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DavidEU

John Terry

Started by DavidEU,

4,500 posts in this topic
1 minute ago, CHOULO19 said:

From the fact that the club went against its own policy of negotiating contracts in private and made, for the first time I can remember, an announcement that a player has been offered a new contract. The aim is obviously to shift the public pressure on JT and not to make a genuine offer.

But is there a chance that the offer is sincere. Yeah, of course, and I hope more than anything that it is. But based on the manner and timing, I'd say that is INCREDIBLY unlikely.

 

As I've already said in the original post you quoted, this is NOT the point:

 

You're contradicting yourself though because on one instance you're complaining that the offer the club has made isn't genuine or sincere, but on the other hand you're saying being given lower wages or reduced role isn't the point. But what else is going to make the offer seem like a throwaway offer that isn't genuine.

If it's about making the contract offer public, people have panned the club both supporters and the media for being too private and not making any public announcements about Terry's future. Now they have, they're getting moaned at again. They can't win with this unless Terry accepts their offer.

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48 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

 

One crucial difference: JT was telling the truth that the board was trying to hide which was that they were delaying the talks because they don't want to offer him a new contract. There is nothing truthful or sincere in this offer from the board..

Just to be clear, players should absolutely have the right to give a club an ultimatum for knowing their future by Jan/Feb so they have time to plan their next move. It's incredibly dickish from clubs to delay the decision about their futures till the last minute because ultimately they are employees who will be seeking new jobs with families who might have to resettle. 

I think you're letting sentiment cloud your judgement on this Choulo. You're looking at this from Terry's perspective and only from Terry's perspective.

You look at what the board does in an extremely cynical way (board is lying) while looking at what Terry does in an extremely naive and gullible way ( Terry tells the truth).

I mean how do you know the club don't want to offer him a contract ? Their decision to wait until the new manager came in was a very reasonable one.

"There is nothing truthful or sincere in this offer from the board.." How do you know this ?

 

Yes they do have that right but i understand the club not being able to give a conclusive answer at that time(January).

They didn't know at the time who our manager would be so how could they possibly know if our future manager wanted Terry let alone what role he would play if they did.

Conte was confirmed as our manager on the 4th of april. It's now 13th of may. That's less then 6 weeks. I don't think that's an unreasonable amount of time for a new manager to get his bearings, evaluate the squad, talk to the backroom staff, the players and talk to the board about how much money he has to spend while also looking what's available on the transfermarket. All of this needed to be done before he could make an informed decision on whether or not he wanted Terry around.

 

I just don't see any reason to be upset about this. To me the board's stance on this matter is a very reasonable one.

They offered him a contract whether he takes it or not is up to him.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

You're contradicting yourself though because on one instance you're complaining that the offer the club has made isn't genuine or sincere, but on the other hand you're saying being given lower wages or reduced role isn't the point. But what else is going to make the offer seem like a throwaway offer that isn't genuine.

If it's about making the contract offer public, people have panned the club both supporters and the media for being too private and not making any public announcements about Terry's future. Now they have, they're getting moaned at again. They can't win with this unless Terry accepts their offer.

What would make the offer genuine is offering it 5 months ago when JT was telling the club he needs to know so he can sort out his future.

What would make it genuine is not making an announcement about making him an offer 2 days before the end of the season when they don't even make announcement about new signings until hours after it is made official by the media.

They aren't announcing the contract offer because they want to let the fans and the public know what is happening and what they thinking. Till Wednesday they weren't even letting JT know anything about that! :lol:

Also, there is a question of what can be considered a reasonable pay-cut, like the one he took last season from 175K to 150K, and what would be completely unreasonable like cutting his wages by like 50%. If that is the case here then obviously the offer would not be genuine. 

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14 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

Also, there is a question of what can be considered a reasonable pay-cut, like the one he took last season from 175K to 150K, and what would be completely unreasonable like cutting his wages by like 50%. If that is the case here then obviously the offer would not be genuine. 

Sorry but i disagree. 150 k/week is a lot of money. 4 th highest at the club.

He's likely going to be our 3rd choice cb (maybe even our 4 th choice) next season. There's no way he should be earning anything above £100 k a week next season.

For me 70-90 k is perfectly fine for a squad player.

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I think it's a little premature saying "the board's offer is insincere." we don't even know the details of the new contract.
Is it a possibility? Yes, of course it is,it would not be a surprise, but we don't know it for certain.
The timing is a little bit embarrassing, could've been done earlier and set everyone's mind at ease.
Also would earning 75k a week, as a 4th choice cb, be too much of a pay-cut? I don't really think so.
The real dick move is cancelling the farewell party. Bloody cheap bastard didn't want to spend money on a proper cake.

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1 minute ago, CHOULO19 said:

What would make the offer genuine is offering it 5 months ago when JT was telling the club he needs to know so he can sort out his future.

What would make it genuine is not making an announcement about making him an offer 2 days before the end of the season when they don't even make announcement about new signings until hours after it is made official by the media.

They aren't announcing the contract offer because they want to let the fans and the public know what is happening and what they thinking. Till Wednesday they weren't even letting JT know anything about that! :lol:

Also, there is a question of what can be considered a reasonable pay-cut, like the one he took last season from 175K to 150K, and what would be completely unreasonable like cutting his wages by like 50%. If that is the case here then obviously the offer would not be genuine. 

So the club should have offered a contract to him when we had no new manager in place?

And even since Conte has been appointed, I would imagine there has been dialogue between Conte and Terry, the club and Conte, the club and Terry even though nothing concrete has happened. I would also not blame the club for testing the water on possible transfer options, meticulously planning towards next season (because lets be honest we need to!) before they made a firm offer.

Bearing in mind also that Terry has now had five months himself too. If he was told concrete no chance he quite probably would've made up his mind on a next move now. That he hasn't would also suggest that behind the scenes there has been some dialogue and a little light for Terry even if nothing concrete. 

And a significant pay cut would be reasonable IMO, he's 36 and definitely his best days are gone, days that got him wages at that level in the first place.

Don't get me wrong because I love Terry and everything he's done for the club. But people are quick to forget he put Chelsea over a barrel a few years back when City wanted him and got the big pay rise. Now the shoe is on the other foot, Chelsea cannot justify paying him IMO anything over £80k a week. Its how people like Cahill get contracts for £100k per week! 

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8 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

I think you're letting sentiment cloud your judgement on this Choulo. You're looking at this from Terry's perspective and only from Terry's perspective.

You look at what the board does in an extremely cynical way (board is lying) while looking at what Terry does in an extremely naive and gullible way ( Terry tells the truth).

I mean how do you know the club don't want to offer him a contract ? Their decision to wait until the new manager came in was a very reasonable one.

"There is nothing truthful or sincere in this offer from the board.." How do you know this ?

 

Yes they do have that right but i understand the club not being able to give a conclusive answer at that time(January).

They didn't know at the time who our manager would be so how could they possibly know if our future manager wanted Terry let alone what role he would play if they did.

Conte was confirmed as our manager on the 4th of april. It's now 13th of may. That's less then 6 weeks. I don't think that's an unreasonable amount of time for a new manager to get his bearings, evaluate the squad, talk to the backroom staff, the players and talk to the board about how much money he has to spend while also looking what's available on the transfermarket. All of this needed to be done before he could make an informed decision on whether or not he wanted Terry around.

 

I just don't see any reason to be upset about this. To me the board's stance on this matter is a very reasonable one.

They offered him a contract whether he takes it or not is up to him.

 

I absolutely think 6 weeks is unreasonable.

First, it was more than clear and all but official that Conte will be our new manager well before the actual announcement.

In fact, the announcement was delayed while he and the club, among other things, made decisions about his coaching staff for next season. You don't think answer from Conte about JT could have been given? Do you seriously think he didn't give one before he signed?!

There were stories, even from before Conte was made official, and PLENTY in the 2 weeks after he was saying that Conte has already told the board that he wants JT to stay if possible and that he values his leader ship. 

And if there is still any doubt, regarding 'waiting for the new manager', everyone is forgetting that IVANOVIC was offered a new contract well before Conte was made official despite, up until that point in the season, he was probably the worst player, not in the team, but the entire league! 

The pretense couldn't be thinner. The timing alone gives it away.

The board only realized that Conte wants him to stay right when the fans threaten to stage a walkout for him? A few hours before the POTY awards and two days before the last match of the season? In the same week where the board was being criticized in the media for making him arrange his own farewell match? They sure didn't still think they might offer him a new contract when they agreed to rent him the bridge for a night!

 

And finally, yes, you're right. I couldn't care less about the image of the board, but I do care a lot about JT and status and reputation with the fans. 

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8 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Sorry but i disagree. 150 k/week is a lot of money. 4 th highest at the club.

He's likely going to be our 3rd choice cb (maybe even our 4 th choice) next season. There's no way he should be earning anything above £100 k a week next season.

For me 70-90 k is perfectly fine for a squad player.

It can't be absolute, it inevitably will be affected by his current wages. No player in the world would accept a 50% wage cut, let's be real. 

Also he's still one of our least expensive first teammers on overall because there are no amortized transfer fees. See this: http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2014/10/16/6968855/chelsea-ffp-database 

I think anything under 100K would be completely unreasonable and not at all serious.

 

9 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

So the club should have offered a contract to him when we had no new manager in place?

And even since Conte has been appointed, I would imagine there has been dialogue between Conte and Terry, the club and Conte, the club and Terry even though nothing concrete has happened. I would also not blame the club for testing the water on possible transfer options, meticulously planning towards next season (because lets be honest we need to!) before they made a firm offer.

Bearing in mind also that Terry has now had five months himself too. If he was told concrete no chance he quite probably would've made up his mind on a next move now. That he hasn't would also suggest that behind the scenes there has been some dialogue and a little light for Terry even if nothing concrete. 

And a significant pay cut would be reasonable IMO, he's 36 and definitely his best days are gone, days that got him wages at that level in the first place.

Don't get me wrong because I love Terry and everything he's done for the club. But people are quick to forget he put Chelsea over a barrel a few years back when City wanted him and got the big pay rise. Now the shoe is on the other foot, Chelsea cannot justify paying him IMO anything over £80k a week. Its how people like Cahill get contracts for £100k per week! 

Well we offered Ivanovic, one of the worst players in the entire league this season, a new contract without a manager in place...

Except there hasn't been dialog and according to Terry he was not being told anything by the club. He made a couple of interviews at the start of this week and he said what he had been saying all year that there has been nothing new from the club.

You think if there was dialog and he thought there was some chance he'd go out of his way to set up a farewell match and party for himself?

And he did look for plenty of other options. If you believe the papers he was in late negotiations with clubs in China and Qatar.

We can easily afford to pay him 100-120K because any half decent replacement for him, even as a squad player, for even half of those wages would still cost the club more on the balance sheets because there would be a transfer fee that would be amortized for the period of the contract.

But regardless, I can't see any football player, or sports player, or really any employee anywhere agreeing to taking more than 50% wage cut. It's unrealistic to expect otherwise. 

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6 minutes ago, stroey said:

another cheap trick from the club, should treat our club legends better. 

What? 

He got a contract extension, he wont be a nailed starter as expected. Whats the problem?

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35 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

I absolutely think 6 weeks is unreasonable.

First, it was more than clear and all but official that Conte will be our new manager well before the actual announcement.

In fact, the announcement was delayed while he and the club, among other things, made decisions about his coaching staff for next season. You don't think answer from Conte about JT could have been given? Do you seriously think he didn't give one before he signed?!

There were stories, even from before Conte was made official, and PLENTY in the 2 weeks after he was saying that Conte has already told the board that he wants JT to stay if possible and that he values his leader ship. 

And if there is still any doubt, regarding 'waiting for the new manager', everyone is forgetting that IVANOVIC was offered a new contract well before Conte was made official despite, up until that point in the season, he was probably the worst player, not in the team, but the entire league! 

The pretense couldn't be thinner. The timing alone gives it away.

The board only realized that Conte wants him to stay right when the fans threaten to stage a walkout for him? A few hours before the POTY awards and two days before the last match of the season? In the same week where the board was being criticized in the media for making him arrange his own farewell match? They sure didn't still think they might offer him a new contract when they agreed to rent him the bridge for a night!

 

And finally, yes, you're right. I couldn't care less about the image of the board, but I do care a lot about JT and status and reputation with the fans. 

Well like i said in my post i don't.

Well the media knew we were in advanced talks with conte but things could have still gone wrong, for example what if they couldn't agree on his coaching staff. Negotiations have broken down over smaller details then that.

Conte's discussion with the club are a seperate thing for me. First Conte and the club needed to come to an agreement in terms of wages, what was expected of him next season and indeed his coaching staff but i highly doubt any discussion was had about the squad and John Terry before both parties were 100 % sure he was gonna be our manager.

You act as if giving Terry a new contract is/was such a no-brainer. It clearly wasn't though for Conte and the board.

I believe there were also conflicting reports stating Conte did't want Terry and that talks had happened but that there was no change in the situation.

 

I don't agree with Ivanovic getting a new contract but we've had this discussion before i believe.

Ivanovic got a new contract because he's younger and can play 2 positions. Age determines the length of the contract a club can give to the player and the length of the contract determines the value.

Which makes Ivanovic a more valuable asset to the club (purely financially speaking)

 

I didn't say you didn't care about the image of the board i said you're only looking at this from Terry's perspective.

You're not even trying to put yourself in the board and Conte's shoes. Like i said you're just looking at the board in a very cynical way by essentally saying everything the board does/has done has been part of some diabolical plan to get Terry out of the club.

 

Also if this is in fact all a ploy to get Terry out of the club then they've kinda left themselves wide open now haven't they? By offering him a new contract. Only thing Terry needs to do is sign the freakin contract and their supposed diabolical plan falls apart.

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22 minutes ago, Polo7 said:

What? 

He got a contract extension, he wont be a nailed starter as expected. Whats the problem?

Terry:

Quote

'Thanks to everyone for the kind wishes. The contract extension the club has offered me is a different role and I hope everyone will understand I want to take the time to consider it carefully before making a decision.'


Board could have told him long time ago, at a club as huge as Chelsea is these kind of things are normally handled differently, imo.
Roman wants Terry gone, simple as, maybe fed up with his former antics, who fucking knows.
 

@CHOULO19 is fighting a war, explaining it nicely what's the problem, but the poor lad has to go again and again over the same things, but keep up the good work! :)
 

The usual suspects defending the board on this decision, but not today.

 

tapatalk_1462899422391.gif

 

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25 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

It can't be absolute, it inevitably will be affected by his current wages. No player in the world would accept a 50% wage cut, let's be real. 

Also he's still one of our least expensive first teammers on overall because there are no amortized transfer fees. See this: http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2014/10/16/6968855/chelsea-ffp-database 

I think anything under 100K would be completely unreasonable and not at all serious.

 

It's a big wage cut but his role is also going to drop from key player to squad player.

Gonna have to agree to disagree on this.

Next season, if he signs the contract, he'll be a squad player. I don't believe squad players should be making more then a £100 k/week.

70-90 k/week is more then reasonable imo.

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I don't want to keep arguing with Choulo over whether the board is or isn't wrong with their contract offer.

The fact is the offer is there now. The money part shouldn't be an issue. Even if he is having to accept a pay cut to say £80 - 100k per week, the only likely place to pay more than that would be China which let's face it is a huge culture shift for him and his family and poor standard of football. That choice would be all about the payday.

The only part is a reduced role. Terry has to consider two things.

1. Does he back himself to prove people wrong? The assumption may be a reduced role, but if Terry performs well then he'll play games next season simple as that. You cannot predict injuries that others will suffer either. He's been asked to prove himself for these contracts each year and the challenge will again be set. 

2. Terry has been given the option of completing an incredible legacy. He can be a one club player, probably the last of a dying breed at the top level. He has the chance to retire at Chelsea which none of the other top players from that group could do. He also has the chance to carry his legacy on by helping usher in a new era and a new crop of young talent at the club, mentoring the likes of Zouma, and perhaps Christensen, Ake or Clarke-Salter. 

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Oh shit....I'm not crying, I just have something in my eye...and a JT-shaped hole in my heart! :cry::cry::cry: 

 

9 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

Well like i said in my post i don't.

Well the media knew we were in advanced talks with conte but things could have still gone wrong, for example what if they couldn't agree on his coaching staff. Negotiations have broken down over smaller details then that.

Conte's discussion with the club are a seperate thing for me. First Conte and the club needed to come to an agreement in terms of wages, what was expected of him next season and indeed his coaching staff but i highly doubt any discussion was had about the squad and John Terry before both parties were 100 % sure he was gonna be our manager.

You act as if giving Terry a new contract is/was such a no-brainer. It clearly wasn't though for Conte and the board.

I believe there were also conflicting reports stating Conte did't want Terry and that talks had happened but that there was no change in the situation.

 

I don't agree with Ivanovic getting a new contract but we've had this discussion before i believe.

Ivanovic got a new contract because he's younger and can play 2 positions. Age determines the length of the contract a club can give to the player and the length of the contract determines the value.

Which makes Ivanovic a more valuable asset to the club (purely financially speaking)

 

I didn't say you didn't care about the image of the board i said you're only looking at this from Terry's perspective.

You're not even trying to put yourself in the board and Conte's shoes. Like i said you're just looking at the board in a very cynical way by essentally saying everything the board does/has done has been part of some diabolical plan to get Terry out of the club.

 

Also if this is in fact all a ploy to get Terry out of the club then they've kinda left themselves wide open now haven't they? By offering him a new contract. Only thing Terry needs to do is sign the freakin contract and their supposed diabolical plan falls apart.

Sorry, but I just don't agree with ANY of that.

Ivanovic does NOT have any market value. You couldn't pay any club in the world to take him on his current wages. He wasn't offered a new contract because the board thought they would get a fee for him if they wanted to sell him this summer. There is no conceivable scenario where a any club in the world would want to pay money for Ivanovic but would not want JT in their team! He got a contact because the board wanted him to stay, period. 

And JT didn't a contract because the board didn't want him to. It had absolutely nothing to do with Conte, who OF COURSE wants JT to stay as would any top manager in the world.

That's because it WAS a no-brainer to give him an extension. Despite his age and his obvious decline, he was still out best CB this season! And the only remaining leader in a team that couldn't lack leadership and balls more.

But again, it's not about offering him a new contract or not, it's the disrespectful manner they have gone about that from giving him no answers and putting him on hold till the last week of the season to making public announcement about offering him a deal when they know he is extremely unlikely to accept those conditions. 

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