Politics & Stuff

[Spike 12,049]

The wall is ultimately a stupid idea but at least it'll bring a small economic bubble with all the manufacturing jobs and manual labour needed to build it. At the end of the day if it helps foster in more legal immigration over illegal immigration, then I suppose it has done it's job.

[kmk108 1,186]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

The wall is ultimately a stupid idea but at least it'll bring a small economic bubble with all the manufacturing jobs and manual labour needed to build it. At the end of the day if it helps foster in more legal immigration over illegal immigration, then I suppose it has done it's job.

The wall is not going to be built. The cost to result ratio just doesn't work out. People will find a way into the country. Runners make too much money smuggling to just say, "Crap, a wall. I guess we're done." There's plenty of tunnels that drug smugglers use and if you find and close those, more will be dug.

People are estimating that it would cost, at minimum, $25 billion. Regardless of how big of a problem you think illegal immigration is, that is just way too much money that needs to be spent elsewhere.

And then there's this:

Quote

Is a border wall is even necessary in the first place?

According to Pew Research, the undocumented immigrant population has been stable at just over 11 million for the last decade and has actually dropped since a peak of 12.2 million in 2007. “The unauthorized immigrant population rose rapidly during the 1990s and early 2000s, from an estimated 3.5 million in 1990 to a peak of 12.2 million in 2007. It then dropped sharply during the Great Recession of 2007-09, mainly because of a decrease in unauthorized immigrants from Mexico,” Pew Research says. 

While the U.S. has a better handle on illegal border crossings than Trump lets on or understands, he is also dead on wrong on how undocumented immigrants arrive in the U.S. in the first place. According to Politifact as well as The National Review, nearly half of all undocumented immigrants come by plane and overstay their visas. So, while everyone argues whether Trump will build his wall and who will pay for it, we should discuss whether it will make a difference in the first place.

https://www.good.is/articles/what-trumps-wall-looks-like

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

Looks like the Trump Swamp will need to be drained - all his family and pets given positions, in a  level of patronage not seen since ancient Rome or The Sopranos.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Cornel West is one the brightest minds around. This is so brilliant and spot on:

Quote

The Bush and Clinton dynasties were destroyed by the media-saturated lure of the pseudo-populist billionaire with narcissist sensibilities and ugly, fascist proclivities. The monumental election of Trump was a desperate and xenophobic cry of human hearts for a way out from under the devastation of a disintegrating neoliberal order – a nostalgic return to an imaginary past of greatness.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/17/american-neoliberalism-cornel-west-2016-election

[iseah100 5,612]

 someone i know just sent me this, do people really believe immigration can solve poverty?

[lucio 5,395]

15 minutes ago, iseah100 said:

 someone i know just sent me this, do people really believe immigration can solve poverty?

all mass immigration will do , is make things worse in the host country.

it makes countries over crowded, over urban, nightmare for the enviroment.

best we can do is try to help them build up. as well as getting our own homeless into housing.

also some immigrant groups really don't fit in , and behave very badly. I got punched coming home from the library last night, and due to the situation, couldnt really do anything

but this is for europe, maybe things can be done diffrently in america

[lucio 5,395]

seriously fuck off, we don't need your "enrichment". Secure a job and come over fine, but  don't flood the country, and please leave your retarded desert religion and agressive behaviour behind

[Spike 12,049]

13 hours ago, iseah100 said:

 someone i know just sent me this, do people really believe immigration can solve poverty?

It's why a lot of people are pro-immigration. They don't realise that brain-drains affect a country adversely and they don't realise that nations have limited resources and can't handle massive population influx. Take your ancestral country for example; would it be better off with a doctor in Mexico, or a doctor in USA sending money to their family in Mexico. The latter is fantastic because there is a very skilled individual working hard, the latter is fantastic because it provides a higher income to a family that otherwise wouldn't. Really what is the better pay-off?

Immigration is a far more complex issue than a lot of people realise and simply packing bags and leaving can often be terrible. 

[cosmicway 1,252]

Well, if your country is captured by enemy forces or if a communist regime takes it over what else can you do ?
The passengers of St Louis in 1939 were turned back by the Americans and only those who made it to England in the end survived the war. Those who went to Belgium-Holland-France were captured later by the nazis and perished in the concentration camps.
But to the "John Birch society" types in America this was a small matter.
It's exactly the same in today's world.
There are some more who become immigrants because there are international agreements that allow them to do that.
When and if those agreements are placed in doubt and no longer hold -e.g. the NATO alliance- these people find themselves in a vacuum and are hounded by both sides.

 

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,738]

8 hours ago, Spike said:

It's why a lot of people are pro-immigration. They don't realise that brain-drains affect a country adversely and they don't realise that nations have limited resources and can't handle massive population influx. Take your ancestral country for example; would it be better off with a doctor in Mexico, or a doctor in USA sending money to their family in Mexico. The latter is fantastic because there is a very skilled individual working hard, the latter is fantastic because it provides a higher income to a family that otherwise wouldn't. Really what is the better pay-off?

Immigration is a far more complex issue than a lot of people realise and simply packing bags and leaving can often be terrible. 

We cant fault people leaving a country for a better life though. Especially when their country of origins are absolute failure, and have no way of objectively getting better.

[Fernando 6,376]

2 hours ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

We cant fault people leaving a country for a better life though. Especially when their country of origins are absolute failure, and have no way of objectively getting better.

The one thing I want Trump to do is get rid of the criminals who are immigrants. I think most will agree with that. 

Now as to per the regular immigrants my solution would be that if they want to become residents they get chipped. An rfid chip so we can track them for the next couple of years. 

If they accept, grant them the permit to stay, if not they can ofsky. 

And granted we are more friendly because I was just in Dominican Republic and they kick out the immigrants, just like that. They kick out people from Haiti and Venezuela who don't have rights to be here. 

So let's not have double standards here as USA will be not be the only and last country to do this. 

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,738]

1 minute ago, Fernando said:

The one thing I want Trump to do is get rid of the criminals who are immigrants. I think most will agree with that. 

Now as to per the regular immigrants here my solution would be that I'd they want to become residents they get chipped. An rfid chip so we can track them for the next couple of years. 

If they accept grant them the permit to stay, if not of sky. 

And granted we are more friendly because I was just in Dominican Republic and they kick out the immigrants. Just like that, they kick out people from Haiti and Venezuela who don't have rights to be here. 

So let's not cry wolf here as USA will be not be the only and last country to do this. 

Dominican Republic is hardly a nation I feel we should, or even want to, compare ourselves to. Their one shining glory, in their entire history, is that they are NOT haiti lol.

 

I do agree that Immigrants who commit crimes should be punished by us, and then send back to their nation of origin.  No reason they should be allowed to stay.

[Spike 12,049]

5 hours ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

We cant fault people leaving a country for a better life though. Especially when their country of origins are absolute failure, and have no way of objectively getting better.

Some people from failed states bring failed state issues into a their new nation. People are selfish and always look towards how they can help themselves, not society.

[lucio 5,395]

5 hours ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

We cant fault people leaving a country for a better life though. Especially when their country of origins are absolute failure, and have no way of objectively getting better.

true , some populations are reliant on sustenance agriculture, but always face an uphill battle against drought, pestilence, disease ect. the area might not support farming, not a lot can be done. But our countries could easily invest in some better infrastructure there

[lucio 5,395]

I bet we could spend the £608m for nuclear weapons this year  on something good, home or abroad, never understood that.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,738]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

Some people from failed states bring failed state issues into a their new nation. People are selfish and always look towards how they can help themselves, not society.

 

Most people that make the effort to uproot their lives to move elsewhere usually try to give it an honest go at being productive in their communities though. The ones who don't should be shipped out.

[iseah100 5,612]

15 hours ago, Spike said:

On 11/15/2016 at 8:41 PM, Yeboii said:

lol this was nothing about Trump in particular. I was just pointing out how stupid it is to hold someone accountable for changing his opinion on something after 4 years.

The dude is 70 years old and doesn't just change his mind, he contradicts himself nearly on every issue. 

15 hours ago, Spike said:

15 hours ago, Spike said:

It's why a lot of people are pro-immigration. They don't realise that brain-drains affect a country adversely and they don't realise that nations have limited resources and can't handle massive population influx. Take your ancestral country for example; would it be better off with a doctor in Mexico, or a doctor in USA sending money to their family in Mexico. The latter is fantastic because there is a very skilled individual working hard, the latter is fantastic because it provides a higher income to a family that otherwise wouldn't. Really what is the better pay-off?

Immigration is a far more complex issue than a lot of people realise and simply packing bags and leaving can often be terrible. 

I understand that immigration can cause problems in the other countries, but why should the USA try to prevent them from coming? Obviously it's not working for them in their home country and are willing to sacrifice everything and come to a country where they know no one for a better life. That is an incredibly courageous thing to do. If each country could do well for their citizens it would be great but Mexico, and several other Latin American countries have very corrupt governments, which the USA is partly to blame for, who don't look out for their citizens. 

15 hours ago, Spike said:

4 hours ago, Fernando said:

The one thing I want Trump to do is get rid of the criminals who are immigrants. I think most will agree with that. 

Now as to per the regular immigrants my solution would be that if they want to become residents they get chipped. An rfid chip so we can track them for the next couple of years. 

If they accept, grant them the permit to stay, if not they can ofsky. 

And granted we are more friendly because I was just in Dominican Republic and they kick out the immigrants, just like that. They kick out people from Haiti and Venezuela who don't have rights to be here. 

So let's not have double standards here as USA will be not be the only and last country to do this. 

You cannot be serious....1. That would violate the US Constitution. 2. Dominican Republic, Haiti, and Venezuela are 3rd world countries, not superpowers. 3. Who the fuck immigrates to those countries?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

Some people from failed states bring failed state issues into a their new nation. People are selfish and always look towards how they can help themselves, not society.

People. Are. NOT. Always. Selfish.

Fuck that idiotic, cynical, post-capitalism, consumerist-apologistic view of humanity!