pachman40

Whatever the reasoning and circumstances for locating the away support in the Shed right now is "water under the bridge" (I really enjoyed that play on words if I do say so myself). With the new stadium there is every opportunity to locate them in the crappiest position for them which would conversely give us the most advantage. Also, there is every opportunity to reunite the home support into a loud strong voice in one location. There is no excuse anyone can give where these 2 situations are not given due consideration and due priority. I don't care if Betty and John have had season tickets for 20 years in one of these locations and have to be moved to accommodate. This opportunity cannot be missed.
Yes, I'm a supporter from across the ocean and I don't understand all the local dynamics. It may be a very simplistic and unrealistic point of view (if that's the case please enlighten me because I'm always up for a history lesson), but if this new stadium does not have a home supporter's stand and does not have the away support in the worst seats in the house then I think somebody deserves a massive smack in the back of the head.

Whatever the reasoning and circumstances for locating the away support in the Shed right now is "water under the bridge" (I really enjoyed that play on words if I do say so myself). With the new stadium there is every opportunity to locate them in the crappiest position for them which would conversely give us the most advantage. Also, there is every opportunity to reunite the home support into a loud strong voice in one location. There is no excuse anyone can give where these 2 situations are not given due consideration and due priority. I don't care if Betty and John have had season tickets for 20 years in one of these locations and have to be moved to accommodate. This opportunity cannot be missed.
Yes, I'm a supporter from across the ocean and I don't understand all the local dynamics. It may be a very simplistic and unrealistic point of view (if that's the case please enlighten me because I'm always up for a history lesson), but if this new stadium does not have a home supporter's stand and does not have the away support in the worst seats in the house then I think somebody deserves a massive smack in the back of the head.

Whatever the reasoning and circumstances for locating the away support in the Shed right now is "water under the bridge" (I really enjoyed that play on words if I do say so myself). With the new stadium there is every opportunity to locate them in the crappiest position for them which would conversely give us the most advantage. Also, there is every opportunity to reunite the home support into a loud strong voice in one location. There is no excuse anyone can give where these 2 situations are not given due consideration and due priority. I don't care if Betty and John have had season tickets for 20 years in one of these locations and have to be moved to accommodate. This opportunity cannot be missed.
Yes, I'm a supporter from across the ocean and I don't understand all the local dynamics. It may be a very simplistic and unrealistic point of view (if that's the case please enlighten me because I'm always up for a history lesson), but if this new stadium does not have a home supporter's stand and does not have the away support in the worst seats in the house then I think somebody deserves a massive smack in the back of the head.

The club has already said that, if the new stadium goes ahead, the plan is for the Shed to become a home area once again. The number of away fans will fall a little which will mean a big drop in percentage terms. If I remember correctly they will be seated at the south end of the east stand, toward the junction with The Shed.
I hope, and expect, that every seat in the new stadium will afford a decent view. The ones I think are designated for away fans do look likely to be those furthest from the pitch however.

Hypocrisy on display for everyone to see. Wenger repeatedly accepts the red after the match, then Arsenal appeal against it and win. Wenger whines about Mike Dean way more vocally and directly than Mourinho and haven't heard a peep about discipline against him. Costa disciplined during the game with a yellow card, but retrospective punishment coming in so small part due to Wenger's criticism of the referee. Blatant, unabashed double standards and making up the rules as they go along by the FA. Ban Diego because of his actions, no problem, but punish everyone with the same consistency, not too much to ask.

Hypocrisy on display for everyone to see. Wenger repeatedly accepts the red after the match, then Arsenal appeal against it and win. Wenger whines about Mike Dean way more vocally and directly than Mourinho and haven't heard a peep about discipline against him. Costa disciplined during the game with a yellow card, but retrospective punishment coming in so small part due to Wenger's criticism of the referee. Blatant, unabashed double standards and making up the rules as they go along by the FA. Ban Diego because of his actions, no problem, but punish everyone with the same consistency, not too much to ask.

Hypocrisy on display for everyone to see. Wenger repeatedly accepts the red after the match, then Arsenal appeal against it and win. Wenger whines about Mike Dean way more vocally and directly than Mourinho and haven't heard a peep about discipline against him. Costa disciplined during the game with a yellow card, but retrospective punishment coming in so small part due to Wenger's criticism of the referee. Blatant, unabashed double standards and making up the rules as they go along by the FA. Ban Diego because of his actions, no problem, but punish everyone with the same consistency, not too much to ask.

Hypocrisy on display for everyone to see. Wenger repeatedly accepts the red after the match, then Arsenal appeal against it and win. Wenger whines about Mike Dean way more vocally and directly than Mourinho and haven't heard a peep about discipline against him. Costa disciplined during the game with a yellow card, but retrospective punishment coming in so small part due to Wenger's criticism of the referee. Blatant, unabashed double standards and making up the rules as they go along by the FA. Ban Diego because of his actions, no problem, but punish everyone with the same consistency, not too much to ask.

Hypocrisy on display for everyone to see. Wenger repeatedly accepts the red after the match, then Arsenal appeal against it and win. Wenger whines about Mike Dean way more vocally and directly than Mourinho and haven't heard a peep about discipline against him. Costa disciplined during the game with a yellow card, but retrospective punishment coming in so small part due to Wenger's criticism of the referee. Blatant, unabashed double standards and making up the rules as they go along by the FA. Ban Diego because of his actions, no problem, but punish everyone with the same consistency, not too much to ask.

if they also did the same to other teams' player who did much, much worse and got nothing.
I don't have a problem with a ban I disagree with, but I have a huge problem with the lack of standards.

Diego is no angel and that's why there are referees and linesmen on the field. He does what he does because he gets away with it and pushes the limits and sometimes crosses the line. That said, if the FA want to clearly establish their lines and review EVERY game on the weekend, not just the ones that the journos highlight, then that will give them credibility and I would accept their decisions. But the way they cherrypick their battles makes you question motives. Others have said it, this kind of stuff happens all the time, doesn't mean I condone it and doesn't mean I like it, but so long as the FA pick and choose when to properly enforce the rules of the game, this sort of thing will always be a part of the game. This is inconsistency bordering on favouritism/harrassment depending on which side of the decisions your club typically fall on. I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch, but I really wonder about some of the decisionmakers' thought processes.

Diego is no angel and that's why there are referees and linesmen on the field. He does what he does because he gets away with it and pushes the limits and sometimes crosses the line. That said, if the FA want to clearly establish their lines and review EVERY game on the weekend, not just the ones that the journos highlight, then that will give them credibility and I would accept their decisions. But the way they cherrypick their battles makes you question motives. Others have said it, this kind of stuff happens all the time, doesn't mean I condone it and doesn't mean I like it, but so long as the FA pick and choose when to properly enforce the rules of the game, this sort of thing will always be a part of the game. This is inconsistency bordering on favouritism/harrassment depending on which side of the decisions your club typically fall on. I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch, but I really wonder about some of the decisionmakers' thought processes.

Diego is no angel and that's why there are referees and linesmen on the field. He does what he does because he gets away with it and pushes the limits and sometimes crosses the line. That said, if the FA want to clearly establish their lines and review EVERY game on the weekend, not just the ones that the journos highlight, then that will give them credibility and I would accept their decisions. But the way they cherrypick their battles makes you question motives. Others have said it, this kind of stuff happens all the time, doesn't mean I condone it and doesn't mean I like it, but so long as the FA pick and choose when to properly enforce the rules of the game, this sort of thing will always be a part of the game. This is inconsistency bordering on favouritism/harrassment depending on which side of the decisions your club typically fall on. I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch, but I really wonder about some of the decisionmakers' thought processes.

There could be a ban like this after every match if this is a precedent FA wants to set. Players throw elbows and shove people around all the time and get no reds.

People will say we only got that much cash because PSG are insane. The PSG moneybags obviously played a big part, but I keep seeing our use of David as tunnel vision whereas other BIG teams have a bigger picture vision of David within their team. Anything 40M and over we absolutely should sell given his current role for us. But I don't think PSG will end up with Torres-esque buyer's remorse. He will be great!

The teams interested in David and the rumoured values they are willing to pay, together with the styles those teams play when compared to ours indicates to me that David's talents, skills, maturity, consistency, leadership, personality, haircut, funny faces, brain cramps, etc... are more suited to a different team playing style. It indicates that these other teams see value in him and shows, to me, that Chelsea are not utilizing him to HIS potential. There is no requirement, rule, or obligation for Mourinho, Chelsea, or anyone in Chelsea's organization to modify the system to accommodate David. It's plain and simple and obvious to most everyone here that David does not suit the strategies/tactics that Chelsea are currently employing. Its also plain and simple and obvious that BIG teams are tripping over each other to try and add Luiz with all of his positives and negatives to their system. Those teams will most likely cater to Luiz's natural instincts and playing style and will gladly accept the wrinkles that will come along with it.
Like I said, no obligation on our part to accept what he brings to the table, no player is bigger than the team. It's just interesting to observe how some teams encourage the individuality while others would encourage the same players to modify their games to fit within the team's structure. It's not an "I'm right, you're wrong" conversation. It's just two different points of view, with each side more than comfortable defending their opinions.

The teams interested in David and the rumoured values they are willing to pay, together with the styles those teams play when compared to ours indicates to me that David's talents, skills, maturity, consistency, leadership, personality, haircut, funny faces, brain cramps, etc... are more suited to a different team playing style. It indicates that these other teams see value in him and shows, to me, that Chelsea are not utilizing him to HIS potential. There is no requirement, rule, or obligation for Mourinho, Chelsea, or anyone in Chelsea's organization to modify the system to accommodate David. It's plain and simple and obvious to most everyone here that David does not suit the strategies/tactics that Chelsea are currently employing. Its also plain and simple and obvious that BIG teams are tripping over each other to try and add Luiz with all of his positives and negatives to their system. Those teams will most likely cater to Luiz's natural instincts and playing style and will gladly accept the wrinkles that will come along with it.
Like I said, no obligation on our part to accept what he brings to the table, no player is bigger than the team. It's just interesting to observe how some teams encourage the individuality while others would encourage the same players to modify their games to fit within the team's structure. It's not an "I'm right, you're wrong" conversation. It's just two different points of view, with each side more than comfortable defending their opinions.

The teams interested in David and the rumoured values they are willing to pay, together with the styles those teams play when compared to ours indicates to me that David's talents, skills, maturity, consistency, leadership, personality, haircut, funny faces, brain cramps, etc... are more suited to a different team playing style. It indicates that these other teams see value in him and shows, to me, that Chelsea are not utilizing him to HIS potential. There is no requirement, rule, or obligation for Mourinho, Chelsea, or anyone in Chelsea's organization to modify the system to accommodate David. It's plain and simple and obvious to most everyone here that David does not suit the strategies/tactics that Chelsea are currently employing. Its also plain and simple and obvious that BIG teams are tripping over each other to try and add Luiz with all of his positives and negatives to their system. Those teams will most likely cater to Luiz's natural instincts and playing style and will gladly accept the wrinkles that will come along with it.
Like I said, no obligation on our part to accept what he brings to the table, no player is bigger than the team. It's just interesting to observe how some teams encourage the individuality while others would encourage the same players to modify their games to fit within the team's structure. It's not an "I'm right, you're wrong" conversation. It's just two different points of view, with each side more than comfortable defending their opinions.

The teams interested in David and the rumoured values they are willing to pay, together with the styles those teams play when compared to ours indicates to me that David's talents, skills, maturity, consistency, leadership, personality, haircut, funny faces, brain cramps, etc... are more suited to a different team playing style. It indicates that these other teams see value in him and shows, to me, that Chelsea are not utilizing him to HIS potential. There is no requirement, rule, or obligation for Mourinho, Chelsea, or anyone in Chelsea's organization to modify the system to accommodate David. It's plain and simple and obvious to most everyone here that David does not suit the strategies/tactics that Chelsea are currently employing. Its also plain and simple and obvious that BIG teams are tripping over each other to try and add Luiz with all of his positives and negatives to their system. Those teams will most likely cater to Luiz's natural instincts and playing style and will gladly accept the wrinkles that will come along with it.
Like I said, no obligation on our part to accept what he brings to the table, no player is bigger than the team. It's just interesting to observe how some teams encourage the individuality while others would encourage the same players to modify their games to fit within the team's structure. It's not an "I'm right, you're wrong" conversation. It's just two different points of view, with each side more than comfortable defending their opinions.

The teams interested in David and the rumoured values they are willing to pay, together with the styles those teams play when compared to ours indicates to me that David's talents, skills, maturity, consistency, leadership, personality, haircut, funny faces, brain cramps, etc... are more suited to a different team playing style. It indicates that these other teams see value in him and shows, to me, that Chelsea are not utilizing him to HIS potential. There is no requirement, rule, or obligation for Mourinho, Chelsea, or anyone in Chelsea's organization to modify the system to accommodate David. It's plain and simple and obvious to most everyone here that David does not suit the strategies/tactics that Chelsea are currently employing. Its also plain and simple and obvious that BIG teams are tripping over each other to try and add Luiz with all of his positives and negatives to their system. Those teams will most likely cater to Luiz's natural instincts and playing style and will gladly accept the wrinkles that will come along with it.
Like I said, no obligation on our part to accept what he brings to the table, no player is bigger than the team. It's just interesting to observe how some teams encourage the individuality while others would encourage the same players to modify their games to fit within the team's structure. It's not an "I'm right, you're wrong" conversation. It's just two different points of view, with each side more than comfortable defending their opinions.

The teams interested in David and the rumoured values they are willing to pay, together with the styles those teams play when compared to ours indicates to me that David's talents, skills, maturity, consistency, leadership, personality, haircut, funny faces, brain cramps, etc... are more suited to a different team playing style. It indicates that these other teams see value in him and shows, to me, that Chelsea are not utilizing him to HIS potential. There is no requirement, rule, or obligation for Mourinho, Chelsea, or anyone in Chelsea's organization to modify the system to accommodate David. It's plain and simple and obvious to most everyone here that David does not suit the strategies/tactics that Chelsea are currently employing. Its also plain and simple and obvious that BIG teams are tripping over each other to try and add Luiz with all of his positives and negatives to their system. Those teams will most likely cater to Luiz's natural instincts and playing style and will gladly accept the wrinkles that will come along with it.
Like I said, no obligation on our part to accept what he brings to the table, no player is bigger than the team. It's just interesting to observe how some teams encourage the individuality while others would encourage the same players to modify their games to fit within the team's structure. It's not an "I'm right, you're wrong" conversation. It's just two different points of view, with each side more than comfortable defending their opinions.

I'll be sad when David leaves, but happy for Chelsea to cash good money for him. Had some good discussions in this thread earlier in the season and it looks as though Mourinho's team sheet had a bunch of round holes. David is a square peg and just didn't have the proper fit in this system. There are a couple of rich teams with some square holes in their defence and it will be good for Chelsea to take advantage of their wallets, but seeing David eventually flourish at Barca or PSG or wherever he ends up will always leave me wondering why we couldn't machine one of our round holes a bit for him, he'll be a legend at his next team. I agree with most people here that we need to cash in on him, but that doesn't mean I need to agree with their opinions of him as a player. Some will say I overvalue him, I will say others undervalue him. In the end it doesn't matter as long as Mourinho uses that money to help fill the holes and we progress as a team next season. That's what we all want, isn't it?

I'll be sad when David leaves, but happy for Chelsea to cash good money for him. Had some good discussions in this thread earlier in the season and it looks as though Mourinho's team sheet had a bunch of round holes. David is a square peg and just didn't have the proper fit in this system. There are a couple of rich teams with some square holes in their defence and it will be good for Chelsea to take advantage of their wallets, but seeing David eventually flourish at Barca or PSG or wherever he ends up will always leave me wondering why we couldn't machine one of our round holes a bit for him, he'll be a legend at his next team. I agree with most people here that we need to cash in on him, but that doesn't mean I need to agree with their opinions of him as a player. Some will say I overvalue him, I will say others undervalue him. In the end it doesn't matter as long as Mourinho uses that money to help fill the holes and we progress as a team next season. That's what we all want, isn't it?

I'll be sad when David leaves, but happy for Chelsea to cash good money for him. Had some good discussions in this thread earlier in the season and it looks as though Mourinho's team sheet had a bunch of round holes. David is a square peg and just didn't have the proper fit in this system. There are a couple of rich teams with some square holes in their defence and it will be good for Chelsea to take advantage of their wallets, but seeing David eventually flourish at Barca or PSG or wherever he ends up will always leave me wondering why we couldn't machine one of our round holes a bit for him, he'll be a legend at his next team. I agree with most people here that we need to cash in on him, but that doesn't mean I need to agree with their opinions of him as a player. Some will say I overvalue him, I will say others undervalue him. In the end it doesn't matter as long as Mourinho uses that money to help fill the holes and we progress as a team next season. That's what we all want, isn't it?

"Right" is in quotations because for some people on this forum there is only one correct decision when defending, one proper philosophy. Defend simply without complicating things and get the ball up to the midfield as soon as possible so they can start an attack. Yes that overly simplifies things, but the way people want David to play is overly simple as well.
I never implied that all British CB's are ball-hoofing neanderthals and you gave a couple of good examples of players who don't fit that traditional British style CB. However, the stereotypical style that British teams play include CB's who primarily sit back and play simple defence, move the ball forward to the mids/attackers and let them take care of the offence. This is not and never was the style that David Luiz plays. Fans, tv analysts, and the team are trying to stuff a square peg in a round hole.
When Luiz makes mistakes like that, nobody is happy including David's fans. We are all resigned to the fact, and are not surprised that he makes mistakes, and we temper that with his creativity and what he adds to the build-up and offense in our team. But there is a faction that is ready to pounce and throw him under the bus at the earliest opportunity while ignoring the positive plays he's made. There is a certain fervour that analysts have when drawing attention to David's mistakes while downplaying or ignoring others who make similar or worse decisions. When somebody makes a mistake that directly results in a goal, it is no different in reality to when somebody makes a mistake that avoids worse consequences. Gary/JT have played great these last few games, but they've also made mistakes which fortunately weren't punished with a goal. Does that mean they defended better? Statistically its black and white, but its not always the case.
There's no denying that somebody is consciously changing David's style. Somebody is telling him to play less risky, don't make those constant runs upfield, stay in line. When he arrived, people thought the guy was nuts, he was so unorthodox, and that was what made him the player Chelsea coveted and spent big money to buy. He may still be that player inside and may end up playing like that under different management or in a different team, but for now he's doing what's asked of him including playing out of position. The way he plays now, I think we can all agree he is not playing to his potential.
No denying the clean sheets and stability Gary/JT are recently providing and I give them credit. But I think we all remember the disaster they were before this recent run. Does anyone remember the runs of clean sheets David has been involved in? Do I need to dig those up? I absolutely want Chelsea to succeed, even at the expense of Luiz, and if that means we are fed a diet of boring defence balanced by individual brilliance up front resulting in 1-0 wins from now until the end of the season then that's fine with me. I've resigned myself to that style given that Mourinho's tactics are reflecting that right now. I'm a Chelsea fan ahead of a David Luiz fan.
I think somebody else here is oversimplifying and insulting me as a fan implying that I'm blinded by cool hair and tongues sticking out. I won't patronize you so there's no need to patronize me. I agree that his form this season as a CB is below what's expected of him, and I choose to take a different view of his play than you do. David Luiz is not playing well as a CB because David Luiz is not playing his natural style. He's been gradually adapting to a less and less risky and more defensive based game and you can see it in his eyes, he's not the same player as he was when he arrived. I'm not trying to place him up on a pedestal by knocking down Gary and JT. Its my opinion. I respect that you're giving him credit for his play in midfield and in honesty that probably suits him better under Mourinho's philosophy. My whole point of the previous post was to say that we are wasting him and when he leaves and flourishes somewhere else there will be some negative nellies here that will blame the board, the manager, the fans, the garbageman, the mailroom staff and say 'he should've been a Chelsea legend", but they are the same people currently riding on the anti-Luiz bandwagon.