🇪🇸 Juan Mata

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Dude shut up

No I will not, just because my opinion differs from you does not mean I have to keep it shut . Must hurt you so much that you can't ban me for posting since it follows the forum rules.

[The only place to be 11,313]

No I will not, just because my opinion differs from you does not mean I have to keep it shut . Must hurt you so much that you can't ban me for posting since it follows the forum rules.

Just because you can't be banned for posting shit doesn't mean you should make it your raison d'etre. You seem to want to constantly shit on this appointment and bring up increasingly bizarre reasons to do so.

Mata and Joe Cole aren't even in the same ballpark when it comes to their level of ability or even their value to this club.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Just because you can't be banned for posting shit doesn't mean you should make it your raison d'etre. You seem to want to constantly shit on this appointment and bring up increasingly bizarre reasons to do so.

Mata and Joe Cole aren't even in the same ballpark when it comes to their level of ability or even their value to this club.

There is the problem of their defensive contribution. I don't think Jose every really cared about Joe Cole because of it. I think Jose once even bashed Joe Cole on this issue on national television. I can see him doing the same with Mata even though he is such a vital part of the team and try to push him down the pecking order..

And what I say is known as the concept called an opinion. And I'm sorry if a lot of my opinions go against the grain of other Chelsea fans on the club, but I should be allowed to express them on a free forum without people wanting to try and shut me up.

[Leif 6,006]

Joe Cole played as an unorthodox winger in a 4-3-3 formation using his dribbling to get past players and deliver a cross.

Juan Mata plays as an attacking midfielder in a 4-2-3-1, dictating the tempo of the game when he can, relying on his swift movements to get past players.

Joe Cole, being on the wing, was expected to contribute to defending a bit so the flank wasn't exposed.

Juan Mata, playing in the hole behind a striker and being relied on for goals/assists, isn't, won't be and shouldn't be expected to put such an emphasis on defence, and should only need to close down players in his own area as he has 2 defensive midfielders behind him.

Where is this comparison coming from? Joe Cole and Eden Hazard is a comparison. Joe Cole and Moses is a comparison. Ozil and Mata is a comparison. Sneijder and Mata is a comparison.

[The only place to be 11,313]

There is the problem of their defensive contribution. I don't think Jose every really cared about Joe Cole because of it. I think Jose once even bashed Joe Cole on this issue on national television. I can see him doing the same with Mata even though he is such a vital part of the team and try to push him down the pecking order..

And what I say is known as the concept called an opinion. And I'm sorry if a lot of my opinions go against the grain of other Chelsea fans on the club, but I should be allowed to express them on a free forum without people wanting to try and shut me up.

Deco, Robben, Sneijder, Ozil.

None of these players was known for their defensive contribution but they each played key roles in Mourinho's teams. The reason is simple - Jose is a good manager capable of covering his team's deficiencies whilst keeping what they bring to the team.

As for Joe Cole, he wasn't at any of these players levels so it's harder to make a case that he should play when he doesn't bring a huge amount to the team.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Joe Cole played as an unorthodox winger in a 4-3-3 formation using his dribbling to get past players and deliver a cross.

Juan Mata plays as an attacking midfielder in a 4-2-3-1, dictating the tempo of the game when he can, relying on his swift movements to get past players.

Joe Cole, being on the wing, was expected to contribute to defending a bit so the flank wasn't exposed.

Juan Mata, playing in the hole behind a striker and being relied on for goals/assists, isn't, won't be and shouldn't be expected to put such an emphasis on defence, and should only need to close down players in his own area as he has 2 defensive midfielders behind him.

Where is this comparison coming from? Joe Cole and Eden Hazard is a comparison. Joe Cole and Moses is a comparison. Ozil and Mata is a comparison. Sneijder and Mata is a comparison.

Joe Cole was groomed to play in the number 10 role (or at least in a central position) at West Ham. It wasn't until he came to Chelsea that he was pushed in an out wide position. The problem will be is what if Jose does not want to use the 4-2-3-1 system, or any system that uses a number 10 role. What if he wants to favour the likes of Lampard because he still scores every once in a wile. That will be the big question and why I make the Mata and Cole comparisons.

Also, even if he does use a formation that has a number 10 role. He will still want them to contribute a lot defensively. Unfortunately one of his (very, very few) weaknesses is that he is not particularly strong. And I can see Jose not favoring over this, either changing the formation for others or using more physical players in his lace. Again this is due to my fear that he will try and make Chelsea too physical like in his last season and not favour flair and creativity - trying to use the likes of Lampard and Essien to help relive that image. Even at Real Madrid he had to let some players have a free role despite obviously wanting to make the team a counter-attacking one relying on the strength with the likes of Khedira, Ronaldo, Ramos etc.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Deco, Robben, Sneijder, Ozil.

None of these players was known for their defensive contribution but they each played key roles in Mourinho's teams. The reason is simple - Jose is a good manager capable of covering his team's deficiencies whilst keeping what they bring to the team.

As for Joe Cole, he wasn't at any of these players levels so it's harder to make a case that he should play when he doesn't bring a huge amount to the team.

See last post.

Note; Robben was a winger for us, never used in a number 10 role.

[Peace. 4,352]

He does try very rarely but he's just too small and weak for it to matter. Mourinho won't tolerate those deficiencies especially in the big games. I like Mata as much as the next guy but some games don't suit him, there's nothing wrong in admitting that. If we're under the cosh and need everybody to run and press he wouldn't make my 11. That doesn't mean he won't play the other 85% of the time when we dominate the ball and have other teams under pressure.

Yes, his defensive inefficiency can be explained by the fact he is "too small and weak". However, that's not all. I believe that his problems in this matter are not only down to physical issues. To illustrate what Mata lacks to be good defensivly, I'll take an example : Pedro Rodriguez. He is roughly the same size as Mata, and seems to have more or less the same body (I mean in term of muscles, shoulders, etc... See the picture below).

They seem to have the same body bulk. Yet, when it comes to defensive abilities, it's kinda like comparing the night and the day. Indeed, Mata is known to be poor at the defensive job while Pedro, in my honest opinion, is one of, if not the best, forwards in the game when it comes to defensive efficiency. Yeah, it's easy to hate this guy but his work rate is splendid and efficient (and underrated as well).

Despite the fact that Pedro is significantly faster (and has more pace) than Mata, I deeply believe that the differences between them are at a psychological/mental level. I believe that Mata lacks mental features that make Pedro so good in this matter : the aggressiveness and the will. Pedro isn't afraid to go and battle for the ball against someone who's 1,90 m and 85 kg (just an example huh), and even if he fails to dispossess his opponent the first time, he will right away try again. On the other hand, Mata is way too soft and kind — and passive as well. When he goes and challenges an opponent, you can see that his heart isn't 100% in it. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that he doesn't give a fuck and is thinking to something else ; no, it's in the sens that he's too shy, he's on his back foot. Though, maybe if he were to have more muscles, he would be more confident and more incisive...

And finaly, into my eyes, he isn't made for the defense ; he doesn't understand Defense — just like some people don't understand Mathematics (you certainly had in your class someone who always had poor grades in Math, no matter what they were doing) or like some people cannot draw in 3D, etc... I spend a lot of time being focused on players' defensive contribution, especially forwards/midfielders. That is these observations that makes me think that Mata and Defense cannot get along (just like me and Finances lol). When he does try, his contribution is always 'off' ; he is always a few seconds/inches late. He is not in the flow, not in the rythme — just like Kyle Broflovski when he tries to dance ! That's why I say he doesn't "understand" Defense (not in the sens "he's dumb"). And also, his positionning is off, too. That's imo wherein lies the difference between him, and players like Pedro, Iniesta and Xavi.

[The only place to be 11,313]

See last post.

Note; Robben was a winger for us, never used in a number 10 role.

You made no mention of Ozil, Deco or Sneijder but thanks for telling me Robben was a winger.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

You made no mention of Ozil, Deco or Sneijder but thanks for telling me Robben was a winger

They have the benefit that they are taller and more physically stronger then Mata, which if you actually took the time to read my posts properly is why I fear that Mata will not be viewed as favorably.

[The only place to be 11,313]

They have the benefit that they are taller and more physically stronger then Mata, which if you actually took the time to read my posts properly is why I fear that Mata will not be viewed as favorably.

I think you're clutching at straws. I think you've taken a view on Jose's return and decided to bash it at every turn. Yes you may trot out that it's just your opinion, but at least try and make worthwhile observations.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

I think you're clutching at straws. I think you've taken a view on Jose's return and decided to bash it at every turn. Yes you may trot out that it's just your opinion, but at least try and make worthwhile observations.

So what is a worthwhile observation? Something that you agree with? Is it then that it qualifies as a worthwhile observation or otherwise we can just scrap it as useless prattle ?

Excuse me for not being overwhelmed by Jose's return to the club. I have a lot of doubts and fears but using your criteria I shouldn't express it because its not "worthwhile observations", how dare someone go against the grain

[Styles 9,790]

And finaly, into my eyes, he isn't made for the defense ; he doesn't understand Defense — just like some people don't understand Mathematics (you certainly had in your class someone who always had poor grades in Math, no matter what they were doing) or like some people cannot draw in 3D, etc... I spend a lot of time being focused on players' defensive contribution, especially forwards/midfielders. That is these observations that makes me think that Mata and Defense cannot get along (just like me and Finances lol). When he does try, his contribution is always 'off' ; he is always a few seconds/inches late. He is not in the flow, not in the rythme — just like Kyle Broflovski when he tries to dance ! That's why I say he doesn't "understand" Defense (not in the sens "he's dumb"). And also, his positionning is off, too. That's imo wherein lies the difference between him, and players like Pedro, Iniesta and Xavi.

Good post and I know exactly what you mean. The least he should be able to do is close down passing lanes, perhaps Mourinho will be able to coach that into his game. He doesn't have the energy and intensity to be able to press for any substantial amount of time. Mourinho will have to find a way to at least make him less of a liability, if possible, than he is currently when we don't have possession.

[Kojo 4,676]

Deco, Robben, Sneijder, Ozil.

None of these players was known for their defensive contribution but they each played key roles in Mourinho's teams. The reason is simple - Jose is a good manager capable of covering his team's deficiencies whilst keeping what they bring to the team.

As for Joe Cole, he wasn't at any of these players levels so it's harder to make a case that he should play when he doesn't bring a huge amount to the team.

No

Ozil actually works very hard.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Haven't read the whole last page.

But do you really think, one of the greatest managers in the world will dismiss Mata for lampard.

You know why he favoured Lampard over Joe Cole and fit the team around him... Because he was one of the top 3 midfielders in the world. Joe Cole was good and had his moments but was never one of the greatest. And comparing him to Mata, is just crazy because their totally different players, and Mata has so much more capability in him.

Why is there this underlining assumption that apparently Jose only wants to come here to reminisce about the past and joke about with Lamps, terry, cole, essien etc. He knows what he is talking about and i am sure will do what he thinks is best for the club. Lampard will still have a role to play. But that is not something that would be just down to Mourinho as most coaches would want Lampard in their team in some capacity.

[Bl33D BlUe 16]

fcking Farcas

Barca are gonna offer 17m + Sanchez for Mata, Hoping Roman will give his used toilet paper to barca for that

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2013/05/28/barcelona-prepare-17m-plus-player-swap-bid-for-chelsea-playmaker-juan-mata/?

[Jase 43,479]

fcking Farcas

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2013/05/28/barcelona-prepare-17m-plus-player-swap-bid-for-chelsea-playmaker-juan-mata/?

Rubbish source = rubbish story.

[Amblève. 4,995]

fcking Farcas

Barca are gonna offer 17m + Sanchez for Mata, Hoping Roman will give his used toilet paper to barca for that

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2013/05/28/barcelona-prepare-17m-plus-player-swap-bid-for-chelsea-playmaker-juan-mata/?

Coughtoffside... one can only assume why I want more restrictions when it comes to sources...

[Blue Gino 377]

I know nothing about the legitimacy of "El Economisto" but I believe Mata goes nowhere and Chelsea should pursue Thiago after U21 Euros on top of that.

[communicate 2,703]

Joe Cole was groomed to play in the number 10 role (or at least in a central position) at West Ham. It wasn't until he came to Chelsea that he was pushed in an out wide position. The problem will be is what if Jose does not want to use the 4-2-3-1 system, or any system that uses a number 10 role. What if he wants to favour the likes of Lampard because he still scores every once in a wile. That will be the big question and why I make the Mata and Cole comparisons.

Also, even if he does use a formation that has a number 10 role. He will still want them to contribute a lot defensively. Unfortunately one of his (very, very few) weaknesses is that he is not particularly strong. And I can see Jose not favoring over this, either changing the formation for others or using more physical players in his lace. Again this is due to my fear that he will try and make Chelsea too physical like in his last season and not favour flair and creativity - trying to use the likes of Lampard and Essien to help relive that image. Even at Real Madrid he had to let some players have a free role despite obviously wanting to make the team a counter-attacking one relying on the strength with the likes of Khedira, Ronaldo, Ramos etc.

I thought i have quashed this argument about Jose will drop mata if he is awful defensively.

You just need to see Ronaldo. He is awful defensively and he does not want to track back but last time I checked he still play 90 minutes almost all of Madrid game