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the wes

19. Mason Mount

Started by the wes,

558 posts in this topic
19 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Yes but for the same reason midfield is by a mile our strength so I can understand the idea behind trying the diamond and as mentioned in my previous post, I believe all of our wide players are capable of playing centrally so could still operate in a support striker role behind one main striker.

I do think 4-2-3-1 is probably overall the most suitable formation at present, but I am pleased Lampard is trialling different possibilities and looks to be flexible.

I don't see what RLC coming back though would benefit us reverting back to 4-3-3. RLC could play in the attacking midfield spot and that advanced role should also benefit Mount and Barkley who both operate better higher up the pitch. 

I dont see RLC as a traditional no.10. His main asset is his strength and drive on the ball, rather than his continous movement (aka mount). I feel RLC in a proper no.10 role might be wasted.

Just looking at the scoring return of willian and pulisic and relying on them as our no.1 goal scorers will be too much. CHO looks far more of a traditional winger than a second striker. And pedro is way too hit and miss to be given a nod ahead of proven goal scorers like tammy and michy. I am happy that frank is experimenting and trying to get the best formation, but in my opinion, 4-diamond-2 looks to be the worst fit for the current crop of players.

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4 hours ago, 1905didierblue said:

I dont see RLC as a traditional no.10. His main asset is his strength and drive on the ball, rather than his continous movement (aka mount). I feel RLC in a proper no.10 role might be wasted.

Just looking at the scoring return of willian and pulisic and relying on them as our no.1 goal scorers will be too much. CHO looks far more of a traditional winger than a second striker. And pedro is way too hit and miss to be given a nod ahead of proven goal scorers like tammy and michy. I am happy that frank is experimenting and trying to get the best formation, but in my opinion, 4-diamond-2 looks to be the worst fit for the current crop of players.

I understand with regards to his ability to drive and carry the ball from a deeper position, although I do think that RLC is technically good enough to play that advanced role and playing further forward can only likely benefit his goal scoring which came on massively last season.

I don't think the group are suited at present to play 4-3-3 because I don't think it gets the best out of Barkley and Mount, whilst I also think Jorginho, Kante and Kovacic all benefit playing in a 2 man midfield rather than 3. However we've both touched on Lamps' flexibility so RLC's return may coincide with a new option for him to play 4-3-3 at times as opposed to 4-2-3-1. 

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43 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Unpopular opinion probably, but I’m very impressed with him at United. Yes he was inneffective, but that is down to his selection for this game.

He showed really tight control of the football in really tight spaces. Looking forward to his development.

Nah bar Henrique, for some weird reason, all rated Mount's performance. 

Lampard could even prefer him over RLC when he becomes fit. 

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4 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Nah bar Henrique, for some weird reason, all rated Mount's performance. 

Lampard could even prefer him over RLC when he becomes fit. 

heh yeah

hard to ignore RLC incisiveness as in goals :) but he's likely long ways from getting back to that form.

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4 minutes ago, Robchels said:

heh yeah

hard to ignore RLC incisiveness as in goals :) but he's likely long ways from getting back to that form.

Mount has an eye for goal as well if he carries those same instincts from the Championship. 

It's his pressing and energy levels I find more suitable for Lampard's football. 

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This guy is not ready yet. This is not Championship.

He was painful to watch!

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2 minutes ago, herpthederp said:

He was better than Barkley.

He clearly was not. Terrible decision from Lampard to sub Barkley instead of him.

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Just now, Nicco said:

He clearly was not. Terrible decision from Lampard to sub Barkley instead of him.

Barkley is not famous for having a huge gas tank.

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28 minutes ago, herpthederp said:

He was better than Barkley.

Maybe maybe not, it's hardy the point. Thought both were doing OK, but barkley as a more senior player would've been more likely to influence the game. Like I said, Mount looked promising, but was still ineffective.

37 minutes ago, Henrique said:

This guy is not ready yet. This is not Championship.

He was painful to watch!

Nobody said he was ready, and that was a strange choice by Lamps for me: both starting him and then subbing off barkley instead of Mount in this type of game and considering we were already missing some senior players. Regardless what one thinks of united, this was a difficult fixture.

Still, I see that he has the close control in tight spaces, which makes him a very interesting prospect.

again, Barkley should've remained (for a number of reasons esp goal threat), but that's on lamps with some strange choices before and during the game.

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Regarding Barkley, it feels like Lampard shoehorned him into the XI because of his pre-season form. Ended up playing wide left, which isn't his best position. Could have just gone with Pulisic-Mount-Pedro from the start. 

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9 minutes ago, Jason said:

Regarding Barkley, it feels like Lampard shoehorned him into the XI because of his pre-season form. Ended up playing wide left, which isn't his best position. Could have just gone with Pulisic-Mount-Pedro from the start. 

hmm don't follow.

AFAIK Mount did not play last season, but Ross did. So, the one player shoehorned here was Mount (presumably based on pre-season performances which don't matter one bit).

Like I said, regardless of how promising mount is, and I think he is very promising, this was the sort of game to be a bit more conservative and play the established starters as much a possible. And I think Lampard did not do that at all today. For me the thrashing is on lamps, not the players.

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25 minutes ago, Robchels said:

hmm don't follow.

AFAIK Mount did not play last season, but Ross did. So, the one player shoehorned here was Mount (presumably based on pre-season performances which don't matter one bit).

Like I said, regardless of how promising mount is, and I think he is very promising, this was the sort of game to be a bit more conservative and play the established starters as much a possible. And I think Lampard did not do that at all today. For me the thrashing is on lamps, not the players.

My point is both Barkley and Mount had been used as the No.10 in pre-season and both did well. I wasn't surprised to see Lampard picked Mount given they have worked together last season, in the Championship or not. He started with both and they operated like wingers instead of No.10, which certainly doesn't get the best out of them, certainly not Barkley. 

Lampard's team selection was fine today, IMO. I mean it only had 2 players you would consider young or inexperience at this level - Mount and Abraham (plus Pulisic after he came on) and there were 9 other experienced players out there. It was hardly inexperience. If anything, you might argue Lampard's approach play was a tad too aggressive and not being a little pragmatic, if you like and that the senior players let the team down with poor mistakes/decisions. 

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15 minutes ago, Jason said:

My point is both Barkley and Mount had been used the No.10 in pre-season and both did well. I wasn't surprised to see Lampard picked Mount given they have worked together last season, in the Championship or not. He started with both and they operated like wingers instead of No.10, which certainly doesn't get the best out of them, certainly not Barkley. 

Lampard's team selection was fine today, IMO. I mean it only had 2 players you would consider young or inexperience at this level - Mount and Abraham (plus Pulisic after he came on). There were 9 other experienced players out there. If anything, you might argue Lampard's approach play was a tad too aggressive and not being a little pragmatic, if you like and that the senior players let the team down with poor mistakes/decisions. 

Fair enough on the Mount point. Still, Ross is the more established PL player of the two at this time.

Completely disagree on the second and I 100% blame lampard for the thrashing. I'm very confident both Mourinho and Cconte would've easily avoided the thrashing by being more pragmatic in order to match the challenge.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm arguing, that the approach was nowhere pragmatic enough for the fixture at hand. Starting Tammy in this game was a very questionable choice (being generous here). For ex, does he (over)rate Zouma perhaps? Given that he let luiz go and then played zouma with only two possession cms protecting him in a tough away match.

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12 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Fair enough on the Mount point. Still, Ross is the more established PL player of the two at this time.

Being established doesn't mean being better. 

12 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Completely disagree on the second and I 100% blame lampard for the thrashing. I'm very confident both Mourinho and Cconte would've easily avoided the thrashing by being more pragmatic in order to match the challenge.

On paper, yes but let's not forget that Mourinho hasn't been able to set his teams properly in big games for years now and if you remember with Conte, he set us up to lose only 1-0 at Man City last year and set us not to even bothered tackle them at all. 

15 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Yes, that's exactly what I'm arguing, that the approach was nowhere pragmatic enough for the fixture at hand. Starting Tammy in this game was a very questionable choice (being generous here). For ex, does he (over)rate Zouma perhaps? Given that he let luiz go and then played zouma with only two possession cms protecting him in a tough away match.

The team's structure is definitely not solid yet but it's kinda hard to say for certain that we should have been more pragmatic today. If it was City, Liverpool or Spurs, then I would definitely say we need to be pragmatic but this isn't a great United side. Took the game to them and created a number of chances, had Abraham gotten at the end of that Azpi cross, had we not hit the woodwork in the first half, the game could have been completely different. The individual mistakes made matters worse and United's 2nd and 4th goals probably shouldn't have been counted as well - the former for a foul and the latter was a head injury treatment on Zouma (two United players were apparently trying to stop play).

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