Romelu Lukaku

[robsblubot 3,544]

1 hour ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

The thing is, fight can make an average player above average. The fight he showed in that burst at the end is something Morata doesnt have in the locker.

heh always thought fans overplayed "fight" and "desire", and something that can be mixed up with overall quality. Lukaku's not a donkey, a terrible player, so he has moments that his descent technique, in conjunction with superior physique, give him an edge; that makes him a good striker, not a great one.

Lukaku has one of the lowest work rate I've ever seen in a striker. When the football is not near him, he's not involved at all.

IMO Morata's issues are related more to his lack of physicality, than his desire That's the easiest (by far) weakness to correct in a player. So much so that we've seen it done hundreds of times before. Whether Morata has the drive to go through it (long hours at the gym), that's a different story. Morata has the technique and creativity that Lukaku will never have, so it makes sense to bet on Morata.

[DYC. 7,542]

5 minutes ago, Robguima said:

heh always thought fans overplayed "fight" and "desire", and something that can be mixed up with overall quality. Lukaku's not a donkey, a terrible player, so he has moments that his descent technique, in conjunction with superior physique, give him an edge; that makes him a good striker, not a great one.

Lukaku has one of the lowest work rate I've ever seen in a striker. When the football is not near him, he's not involved at all.

IMO Morata's issues are related more to his lack of physicality, than his desire That's the easiest (by far) weakness to correct in a player. So much so that we've seen it done hundreds of times before. Whether Morata has the drive to go through it (long hours at the gym), that's a different story. Morata has the technique and creativity that Lukaku will never have, so it makes sense to bet on Morata.

Seriously overplayed. 

[Jase 43,479]

12 minutes ago, Robguima said:

heh always thought fans overplayed "fight" and "desire"

 

6 minutes ago, DYC. said:

Seriously overplayed. 

Funny thing is, without them, we would never have won the Champions League in 2012.

[DYC. 7,542]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Funny thing is, without them, we would never have won the Champions League in 2012.

Quality won Chelsea the majority of their trophies.

Keyword was overplayed. Fight and desire matters but it only gets you so far.

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, DYC. said:

Quality won Chelsea the majority of their trophies.

Keyword was overplayed. Fight and desire matters but it only gets you so far.

True but same applies the other way round too. You can have as much quality as you want but if you don't "marry" that with the fight and desire, you won't get far.

[DYC. 7,542]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

True but same applies the other way round too. You can have as much quality as you want but if you don't "marry" that with the fight and desire, you won't get far.

Is it really that hard to understand? His point was quality matters a lot more. Now if you disagree with that, fine, but I would completely disagree with that. No point arguing either.

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, DYC. said:

Is it really that hard to understand? His point was quality matters a lot more. Now if you disagree with that, fine, but I would completely disagree with that. No point arguing either.

Chill. No one is disagreeing with quality being important. All I'm saying it's just as important as having the fight, desire or whatever you want to call it. Our squad, for example, isn't the greatest but have some quality but have lost far too easily and badly at times to shit teams because the players couldn't give an arse.

[robsblubot 3,544]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

 

Funny thing is, without them, we would never have won the Champions League in 2012.

Even in the example given, fight and desire alone lost that game like many others before. Despite having good players in Mata, Lampard, and Cole.

Drogba's quality got the tie we needed.

It's not only how much more important quality is over desire, but how much more difficult it is to find quality. Top teams never EVER sign players who do not have quality/technique. Medium and smaller sides do sign players who are essentially just pure desire and work rate, but that's why their are smaller.

There is a lot of fight and desire in the lower leagues 

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Even in the example given, fight and desire alone lost that game like many others before. Despite having good players in Mata, Lampard, and Cole.

Drogba's quality got the tie we needed.

It's not only how much more important quality is over desire, but how much rarer is to find quality. Top teams never EVER sign players who do not have quality/technique. Medium and smaller sides do sign players who are essentially just pure desire and work rate, but that's why their are smaller.

There is a lot of fight and desire in the lower leagues 

You are right but at the same time, top teams won't sign quality players if they are lazy or have poor attitude in matches. Ozil is probably an example, which also explains why none of the big teams queued up to sign him like they did with Sanchez.

[robsblubot 3,544]

On 2/26/2018 at 2:45 PM, Jason said:

You are right but at the same time, top teams won't sign quality players if they are lazy or have poor attitude in matches. Ozil is probably an example, which also explains why none of the big teams queued up to sign him like they did with Sanchez.

heh you just cited 2... Ozil played many years at RM. Is Benzema any different? Alexis very similar in my mind - just a bit more decisive with his goals.

I will give you one example of extreme quality and zero (on and off the pitch) desire: Ronaldinho

And he was still a top top player for top teams. Maradona had the same quality and a hell LOT more desire, which made him the FAR superior player.

Of course clubs try to find a balance between technique, work rate, desire, and leadership to have a competitive team, but the higher you go the more difficult it is to employ players without excellent technique, even defenders. That's what Guardiola has been showing us.

Of course once in a while we see a player like R9 (before losing his knees), or nowadays (to a lesser degree) CR, who have it all: quality, desire, and physique.

[Tomo 21,733]

Even with all the heart and desire on the run to Munich 2012 we were outplayed and second best most of the time, we literally got ALL the breaks at the times we needed them the most.

[LAM09 6,810]

Even with all the heart and desire on the run to Munich 2012 we were outplayed and second best most of the time, we literally got ALL the breaks at the times we needed them the most.

More to do with luck & fate. Going down to 10 men at the Nou Camp and still walking away undefeated was something.

Lets hope our current squad take note

[Tomo 21,733]

2 hours ago, LAM09 said:

More to do with luck & fate. Going down to 10 men at the Nou Camp and still walking away undefeated was something.

Lets hope our current squad take note

In a hypothetical world, us winning it this year is 100x more likely than another 2012 story, that victory went against the laws of physics. Go in a similar situation 1,000 times Napoli knock us out 990 times and Benfica would 9. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

I was a big fan of us getting Morata instead of Lukaku for many reasons.

In pure footballing terms, neither is perfect and both have big flaws, but Morata certainly had that superior technique and potential to become complete striker, he looks to have tools for all. 

But what Lukaku has over him has nothing to do with football ability. Its the head. 

What I didnt consider however, is how Morata will adopt here. 

Lukaku was proven and will be there to count at United on every training, every match, he will be commited and prepared.

Morata here whines and complains, falls  down, gets injured, misses Spain and all other bs. One week is in squad, next week not and plays hot and cold. 

Lukaku strenghts are well seen. He is consistent to his ability. He performs, but he has limits and thats why he fails in some games. Morata on other hand could be much much better player than he is, but he just doesnt have it to push himself and prove to Chelsea every week. Just goes the easy way, despite ability. 

Neither is real quality striker, but with Lukaku you know what you got and he is commited. Morata is just unpredictable and doesnt look settled at all. Lukaku wants to succeed in PL, Morata dreams of playing in Laliga for Real. Its obvious, but we have to try to make it work.

 

[Jase 43,479]

6 hours ago, Robguima said:

heh you just cited 2... Ozil played many years at RM. Is Benzema any different? Alexis very similar in my mind - just a bit more decisive with his goals.

Could get away with Ozil's lack of workrate at Real Madrid when you have the freak that is Ronaldo banging 40-50 goals a season and Di Maria helping do the dirty work in the team.

6 hours ago, Tomo said:

Even with all the heart and desire on the run to Munich 2012 we were outplayed and second best most of the time, we literally got ALL the breaks at the times we needed them the most.

If you want to talk about luck, then I suppose one could care less as luck kept screwing us over in the years prior to 2012 when we had far better quality squads than the one that won it.

[Tomo 21,733]

11 hours ago, Jason said:

Could get away with Ozil's lack of workrate at Real Madrid when you have the freak that is Ronaldo banging 40-50 goals a season and Di Maria helping do the dirty work in the team.

If you want to talk about luck, then I suppose one could care less as luck kept screwing us over in the years prior to 2012 when we had far better quality squads than the one that won it.

Don't get me wrong, i don't care and the fact it was so unexpected made it 100000x better. All im saying is we benefited from a hugely unique set of circumstances and all the happy coincidences in ways we are unlikely to see again.

[Blusan Alamb 295]

Missing out on him was the biggest turning point for us this season. It has cost us at least the 2nd placed finish in PL.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

The craziest thing is people still think Morata is better than him.

 

You can enjoy Morata's style of play more, but he isnt better in any remote sense of the word. Lukaku has bossed liverpool. Strong,quick,good in the air. Thats what it takes to get the job done. Morata would have spent the entire first half on the ground looking for free kicks.