Juan Mata

[The only place to be 11,313]

Well, I think we both know there was a place in the Chelsea team for Juan Mata - you can argue all the crap you like about tactics and pressing, it still won't convince me this is the sole reason for Mata's departure. Chelsea fans need to face the fact that Mourinho wasn't comfortable forging his new side in the shadow of somebody elses buy. Your best player was sold because Jose is very arrogant and wants to build his own side. The lucky thing is, he's good enough to pull it off.

So instead he's built the team around Oscar and Hazard? You realise he didn't buy those two players don't you?

I actually watch Chelsea's games (it's kind of a hobby) and Mata simply didn't fit the system. There's no conspiracy, Mata isn't a bad player he simply can't do the things we need him to do when we don't have the ball. Simple as that.

He wants to build a team who plays a certain way. Mata can't play that way. The funny thing is I doubt many United fans understand what Moyes is trying to build at United. Oh well, if I ever get bored I can trundle over to RedCafe and see the polls that showed that you guys wanted Mourinho as manager, or read a thread about how Hazard isn't as good as Kagawa. Fucking tourists.

[haranr 485]

Well, I think we both know there was a place in the Chelsea team for Juan Mata - you can argue all the crap you like about tactics and pressing, it still won't convince me this is the sole reason for Mata's departure. Chelsea fans need to face the fact that Mourinho wasn't comfortable forging his new side in the shadow of somebody elses buy. Your best player was sold because Jose is very arrogant and wants to build his own side. The lucky thing is, he's good enough to pull it off.

You are so wrong. Also, our best player is Eden Hazard not Juan Mata. Eden Hazard is not just better than Juan, he is SOOO much better.

[JayC 171]

So instead he's built the team around Oscar and Hazard? You realise he didn't buy those two players don't you?

I actually watch Chelsea's games (it's kind of a hobby) and Mata simply didn't fit the system. There's no conspiracy, Mata isn't a bad player he simply can't do the things we need him to do when we don't have the ball. Simple as that.

He wants to build a team who plays a certain way. Mata can't play that way. The funny thing is I doubt many United fans understand what Moyes is trying to build at United. Oh well, if I ever get bored I can trundle over to RedCafe and see the polls that showed that you guys wanted Mourinho as manager, or read a thread about how Hazard isn't as good as Kagawa. Fucking tourists.

Read my posts more carefully, and you'll understand them. Of course I know who Jose has bought, and sold. I keep tabs on most transfer activity.

Mata is perfectly capable of pressing. It doesn't even require good tackling. The main reason for pressing is to fluster your opponent into a mistake - which inevitably comes. It's pressurising them into a mistake. You're telling me Mata isn't capable of running towards a player and putting pressure on him to do something now, and quickly? Come on. I'll admit he isn't perfect for such things, but he could do it and to an effective level.

Yeah Redcafe is full of morons. Nothing like here. Of course you know it all. ;/

I'm not a user/member of Redcafe - but I have been in the past. Lets be honest. Redcafe shits all over this forum for knowledge of the game and player understanding etc. We all know it. I'm not even biased towards it either. Like I said , I don't post there.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Read my posts more carefully, and you'll understand them. Of course I know who Jose has bought, and sold. I keep tabs on most transfer activity.

Mata is perfectly capable of pressing. It doesn't even require good tackling. The main reason for pressing is to fluster your opponent into a mistake - which inevitably comes. It's pressurising them into a mistake. You're telling me Mata isn't capable of running towards a player and putting pressure on him to do something now, and quickly? Come on. I'll admit he isn't perfect for such things, but he could do it and to an effective level.

Unfortunately he's not. You make it sound simple, but it requires a lot from players and Mata simply can't do it. Neither could De Bruyne based on the matches he played. Then when we actually forced turnovers Mata slowed the play down on breaks. If you're going to play with him in the team then you have to do what Benitez did and give him a completely free role, which is great when he's having a great game but creates massive gaps between midfield and attack when he doesn't.

But you've got Moyes in charge so I'm sure he'll work out a gameplan that involves him....although personally I'd go with Rooney as 10. Far more productive this season (9 goals, 9 assists in 16 isn't it? Fantastic return from that position....and now you've spent £37 million on a player who can only play in that position).

. Redcafe shits all over this forum for knowledge of the game and player understanding etc. We all know it. I'm not even biased towards it either. Like I said , I don't post there.

Really? I don't necessarily agree but that's up to you.

But I'm sure I could go on redcafe and get a list of about 12 players that United actually needed to buy but couldn't (Koke, Pogba, Vidal, Herrera etc.) so had to panic buy a guy who was stuck on our bench.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

Don't be so bitter.

One game, one assist for Mata in United RED.

In other news..... Hazard was simply the best tonight. Your best player? I'd be worried. ;p

I mean I lost a seven bet accumulator tonight because of Chelsea and their best player. I took it in good confidence what was said to me pages ago. Guess I shouldn't listen to kids.... my own fault.

You're 7th in the league desperately fighting for Europa league football with Moyes in charge and you're telling us to be worried ?

Also for someone claiming to not be butthurt about Hazard you sure make a lot of butthurt comments about him.

He snubbed you guys and chose the better team. Get over it.

[JayC 171]

Unfortunately he's not. You make it sound simple, but it requires a lot from players and Mata simply can't do it. Neither could De Bruyne based on the matches he played. Then when we actually forced turnovers Mata slowed the play down on breaks. If you're going to play with him in the team then you have to do what Benitez did and give him a completely free role, which is great when he's having a great game but creates massive gaps between midfield and attack when he doesn't.

But you've got Moyes in charge so I'm sure he'll work out a gameplan that involves him....although personally I'd go with Rooney as 10. Far more productive this season (9 goals, 9 assists in 16 isn't it? Fantastic return from that position....and now you've spent £37 million on a player who can only play in that position).

Really? I don't necessarily agree but that's up to you.

But I'm sure I could go on redcafe and get a list of about 12 players that United actually needed to buy but couldn't (Koke, Pogba, Vidal, Herrera etc.) so had to panic buy a guy who was stuck on our bench.

I've made pressing sound simple because it is simple. The only hard thing about pressing is the stamina level required to do it.

It's rubbish that Mata requires a totally free role to flourish. He did play on the wing at Valencia and even at Chelsea at some points, yes? I agree it's not his most productive position, but he's not even close to poor playing there. He wouldn't even play as a convential winger anyway.

As for Moyes - I'm not going to pretend to understand him, because I don't. I'm thinking maybe it's the most obvious thing in the world. Such as a simple 4-4-2 when all players are fit. Two strikers with Mata, in behind. That way he can play all three and retain his beloved wing-play.

Leave the Redcafe thing, I'm not even interested in it. You brought it up and laughed at them - I've told you my view on it, and that's enough.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I've made pressing sound simple because it is simple. The only hard thing about pressing is the stamina level required to do it.

You're right about the second bit, but actually maintaining an effective pressing shape is hard and requires a lot of practice and on-field communication. Mata couldn't handle the physical side of it based on what we saw. He's just not built that way.

It's rubbish that Mata requires a totally free role to flourish. He did play on the wing at Valencia and even at Chelsea at some points, yes? I agree it's not his most productive position, but he's not even close to poor playing there. He wouldn't even play as a convential winger anyway.

No he'd play as an inverted right-winger...except a bit slower. Look, he's your player now. You've bought a top-class number 10 and if you want to stick him on the wing then you're free to do that. Like I said I'm sure Moyes has got pads full of tactical ideas that will make Mata work for you guys....just please don't play him on the wings against City or Arsenal.

As for Moyes - I'm not going to pretend to understand him, because I don't. I'm thinking maybe it's the most obvious thing in the world. Such as a simple 4-4-2 when all players are fit. Two strikers with Mata, in behind. That way he can play all three and retain his beloved wing-play.

Putting Mata into the middle of a 442 stops is from being a 'simple 442'. He's not Keane, he needs to play in the final third and nothing else which means it becomes a 4312 in attack and god knows what in defence. Now that could be a classic diamond but then you're looking at your full-backs doing a lot more and maybe even Rooney dropping back to cover the holes Mata will leave.

Anyway, you've got yourself a great little player and he was probably the highest profile player that Moyes could've signed. Thank fuck you didn't actually sign a proper midfielder though.

[The Skipper 20,609]

I've made pressing sound simple because it is simple. The only hard thing about pressing is the stamina level required to do it.

And bingo. That's the biggest problem Mata had - he didn't have the stamina or athleticism to consistently lead the pressing game for us. He'd always tire out at around the 50/60th minute and it would greatly affect his ability in the final third because he was knackered.

Oscar doesn't have that problem. Our CAM is the one who leads our initial pressing game; we have stages - our forwards press, then the pivot then the defence and our AM leads the forwards; and Mata isn't effective in that because of his lack of athleticism and lack of long enduring stamina.

It's really that simple.

[Tomo 21,751]

Well, I think we both know there was a place in the Chelsea team for Juan Mata - you can argue all the crap you like about tactics and pressing, it still won't convince me this is the sole reason for Mata's departure. Chelsea fans need to face the fact that Mourinho wasn't comfortable forging his new side in the shadow of somebody elses buy. Your best player was sold because Jose is very arrogant and wants to build his own side. The lucky thing is, he's good enough to pull it off.

For the last time Hazard has not been sold

[Tomo 21,751]

My last comment was obviously tongue in cheek. Still, Hazard couldn't do anything against Westham - when you dearly needed it. Those two points could be so costly at the end of the season, and I can't help thinking that if you had a fully fit and confident Juan Mata that is exactly the type of game he would have unlocked.

DId you actually watch the game? i was there and he was doing everything to drive the team forward but it just wasn't our night.

Before you go on about how Mata would have done this and that he played in home defeats to QPR and Aston Villa during his time here aswell as a defeat to you've guessed it West Ham.

[NishC300 1,865]

Remember the two home games with Stoke in 2012? It was a Mata moment of brilliance in both that helped us win 1-0.

It's incredible how fans have just adopted a 'hate' for Mata in an attempt to show they are true 'Mourinhoista'. These same people have been drawing Mata-Zola comparisons for ages and have been talking about how he's a next Chelsea legend etc.

[Weckerz 3,781]

Remember the two home games with Stoke in 2012? It was a Mata moment of brilliance in both that helped us win 1-0.

It's incredible how fans have just adopted a 'hate' for Mata in an attempt to show they are true 'Mourinhoista'. These same people have been drawing Mata-Zola comparisons for ages and have been talking about how he's a next Chelsea legend etc.

Shall we praise him every time he puts a foot right? I respect him for what he did with us but he's a manc now. Time to move on bro.

[NishC300 1,865]

Guy on my Twitter TL calling Mata a traitor.... oh god...

[sk21 11]

Guy on my Twitter TL calling Mata a traitor.... oh god...

hows that strange/surprising? he wanted a transfer to chelseas big rivals.

[bababoom 4,478]

The member Seb on here wrote a very interesting Article about Juan Mata, it's worth the read.

http://theweststandobserver.wordpress.com/2014/01/26/mataphysics-of-a-relationship/