Mis-firing Torres

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

A certain Pastore guy might help in that?

i think thats exactly whats needed

[Guest justin_3d]

About 90% of your posts in this thread have been bad mouthing Torres. Now all of a sudden you feel sorry for him because of the bad press he gets?

Yeah pretty much.

And that he looks desperate to score a goal, like Torres taking that free kick in the last game...

[Guest justin_3d]

Possibly, hopefully.

Even though I don't rate him as highly as a player as many do, Sneijder would probably be the perfect guy to play behind Torres as that's the thing he's absolutely great at. He loves to play balls behind the defence very quickly and is absolutely class at doing so.

Though now that I'm thinking about it, Fabregas would be even better. Can't think of a player who's better than him in playing the killer pass, at a very high frequency, in European football.

You said:

We need a player(s), preferably playing right behind him, who's great at playing the ball quickly behind the opposition defence. I don't see him succeeding in another style of play.

I think Pastore can do that role. While I also see Kakuta doing that role in the coming seasons, but i don't think the manager is that crazy to risk it on Kakuta. So Pastore makes sense for now.

[DYC. 7,542]

You said:

I think Pastore can do that role. While I also see Kakuta doing that role in the coming seasons, but i don't think the manager is that crazy to risk it on Kakuta. So Pastore makes sense for now.

Yeah that's what I said, doesn't mean Pastore is that player though. You thinking he can be that player doesn't change that but I hope you're right if he joins.

[magicrico 175]

Thing is if he hadn't had chances then fair play. he could have bust a gut and got a tap in from Paulo Ferriera. But his attitude is can't be bothered. ALL our strikers who aren't seeing the ball drop deep, collect, create or do something for the team. Drogba always creates for others if things aren't going his way, picks the ball up, powerful. Sturridge comes on and is everywhere, drop deep, pick the ball up and take players on. Torres shows none of the above, no touch, no drive, no goals. He really is grinding me. As much as I want him to do well, I think he will hold us back. I understand people are saying we need to change the way we play, but I don't agree. Look at the goals for Liverpool, not all of them were counter attack, he would collect the ball, take players on, be on the end of crosses. He looks dreadful and literally I would right now bet my bottom dollar ANY of the top 10 teams in the prem, we could take their striker, replace Torres with him and he would give and show more than Torres does..

[DYC. 7,542]

Thing is if he hadn't had chances then fair play. he could have bust a gut and got a tap in from Paulo Ferriera. But his attitude is can't be bothered. ALL our strikers who aren't seeing the ball drop deep, collect, create or do something for the team. Drogba always creates for others if things aren't going his way, picks the ball up, powerful. Sturridge comes on and is everywhere, drop deep, pick the ball up and take players on. Torres shows none of the above, no touch, no drive, no goals. He really is grinding me. As much as I want him to do well, I think he will hold us back. I understand people are saying we need to change the way we play, but I don't agree. Look at the goals for Liverpool, not all of them were counter attack, he would collect the ball, take players on, be on the end of crosses. He looks dreadful and literally I would right now bet my bottom dollar ANY of the top 10 teams in the prem, we could take their striker, replace Torres with him and he would give and show more than Torres does..

There's a difference between direct football and counter-attacking football. Utd play direct football, '09/10 Inter' played counter-attacking football.

[magicrico 175]

There's a difference between direct football and counter-attacking football. Utd play direct football, '09/10 Inter' played counter-attacking football.

No matter what anyone says, it's his lack of movement. He has had chances, times he should have scored, his touch has let him down and he has lacked pace. This whole thing about "changing our wholes style" just to suit him is bull. Any world class striker adjusts their game slightly. Sorry but i refuse to believe Chelsea need to change the way we play just to suit Torres.

[dodojojo 510]

Though now that I'm thinking about it, Fabregas would be even better. Can't think of a player who's better than him in playing the killer pass, at a very high frequency, in European football.

I agree. I like it when Torres plays with Fabregas on the Spanish team. Fabregas does tippy tappy but having played in the PL, he understands Torres too. He and Torres started the Euro 2008 Final and no coincidence Torres was MOTM as the lone striker with Fabregas as the attacking midfielder behind him. They also combined to feed Iniesta for the WC winner (one bright spot for Torres' poor tourney!).

Too bad he's intent on going back to Barca.

PS. having searched for the lineup to confirm my point above, I'm posting the Spain Lineup here:

1-Iker Casillas; 15-Sergio Ramos, 5-Carles Puyol, 4-Carlos Marchena, 11-Joan Capdevila; 19-Marcos Senna; 6-Andres Iniesta, 8-Xavi, 10-Cesc Fabregas, 21-David Silva; 9-Fernando Torres.

Love it. I love Luis Aragones only used one holding MF in Senna rather than Del Bosque's two with Alonso and Busquets. It made for much more exciting football. Spain is still awesome of course, but I remember Spain being spectacularly fun to watch in 2008.

[Guest justin_3d]

I agree. I like it when Torres plays with Fabregas on the Spanish team. Fabregas does tippy tappy but having played in the PL, he understands Torres too. He and Torres started the Euro 2008 Final and no coincidence Torres was MOTM as the lone striker with Fabregas as the attacking midfielder behind him. They also combined to feed Iniesta for the WC winner (one bright spot for Torres' poor tourney!).

Too bad he's intent on going back to Barca.

PS. having searched for the lineup to confirm my point above, I'm posting the Spain Lineup here:

1-Iker Casillas; 15-Sergio Ramos, 5-Carles Puyol, 4-Carlos Marchena, 11-Joan Capdevila; 19-Marcos Senna; 6-Andres Iniesta, 8-Xavi, 10-Cesc Fabregas, 21-David Silva; 9-Fernando Torres.

Love it. I love Luis Aragones only used one holding MF in Senna rather than Del Bosque's two with Alonso and Busquets. It made for much more exciting football. Spain is still awesome of course, but I remember Spain being spectacularly fun to watch in 2008.

But only one striker!

Iniesta, Xavi, Fabgras and David Silva are not your Sturridge or Malouda, but creative and passing players.

In which it can be Pastore, Mikel, Yossi, Josh, and Lampard???

A 4-5-1?

[DYC. 7,542]

No matter what anyone says, it's his lack of movement. He has had chances, times he should have scored, his touch has let him down and he has lacked pace. This whole thing about "changing our wholes style" just to suit him is bull. Any world class striker adjusts their game slightly. Sorry but i refuse to believe Chelsea need to change the way we play just to suit Torres.

It's not like we've had a certain style of play all these years under Abramovich though. Every ('permanent') manager came with their own style.

Let me add that I'm not saying Torres' poor form is because of the way we play. That's all on him. But playing in the way which brings the best out of him, would of course help him a lot.

[Guest justin_3d]

BTW Mikel and Josh can easily do the double holding mid, with Pastore if he comes, and Yossi more advance role.

We will have no wingers, and will truly have to rely on one sole striker like Spain. So that's with Torres.

Will be very hard since our team is used to the 4-3-3, wing type play, then the creative passing play of Spain.

[dodojojo 510]

But only one striker!

Iniesta, Xavi, Fabgras and David Silva are not your Sturridge or Malouda, but creative and passing players.

In which it can be Pastore, Mikel, Yossi, Josh and someone else???

Well, if AVB goes with 4-2-3-1, isn't that one striker? Chelsea have been using strikers as psuedo wingers so that's why it seems normal to have so many strikers on the pitch. Works well for 4-3-3 I suppose. Not sure about 4-2-3-1.

Fantasy football? I would use:

Brana, Luiz, Terry, Cole

Mikel, Modric

Yossi, Pastore, Mata

Torres

And since it's a long season, there are plenty of players to sub all of the above. Josh M for Modric and Pastore. Malouda for Mata, Drogba for Torres, Sturridge for Yossi, Lampard for Mikel, etc. Yossi can go in the middle or wide. No one, no matter how rich their form, is going to play 60 games.

BTW, I listed that Spain lineup as a tangent...it wasn't meant to be for Chelsea. I just love watching that version of Spain. More fun than 2010.

[DYC. 7,542]

I agree. I like it when Torres plays with Fabregas on the Spanish team. Fabregas does tippy tappy but having played in the PL, he understands Torres too. He and Torres started the Euro 2008 Final and no coincidence Torres was MOTM as the lone striker with Fabregas as the attacking midfielder behind him. They also combined to feed Iniesta for the WC winner (one bright spot for Torres' poor tourney!).

Too bad he's intent on going back to Barca.

PS. having searched for the lineup to confirm my point above, I'm posting the Spain Lineup here:

1-Iker Casillas; 15-Sergio Ramos, 5-Carles Puyol, 4-Carlos Marchena, 11-Joan Capdevila; 19-Marcos Senna; 6-Andres Iniesta, 8-Xavi, 10-Cesc Fabregas, 21-David Silva; 9-Fernando Torres.

Love it. I love Luis Aragones only used one holding MF in Senna rather than Del Bosque's two with Alonso and Busquets. It made for much more exciting football. Spain is still awesome of course, but I remember Spain being spectacularly fun to watch in 2008.

Yeah 'Euro 2008 Spain' were a better and more attractive side than the one in the World Cup.

Villa didn't start? Forgot all about that. Audacious move by Aragones.

EDIT: Just read in your post below mine he was injured.

[dodojojo 510]

A 4-5-1?

I think Spain lined up as 4-1-4-1 that day because Villa was out because of injuries. I think when he and Torres played together, it was more 4-3-3.

[Guest justin_3d]

Your fantasy line up is right with what i have in mind with some exceptions:

Brana, Luiz, Terry, Cole

Mikel, Josh

Yossi, Pastore, Kakuta

Torres

That might work???

Sorry Lampard, but with Pastore, you are a super sub.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Meh, Lampard will play DM like he did today.

That's if we do use the 4-2-3-1.

[Guest justin_3d]

Lampard as a DM....that's a bold move.

I still like Mikel and Josh.

You can see it at the end of today's game when both enter, there was more precise passing, and more hard tackles done.

[dodojojo 510]

Yeah 'Euro 2008 Spain' were a better and more attractive side than the one in the World Cup.

Villa didn't start? Forgot all about that. Audacious move by Aragones.

EDIT: Just read in your post below mine he was injured.

Aragones was bold, not crazy...actually he is kinda crazy but he's not stupid. Who would bench Villa?