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Joker10

Rumoured Luke Shaw

Started by Joker10,

2,026 posts in this topic

Could Bertrand be world-class? He's 23 years old, played in 200 league games and has 2 England caps and I'm still not sure.

Shaw on the other hand looks special at 17.

Both have potential and neither are finished article just yet. Bertrand might turn out to be the better one, who knows?

It just seems that people want Shaw mainly because he's a Chelsea fan and had a couple of decent performances against us.

Bertrand was patient and worked hard through the ranks to be where he is now. He deserves to have a right go playing at LB before being written off completely. Furthermore, he is still young and developing. All this change in managers recently wouldn't have helped either.

TheCount, ZanSnake, Rmpr and 1 other like this

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I'm not writing him off. I'm saying that after 200 appearances he's yet to convince me that he has the potential to be world-class. It's not a bad thing to present an honest opinion of a player and I see you don't actually offer an opinion.

Yes he's been patient and yes he's worked hard but that doesn't mean shit unfortunately. It's a tough world out there.

Never said it was wrong for you to offer your opinion about Bertrand and Shaw. And me not offering not an opinion there? Deary me.

Clearly said that we should not jump the gun with Bertrand yet. Might end up being the better one. He's a solid young LB who is still developing. Nowhere near a finished article yet.

But be honest - who do you think has more potential right now and who do showed the more promise at age 17?

The fact he's a Chelsea fan is a bonus and he's had good performances in all the games I've seen him in, not just the ones against us.

Even if Shaw has showed more potential at 17, that doesn't mean anything. Lots of player have showed potential at a young age but failed to make it at the very top level. Not saying Shaw won't but it's one thing to have potential and another to have fulfill it completely.

TheCount and Joker10 like this

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Never said it was wrong for you to offer your opinion about Bertrand and Shaw. And me not offering not an opinion there? Deary me.

Clearly said that we should not jump the gun with Bertrand yet. Might end up being the better one. He's a solid young LB who is still developing. Nowhere near a finished article yet.

Even if Shaw has showed more potential at 17, that doesn't mean anything. Lots of player have showed potential at a young age but failed to make it at the very top level. Not saying Shaw won't but it's one thing to have potential and another to have fulfill it completely.

200 appearances. 2 England caps. When do you start to judge a player?

Shaw's a guy who has been thrown into a tough situation and held his own against players twice his age. Not just held his own, but been mightily impressive whilst doing it. What do we do? Wait until he's got a couple of England caps and his price has doubled?

Which player looked better at 17? Shaw or Bertrand?

(The answer is Shaw by the way)

Actually, different question. Which one is better right now?

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200 appearances. 2 England caps. When do you start to judge a player?

Most of those appearances are in the lower leagues. Not sure how much one can really look into that.

And yes, he's only got 2 England caps so far but he's only starting to get into Hodgson's. He's only 23, not 27, 28, 29 FGS!

Shaw's a guy who has been thrown into a tough situation and held his own against players twice his age. Not just held his own, but been mightily impressive whilst doing it. What do we do? Wait until he's got a couple of England caps and his price has doubled?

Which player looked better at 17? Shaw or Bertrand?

(The answer is Shaw by the way)

Actually, different question. Which one is better right now?

Easy to ask that question now and say it's Shaw when he has been a given chance to play consistently at LB while Bertrand hasn't and at times even being played out of position!

Looking at this (short) debate, think it's clear that both of us have our own opinion on this matter. Probably best to just agree to disagree rather than going around the bushes.

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Gareth Bale was a LB at Southampton once. It is obvious what to do....

Joking aside. I think with Ryan we have a very promising LB at our disposal who is a CL winner and probably just as experienced as Shaw, given that Bertrand together with Ashley shut down Ribery (partly Robben) and Lahm. So I think Shaw is not exactly an imidiate transfer. What would be good is to buy him and loan him back to Soton. He gets regular playtime there already, we don´t shit around with Ryan too much and would make sure that Shaw doesn´t get screwed by a hammered board-management-structure....It sounds too reasonable maybe.

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Not many players have shown the potential Shaw has shown "at the top level" at age of 17. He's already a good player in the PL right now, not just another big-name prospect. I've been more impressed with Shaw than I've ever been with Bertrand and that's not to slight the latter.

By the way, Van Aanholdt is doing well at Vitesse right now so he might come into play

The problem is that for a while now there have been plenty of fans happy to slate the club for overspending. When we actually look to acquire young players with promise then they object.

Fortunately the club seems to be following the new direction they took recruiting Lukaku, Courtois, De Bruyne etc. by targetting Shaw before his price skyrockets.

Muzchap likes this

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I wouldn't be upset if he's our only signing in the summer.

I would, very upset in fact. We're okay at the LB position ATM. There are other areas of the squad that need fixing more urgently.

Amblève. and Sheva. like this

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Lukaku, Ba, Torres

Hazard, Mata, Oscar, Moses, Marin, Piazon*
De Bruyne, Mikel, Ramires, Romeu, Chalobah*, McEachran*
Cole, Bertrand, Cahill, JT, Luiz, Ivanovic, Azpi
Cech, Turnbull, Hilario
A backup keeper would be nice and we could use another CB, but I'd be quite happy with the squad.
Maybe I'm higher on Lukaku, De Bruyne and Chalobah than you guys though

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Turnbull & Hilario's contract expire this season if I'm not incorrect. We will definitely get at least 1 new goalie in IMO if that is the case.

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We actually need him, we can loan him back to southhampton for a season. When cole is off we need two good LBs and bertrand/shaw would do the job are young and english perfect match for us..

Dont know why anybody is complaining and buying shaw would not destroy bertrands chances. And he is 17 and already a good LB in the premier league. I would love him here he will be world class in 4-5 years...

Mufassir08 likes this

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We actually need him, we can loan him back to southhampton for a season. When cole is off we need two good LBs and bertrand/shaw would do the job are young and english perfect match for us..

Dont know why anybody is complaining and buying shaw would not destroy bertrands chances. And he is 17 and already a good LB in the premier league. I would love him here he will be world class in 4-5 years...

PVA on loan as well tho. So shaw isnt really needed imo

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Luke Shaw at age 17 has shown far more potential than either PVA or Bertrand in my opinion. He looks like he could be genuinely world-class whereas I'm not sure Bertrand could and PVA is still untested in the Premier League.

Since when is young English talent not needed?

My thoughts excactly mate

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It's rare these days for top footballers to actually support Chelsea in this country. It always seems to be Arsenal or Livershite, with a few of them liking Man Utd.

There'd be more heart in a player who actually supports the club and is a great player than playing some Dutch guy who's suspect at defending yet good at going forward (PvA) and likely supports Ajax or something. There is room for sentiment in football, and when a great player comes along, people shouldn't be so quick to dismiss him.

I can still absolutely not believe he is 17. I haven't seen an English 17 year old be this good since, what, Rooney? Maybe Wilshere?

In an ideal world I'd buy Shaw, bleed him into the team as Cole's deputy and sell Bertrand in part-exchange to Southampton so he can finally be a starting Premier League full-back, maybe with PvA being a back-up option here once Cole leaves and Shaw is #1. I just don't feel either Bertrand nor PvA are good enough for us as starters.

Peace., Mufassir08 and The Mak like this

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Luke Shaw at age 17 has shown far more potential than either PVA or Bertrand in my opinion. He looks like he could be genuinely world-class whereas I'm not sure Bertrand could and PVA is still untested in the Premier League.

Since when is young English talent not needed?

By 19 he could be shite, buy him and loan him out for a few years and see, sure, but Bertrand has earned his place and PVA will be a good back up, plus their different types of players, if you need a more defensive set up bertrands your man, need some attacking? PVA's there, Balance is the key.

Anyway no real point arguing since you've already made your mind up after a handful of good performances against us...ignoring the fact bertrand passed a real test, playing the champion league final admirably.

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By 19 he could be shite, buy him and loan him out for a few years and see, sure, but Bertrand has earned his place and PVA will be a good back up, plus their different types of players, if you need a more defensive set up bertrands your man, need some attacking? PVA's there, Balance is the key.

Anyway no real point arguing since you've already made your mind up after a handful of good performances against us...ignoring the fact bertrand passed a real test, playing the champion league final admirably.

There seems to be this myth that one can only watch players if they're playing us. I've actually seen him in a few games and he's been nothing short of impressive in each.

Shaw could be shit, but isn't that the chance you take with young players? There aren't any guarantees so you judge them on what they show you and he's shown more at age 17 than either of the other two did by age 20. By that logic, don't you think he is a more promising youngster and don't you think we should be in the business of buying promising youngsters?

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