've given him the players now, and we've given him the support (with AVB giving him 100% starts this season). Now it's really up to him.

And I think you're being unfair to members who are criticising him too. No-one wants him to fail, I don't buy the "ego satisfaction" story.. This is silly.

[lionsden 4,689]

We have heard of terms such as Glory hunter, spoil brat, Abramovich's boys used as adjective to describe those that dare speak the bitter, unadulterated truth, criticize under-performing players/managers, demand more from the team/club and refuse to settle for mediocrity. Add "ego satisfaction" to that list. You learn something new every day and such is the beauty of life

[GodZola 630]

Apart from the first part, this is a good post.

I agree player confidence does play a big part in football. I've also said many times, his attitude has improved this season and he does look hungry to score. He has good players around him now in Sturridge, Mata, Miereles & even Lampard.

The point I've been trying to make here is, if Torres fails to shine, we do have reinforcements in such positions, like you've said. Anelka, Sturridge & Lukaku are all ready to fill in.

My first paragraph wasn't aimed at you but fans have been trigger happy regarding Torres without given him the benefit of the doubt. I concur that Torres should be benched after a poor spell this term but more importantly AVB has made a point of this & for me this can only be a positive step for our club because AVB will drop the under performers (which was distinctly lacking last season) this will mean players like Torres will have to work their nuts off to get back in the team - no player safe which will keep them on their toes, has to be the right way.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

this will mean players like Torres will have to work their nuts off to get back in the team - no player safe which will keep them on their toes, has to be the right way.

Agreed.

We all hope Torres will rediscover his devastating goal scoring instinct, but if not, I don't think we can say it's because of "lack of service" at the end of the month. Because that excuse can only go so far before it becomes a cliché for all our problems.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Torres seems like a good guy, which makes his struggle harder to bare IMO. I really just want him to start scoring.

[Blue Armour 4,459]

We've criticised Lampard, Malouda, Kalou, Anelka ect. Some people like to make Torres untouchable from this, because it a "midfield problem" and it's quite annoying. I, also, didn't want Anelka to spearhead the attack, I wanted him to play wide to that Danny can play upfront.. The position he's used to.

Also a good point...Considering the form of our forwards, I think he deserves a chance...If form is anything to go by, he should be the one up front considering our pre-season, but I'm pretty sure he's going to be shunted to the wing...

I also hope,that AVB decides to play McEachran at some point in tomorrow's game (if he's fit)...might get something better out of this team...

[GodZola 630]

We have heard of terms such as Glory hunter, spoil brat, Abramovich's boys used as adjective to describe those that dare speak the bitter, unadulterated truth, criticize under-performing players/managers, demand more from the team/club and refuse to settle for mediocrity. Add "ego satisfaction" to that list. You learn something new every day and such is the beauty of life

I have no problem with criticism mate as long as its got foundation & is indeed the truth & not complete bollocks that is posted with pure negativity. I do agree with you & wouldn't settle for mediocrity either but patience is the key.

I'm too old to learn something new everyday but I have the pleasure of being enlightened by the young & the old from time to time that makes me chuckle & that one moment that made me laugh really is the 'beauty of life'