Tomo

Not much going on tonight, so i thought i will start a thread on something that has been in my mind for quite a while. It's widely regarded that the Premier League is so strong these days because anyone could beat any one, but the question is, is that because mid table teams have really improved or the top teams just got weaker? When you look back to 2007-2008, Chelsea and United both at the peak of their powers and fighting tooth and nail for the title, if for argument sake those team's existed today, could you see them having much trouble with many of the teams outside the top 7? i can't, i think they would win most of them fairly easily. Obviously they will drop a few points due to law of average's, but in general they would clean up against the lesser teams just like they did then. Which bring's me to the point of whether the PL is stronger now than it was back then, in my opinion no, maybe it's better in terms of entertainment due to the fact no one in the whole league has a great defense, but in a tactical sense, the quality of the PL is far, far inferior to 07/08 imho. I don't believe Barca and Real beat the lesser teams in Spain because they are bad, they do because Barca/Real are that good. A couple of years back when the big games were flooded with goals (8-2 United, 6-1 City, 5-3 Arsenal, 3-1 United/Chelsea all of those games could have quite easily ended up 10-10) pundits/supporters were loving the entertainment, i personally thought it defeated the object of football, the beauty of football is how hard it is to score, hence the mad celebration's when they do. A free scoring game is good every now and again, but when it happens consistently in a short space of time it actually makes a mockery of what football is all about. Take Cricket as another example, if teams started to go all out for around 100, that would defeat the object of how tough it is to pick up wickets. Looking at the mid table teams now i don't think any are as good (maybe Southampton the exception if they even still are a mid table side) as the West Ham team that got to the FA Cup final, the Charlton team that had Darren Bent, Bolton under Allardyce or the Portsmouth under Redknapp's control, the only reason they have closed the gap and claiming more scalps is because the teams at the top today are a pale comparison to the Chelsea, United and even Liverpool teams of the mid to late 00's, in my honest opinion.

Maybe to some extent, his intelligence isn't in question, any one who can change Sir Bobby Robson's mind on a player at the age of 16 clearly has something about them. His lack of man management skills might boil down to him not being a player mind.

Am i the only one who thinks he is good as a 3rd choice squad player? He will never be good enough to play regularly but there is some games that suit him and he gives us another option (Norwich away this season being the main case in point).

Just had a look on statto with our results between 04/05 and 09/10 and fuck me the consistency we had was insane, especially as a defensive unit. We use to go on winning run's, have a bad result then go on another winning run. Clean sheets were picked up like clockwork aswell. Conceding goal's back then were rare and losing games even more so, we were so difficult to beat it was ridiculous, only 12 league defeats in four season's was stupid. Injuries robbed us in 2007 and 2008, we would have probably been looking at 5 titles out of 6 if we got the rub of the green in the treatment table. Hopefully in time Jose can build something similar to that again, i miss the days we were a solid defensive unit, forget the so called "pretty football", going into games knowing one goal was usually enough was amazing.

Also i would like to add that maybe Leti's defense are so good partly because of him also. Having a top class keeper behind instinctively makes the defense more confident, lets say for argument sake Turnbull signed for Leti, when he played that defense won't be looking like the best in Europe, because they will instantly be more cautious and nervous knowing their's a silly error in the keeper.

Competition with goalkeepers is different to the competition with the outfield players, we can't make a tactical sub in goal at the second half. We got lucky with the Cudicini situation due to his patience or lack of ambition whichever way you want to spin it but we can't get away with having 2 world class keeper's, it just ain't practical. Yes have a decent one to keep Cech/Courtois on his toe's (like Schwarzer, Pantilimon, Lindegaard) that can come and fill in if they have a wobble, but the harsh reality is we can never have both at the club at the same time. Ofcourse Courtois won't come and sit on our bench, Barcelona want him, it's not like he is raw 19 year old who still needs fine tuning, he is one of the best around.

Was Willian a selfish bastard again on Tuesday?

West Ham i agree, last night however wasn't the game for him considering we went out for a point. If Basle scored in the first half, then half time would have probably been the best time to haul him on.

I remember before we played Barcelona at The Nou Camp under Di Matteo, many people didn't want Mata to start that match for the same reason he (seemingly) lost his place to Oscar this term. Mata (like every player) has his weaknesses's but because we were so reliant on him (to the point if he didn't turn up we would almost certainly drop points) people were in denial.

So did you not really rate Cech when before 2009 (when our defense started declining)? I remember seeing highlight's of Genk's title winning match when it was 1-1 and they would have lost (the title) if they conceded again and Courtois made some top saves (i think it was posted in this thread at some point). Also being involved in a shit defense and a great one doesn't always go hand in hand, look at Shay Given, he thrived at having his goal battered when he was a Newcastle player but when it came to only being called upon once or twice a game at Man.City, he didn't look half the keeper and lost his place in the side after just over a year.

We won't sell to Liverpool (the Sturridge situation was different because he only had 6 months left on his contract).

So im guessing you were celebrating a couple of years back when we got wacked at home to Arsenal then?

Even tho i am not in the "Ivanovic is a centre back not a right back" brigade, i would start Azpilicueta at right back for this one.

to answer your question i haven;t got an agenda against Mata, im not to keen on people that place player above club, won't deny that.

Im one of the few people around that put the club before anything else.

Bolax, i don't support Mata, but i don't support Jose, unlike some off the children here, i support CHELSEA club comes before individual Im don't blame the shit of the 11/12, 12/13 on Mata starting (i have made my post's on that score) , but oh well, you will get a like of Givorak the Torres fanboy so all good.

The funniest thing about this is i bet the one's moaning about Jose not playing their personal favorite's were the one's moaning about player power when AVB got the chop. Can't have it both ways.

Whats happening at Tottenham now is living proof that spending large amounts of money doesn't guarantee anything. Ofcourse it will help get you a few extra results due to the superior individual quality (like it did for Hughes at City and even now at Spurs) but to build a consistent winning side, you need a lot more than just money.

This time last year we were as good as out of the Champions League and just slipped out of the title race. This time two years ago we well out of the title race and got done at home by Liverpool twice in a week. But hey atleast Mata was playing every week. Thankgod for that hey.

What i don't get is last time (under Mou) Ricardo Carvalho was in and out of the team a bit like Mata is now, but i never saw the bile and crap given to Mourinho about that. Why is that? because Carvalho was just as good a defender as Mata is midfielder.

Which one plays the most short passes and triangles?

When did i say anything about Lampard playing every game? either quote me properly or fuck off.

Criticism is fine, but there is quite evidently numerous people on here with personally driven agenda's (that is not aimed at you just to be clear).

He should play Mata and all our problems will be solved. Haven't you heard we have never lost a game when he has played?

Mata is a great player, but the problem's in the team go well beyond whether he plays of not, seems to be forgotten he came against Basle at Stamford Bridge when we were 1-0 up and we lost 2-1.