Mis-firing Torres

[termninja 5,290]

If he fails this season then I'm not sure I can offer him my support anymore...gotta admit that he's starting to annoy me now already even though I like him.

[DYC. 7,542]

I've kept quiet until now on the whole Torres issue, because I find it an annoying topic, but for me it's very simple. The only way he'll succeed at Chelsea is by changing the way we play. Torres needs space to run into so slow build-up needs to be replaced by (very) direct play. We need a player(s), preferably playing right behind him, who's great at playing the ball quickly behind the opposition defence. I don't see him succeeding in another style of play.

If that happens, he'll score at least 20 goals in all competitions. Torres is a pure goal scorer, you don't lose that. The old Torres would for sure be a certainty for more goals but that Torres is gone (well that's what I think).

[dodojojo 510]

I've not always agreed with everyone who says Chelsea need more creative and technical players to help Torres. Spain has plenty of those players too. But they play a very methodical possession heavy game and it's the antithesis of Torres' game. He really struggles with the tippy tappy stuff.

Ultimately, Benetiz at Liverpool emphasized counter-attacking. Direct and pacey. That's really at the heart of the system that best suits Torres. The issue with Chelsea is that last season it didn't play a pretty possession game. Nor did it play a quick counter-attack style. It was a third style uniquely suited to the long time players already on the team, more about relying on the strength of its players who attacked in slower waves. When successful, it wore opponents down. When it wasn't, it was very turgid play.

I think Torres will do a lot better in AVB's style which is a more direct modified version of Spain's game but it still is not the counter attack style that really makes Torres a happy boy. But it's better than the style played in 2010-11. It's a compromise and it's up to him to wring out the best he can offer in this version. He doesn't really have a choice does he?

4-2-3-1 is a familiar formation for him so that's good. The whole knocking it in the box may not be so especially if it's not a really quick movement. It will mean having Torres play a target man in the box and if the opposing defenders have time to track back, it's really difficult for Torres who needs space. I can see this favoring Drogba more. If it's a style that uses width and crosses into the box but a very quick mode and with plenty of balls for Torres to run onto, then it's much better for him.

[Guest justin_3d]

I've kept quiet until now on the whole Torres issue, because I find it an annoying topic, but for me it's very simple. The only way he'll succeed at Chelsea is by changing the way we play. Torres needs space to run into so slow build-up needs to be replaced by (very) direct play. We need a player(s), preferably playing right behind him, who's great at playing the ball quickly behind the opposition defence. I don't see him succeeding in another style of play.

If that happens, he'll score at least 20 goals in all competitions. Torres is a pure goal scorer, you don't lose that. The old Torres would for sure be a certainty for more goals but that Torres is gone (well that's what I think).

A certain Pastore guy might help in that?

[DYC. 7,542]

A certain Pastore guy might help in that?

Possibly, hopefully.

Even though I don't rate him as highly as a player as many do, Sneijder would probably be the perfect guy to play behind Torres as that's the thing he's absolutely great at. He loves to play balls behind the defence very quickly and is absolutely class at doing so.

Though now that I'm thinking about it, Fabregas would be even better. Can't think of a player who's better than him in playing the killer pass, at a very high frequency, in European football.

[nullabletype 987]

I am already feeling sorry for him for all this bad press he keeps getting.

About 90% of your posts in this thread have been bad mouthing Torres. Now all of a sudden you feel sorry for him because of the bad press he gets?

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

A certain Pastore guy might help in that?

i think thats exactly whats needed

[Guest justin_3d]

About 90% of your posts in this thread have been bad mouthing Torres. Now all of a sudden you feel sorry for him because of the bad press he gets?

Yeah pretty much.

And that he looks desperate to score a goal, like Torres taking that free kick in the last game...

[Guest justin_3d]

Possibly, hopefully.

Even though I don't rate him as highly as a player as many do, Sneijder would probably be the perfect guy to play behind Torres as that's the thing he's absolutely great at. He loves to play balls behind the defence very quickly and is absolutely class at doing so.

Though now that I'm thinking about it, Fabregas would be even better. Can't think of a player who's better than him in playing the killer pass, at a very high frequency, in European football.

You said:

We need a player(s), preferably playing right behind him, who's great at playing the ball quickly behind the opposition defence. I don't see him succeeding in another style of play.

I think Pastore can do that role. While I also see Kakuta doing that role in the coming seasons, but i don't think the manager is that crazy to risk it on Kakuta. So Pastore makes sense for now.

[DYC. 7,542]

You said:

I think Pastore can do that role. While I also see Kakuta doing that role in the coming seasons, but i don't think the manager is that crazy to risk it on Kakuta. So Pastore makes sense for now.

Yeah that's what I said, doesn't mean Pastore is that player though. You thinking he can be that player doesn't change that but I hope you're right if he joins.

[magicrico 175]

Thing is if he hadn't had chances then fair play. he could have bust a gut and got a tap in from Paulo Ferriera. But his attitude is can't be bothered. ALL our strikers who aren't seeing the ball drop deep, collect, create or do something for the team. Drogba always creates for others if things aren't going his way, picks the ball up, powerful. Sturridge comes on and is everywhere, drop deep, pick the ball up and take players on. Torres shows none of the above, no touch, no drive, no goals. He really is grinding me. As much as I want him to do well, I think he will hold us back. I understand people are saying we need to change the way we play, but I don't agree. Look at the goals for Liverpool, not all of them were counter attack, he would collect the ball, take players on, be on the end of crosses. He looks dreadful and literally I would right now bet my bottom dollar ANY of the top 10 teams in the prem, we could take their striker, replace Torres with him and he would give and show more than Torres does..

[DYC. 7,542]

Thing is if he hadn't had chances then fair play. he could have bust a gut and got a tap in from Paulo Ferriera. But his attitude is can't be bothered. ALL our strikers who aren't seeing the ball drop deep, collect, create or do something for the team. Drogba always creates for others if things aren't going his way, picks the ball up, powerful. Sturridge comes on and is everywhere, drop deep, pick the ball up and take players on. Torres shows none of the above, no touch, no drive, no goals. He really is grinding me. As much as I want him to do well, I think he will hold us back. I understand people are saying we need to change the way we play, but I don't agree. Look at the goals for Liverpool, not all of them were counter attack, he would collect the ball, take players on, be on the end of crosses. He looks dreadful and literally I would right now bet my bottom dollar ANY of the top 10 teams in the prem, we could take their striker, replace Torres with him and he would give and show more than Torres does..

There's a difference between direct football and counter-attacking football. Utd play direct football, '09/10 Inter' played counter-attacking football.

[magicrico 175]

There's a difference between direct football and counter-attacking football. Utd play direct football, '09/10 Inter' played counter-attacking football.

No matter what anyone says, it's his lack of movement. He has had chances, times he should have scored, his touch has let him down and he has lacked pace. This whole thing about "changing our wholes style" just to suit him is bull. Any world class striker adjusts their game slightly. Sorry but i refuse to believe Chelsea need to change the way we play just to suit Torres.

[dodojojo 510]

Though now that I'm thinking about it, Fabregas would be even better. Can't think of a player who's better than him in playing the killer pass, at a very high frequency, in European football.

I agree. I like it when Torres plays with Fabregas on the Spanish team. Fabregas does tippy tappy but having played in the PL, he understands Torres too. He and Torres started the Euro 2008 Final and no coincidence Torres was MOTM as the lone striker with Fabregas as the attacking midfielder behind him. They also combined to feed Iniesta for the WC winner (one bright spot for Torres' poor tourney!).

Too bad he's intent on going back to Barca.

PS. having searched for the lineup to confirm my point above, I'm posting the Spain Lineup here:

1-Iker Casillas; 15-Sergio Ramos, 5-Carles Puyol, 4-Carlos Marchena, 11-Joan Capdevila; 19-Marcos Senna; 6-Andres Iniesta, 8-Xavi, 10-Cesc Fabregas, 21-David Silva; 9-Fernando Torres.

Love it. I love Luis Aragones only used one holding MF in Senna rather than Del Bosque's two with Alonso and Busquets. It made for much more exciting football. Spain is still awesome of course, but I remember Spain being spectacularly fun to watch in 2008.

[Guest justin_3d]

I agree. I like it when Torres plays with Fabregas on the Spanish team. Fabregas does tippy tappy but having played in the PL, he understands Torres too. He and Torres started the Euro 2008 Final and no coincidence Torres was MOTM as the lone striker with Fabregas as the attacking midfielder behind him. They also combined to feed Iniesta for the WC winner (one bright spot for Torres' poor tourney!).

Too bad he's intent on going back to Barca.

PS. having searched for the lineup to confirm my point above, I'm posting the Spain Lineup here:

1-Iker Casillas; 15-Sergio Ramos, 5-Carles Puyol, 4-Carlos Marchena, 11-Joan Capdevila; 19-Marcos Senna; 6-Andres Iniesta, 8-Xavi, 10-Cesc Fabregas, 21-David Silva; 9-Fernando Torres.

Love it. I love Luis Aragones only used one holding MF in Senna rather than Del Bosque's two with Alonso and Busquets. It made for much more exciting football. Spain is still awesome of course, but I remember Spain being spectacularly fun to watch in 2008.

But only one striker!

Iniesta, Xavi, Fabgras and David Silva are not your Sturridge or Malouda, but creative and passing players.

In which it can be Pastore, Mikel, Yossi, Josh, and Lampard???

A 4-5-1?