Wishlist Cristiano Ronaldo

[iseah100 5,612]

Go ask Jose who he would take out of the 3.

He said they are all good, but he wouldn't take any of them over any of his current players.

[HD3D 1,038]

This is one of the shittiest arguments ever. If that was true, everyone would be Pele/Cruyff in those times, if the defenders were shitty and not athletic why didn't every attacking player shit on them like Pele/Cruyff? Were the other attacking players facing different and better defenders? I don't think so. Also, if Pele/Cruyff were athletic when others weren't or if they took it more seriously than other professional players, kudos to them, they understood what it took to win better than the others.

According to your logic, let's say in some years from now everyone is born from genetic selection, people are then gonna say Messi wasn't actually that good because he played against natural born people who weren't the best genetic composition their parents or the human race could offer? Gimme a break - Pele, Cruyff and Messi were playing under the same conditions as everybody else from their respective professional times, if they stood out from everybody is because they were incredible, they were ahead of the bunch. That's what makes them legends of the game.

His argument is actually valid. Pele, for example, played before the tactical revolution of total football. He played at a time where small teams were cannon fodder to be beaten 10-0 in a lot of games. Not unlike today where it's not uncommon for a small team to beat a big one (e.g. Leicester vs United) if the managers do a good job. Football is much more tactical and organized. Today players like Messi and Cristiano are given a very specific list of instructions whereas back then, the star of the team was just told to get in there and try to score goals.

Besides, today the very best players from all continents are concentrated in Europe. Even small teams have players from all over the world. Which means players like Messi and Cristiano are competing at a level that Pele, for example, never had to deal with. Not even close.

I do believe the top players today are much better than the ones from past generations. And certainly football will continue to evolve and 50 years from now those generations will be even better than the ones from today.

[Dion 2,476]

His argument is actually valid. Pele, for example, played before the tactical revolution of total football. He played at a time where small teams were cannon fodder to be beaten 10-0 in a lot of games. Not unlike today where it's not uncommon for a small team to beat a big one (e.g. Leicester vs United) if the managers do a good job. Football is much more tactical and organized. Today players like Messi and Cristiano are given a very specific list of instructions whereas back then, the star of the team was just told to get in there and try to score goals.

Besides, today the very best players from all continents are concentrated in Europe. Even small teams have players from all over the world. Which means players like Messi and Cristiano are competing at a level that Pele, for example, never had to deal with. Not even close.

I do believe the top players today are much better than the ones from past generations. And certainly football will continue to evolve and 50 years from now those generations will be even better than the ones from today.

Nothing from what you said goes against my argument - the cannon fodder were there for everyone, not just for the greats of football. It's the same to the tactical side, everyone was lacking, it was not like Pele's team (Santos) had it any better than anyone else tactically speaking. And besides, there is still a lot of cannon fodder today - it's just that Leicester is a good team in the EPL, the most balanced from the top european leagues (and even then there's quite a gap, it's more about Man Utd struggling than Leicester being a super team). But look at the La Liga or Bundesliga, the small teams rarely ever beat the top teams and it's not uncommon for them to get thrashed really hard - RM and Barça have just thrashed some teams in their last games. And if anything, it's the opposite, you got it backwards, today the smaller teams have bigger gaps to close than in those times, just look at England, the domestic league winners used to vary a lot but now the gap between the best teams and the weaker ones is such that you know the teams who have a chance to win from the very beginning. Just look at the time frame from 50 to 70 which is close to the same as Pele's professional carreer - there were 11 different teams winning the most important domestic league in England. Do you reckon there will be 11 different teams winning the major leagues in the next years? I don't think so. For example, in the last 20 years only 5 have won it and just because Blackburn has managed a title, otherwise only Chelsea, Manchester Utd, Manchester City and Arsenal would have won it.

One could even say the fact it was more amateurish and less tactical made it more even and fair to every player back then, whereas now, the stellar squads the top teams have leave little room for anyone else to have a shot at the championships, these top teams have better players and usually also better managers - so they're on top in every regard. The only valid argument against past legends is about their numbers, because of differences between football ages, some ages had higher average goals scored and things like that, but I don't think I have seen people comparing stars from different timeframes with the argument that X is better than Y because X has 1000 goals and Y has 500.

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

Go ask Jose who he would take out of the 3.

Haha, like he wouldn't buy Messi if he had the chance.

[johnnythefirst 1,076]

His argument is actually valid. Pele, for example, played before the tactical revolution of total football. He played at a time where small teams were cannon fodder to be beaten 10-0 in a lot of games. Not unlike today where it's not uncommon for a small team to beat a big one (e.g. Leicester vs United) if the managers do a good job. Football is much more tactical and organized. Today players like Messi and Cristiano are given a very specific list of instructions whereas back then, the star of the team was just told to get in there and try to score goals.

Besides, today the very best players from all continents are concentrated in Europe. Even small teams have players from all over the world. Which means players like Messi and Cristiano are competing at a level that Pele, for example, never had to deal with. Not even close.

I do believe the top players today are much better than the ones from past generations. And certainly football will continue to evolve and 50 years from now those generations will be even better than the ones from today.

Thanks!

Just look at the current world cup and at how hard it is to beat the smaller teams once they've learned how to organise their defense. Remember for example Algeria? All of the major countries would have eaten a small African one like them up 40 years ago.

Although it is kind of unfair to compare generations, there's no doubt professional football players have to work much, much harder to get to a decent level today. No slackers allowed. The fact that Messi and Ronaldo can get Pele-like stats (ok, playing for the best teams of the era) in a period where the average defender is an athlete and has more technical qualities than the average No 10 in the seventies (Kompany, to name just one), in a period where nearly every smaller team parks the bus against them, in a period where almost every manager is a decent tactician, is insane.

Look at matches from earlier eras, look how the defenders just stand there, like it's some kind of magician they're playing against. I'm not saying Pele wouldn't have turned out as good if he was born in 1990, but we'll never know.

[Special Juan 27,424]

Just an insane scoring record, not even funny that he's scored 25 hatricks.

[Beigl 1,387]

Just an insane scoring record, not even funny that he's scored 25 hatricks.

Lol. He scored more hattricks for Madrid than Torres scored BPL goals for us.

[sutro 1,026]

Cristiano Ronaldo, the greatest player of his generation

Lionel Messi, the greatest player ever

simple.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Cristiano Ronaldo, the greatest player of his generation

Lionel Messi, the greatest player ever

simple.

I think you can only have 'greatest of a generation' though. Football continues to involve, emphasis moves from attack to defence etc.

Would Eusebio, Pele or Maradona have been as great today as they were in their generation?

Someone older would say Maradona > Messi. Someone in maybe 10-15 years would begin saying Hazard > Messi. It's all relative to the generation you're taking about.

[Nike 373]

Cristiano Ronaldo, the greatest player of his generation

Lionel Messi, the greatest player ever

simple.

How is this possible, since Messi and Cristiano are in the same generation???

[Nike 373]

His argument is actually valid. Pele, for example, played before the tactical revolution of total football. He played at a time where small teams were cannon fodder to be beaten 10-0 in a lot of games. Not unlike today where it's not uncommon for a small team to beat a big one (e.g. Leicester vs United) if the managers do a good job. Football is much more tactical and organized. Today players like Messi and Cristiano are given a very specific list of instructions whereas back then, the star of the team was just told to get in there and try to score goals.

Besides, today the very best players from all continents are concentrated in Europe. Even small teams have players from all over the world. Which means players like Messi and Cristiano are competing at a level that Pele, for example, never had to deal with. Not even close.

I do believe the top players today are much better than the ones from past generations. And certainly football will continue to evolve and 50 years from now those generations will be even better than the ones from today.

Real Madrid always beats small teams 10-0 and Cristiano usually scores 4 goals in those games.....

[Nike 373]

IMO, the best defenders were from the generation prior to Messi/Cristiano's time...

If you consider la Liga, the best defenders at their time are ramos, pique, and aging puyol, pepe, etc.

[LAM09 6,744]

Just an insane scoring record, not even funny that he's scored 25 hatricks.

He is an amazing player, but La Liga defences are a joke most of the time.

I ain't taking anything away from Ronaldo's amazing goal scoring record, though.

[HD3D 1,038]

Nothing from what you said goes against my argument - the cannon fodder were there for everyone, not just for the greats of football. It's the same to the tactical side, everyone was lacking, it was not like Pele's team (Santos) had it any better than anyone else tactically speaking. And besides, there is still a lot of cannon fodder today - it's just that Leicester is a good team in the EPL, the most balanced from the top european leagues (and even then there's quite a gap, it's more about Man Utd struggling than Leicester being a super team). But look at the La Liga or Bundesliga, the small teams rarely ever beat the top teams and it's not uncommon for them to get thrashed really hard - RM and Barça have just thrashed some teams in their last games. And if anything, it's the opposite, you got it backwards, today the smaller teams have bigger gaps to close than in those times, just look at England, the domestic league winners used to vary a lot but now the gap between the best teams and the weaker ones is such that you know the teams who have a chance to win from the very beginning. Just look at the time frame from 50 to 70 which is close to the same as Pele's professional carreer - there were 11 different teams winning the most important domestic league in England. Do you reckon there will be 11 different teams winning the major leagues in the next years? I don't think so. For example, in the last 20 years only 5 have won it and just because Blackburn has managed a title, otherwise only Chelsea, Manchester Utd, Manchester City and Arsenal would have won it.

One could even say the fact it was more amateurish and less tactical made it more even and fair to every player back then, whereas now, the stellar squads the top teams have leave little room for anyone else to have a shot at the championships, these top teams have better players and usually also better managers - so they're on top in every regard. The only valid argument against past legends is about their numbers, because of differences between football ages, some ages had higher average goals scored and things like that, but I don't think I have seen people comparing stars from different timeframes with the argument that X is better than Y because X has 1000 goals and Y has 500.

You didn't address my point that the best players from ALL continents are all concentrated in Europe today, making competition and individual brilliance extremely more difficult to achieve.

Today professional football players go through at least 3 phases before they reach the top:

- Play football with your local boys and your talent stands out.

- Join a junior/professional club and play with other talented kids nationally and locally.

- Your talent still stands out and you move to a stronger league/country where you'll be up against the very best players from all over the globe.

To become the best, you have to rise in all of these three phases today. Yet Pele never had to go past the second phase. How many players show astonishing skill in phases 1/2 and then completely disappear when they come across the tactical and talent-rich football of Europe's top leagues?

Brazil has a perfect example with Robinho. He was absolutely marvelous in Brazil, tearing apart all defenses and people said he would be the next Pele. He went to Real Madrid and after 1 season he was a bench warmer. Now imagine if Robinho played in the 60s and ALL his career was made in Brazil. People today would view footage of him and say he was one of the best of all time.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

I feel he is very desperateis to leave the club. I have a feeling that he just wants to break the records at Madrid as quickly as possible and return to United.

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

He is past it they said, he is too selfish they said, he is all ego they said, he is too expensive they said...

hahahahhaha if we are lucky we can get him for 60m because even if his pace get worse, his amount of goals will just reduced from 50 per years to 20-30 because he is that good, especially being a complete attacker. Not mention hundred of millions in shirt sell, sponsor deals per year.

I don't care if he is selfish as long as he is banging in 30 goals per year for us.

[Nike 373]

He is past it they said, he is too selfish they said, he is all ego they said, he is too expensive they said...

hahahahhaha if we are lucky we can get him for 60m because even if his pace get worse, his amount of goals will just reduced from 50 per years to 20-30 because he is that good, especially being a complete attacker. Not mention hundred of millions in shirt sell, sponsor deals per year.

I don't care if he is selfish as long as he is banging in 30 goals per year for us.

His pace is his primary weapon. No pace, means no explosions, means no vertical jump, meaning no goals, unless he gets 15 pks a season.

Cristiano is a pace player as is bale and was torres/owen. Once they lose that pace, it goes downhill.

Neymar is a pace player, but he's dribbling ability is world class as well, so his decline might not be as dramatic.

[iseah100 5,612]

His pace is his primary weapon. No pace, means no explosions, means no vertical jump, meaning no goals, unless he gets 15 pks a season.

Cristiano is a pace player as is bale and was torres/owen. Once they lose that pace, it goes downhill.

Neymar is a pace player, but he's dribbling ability is world class as well, so his decline might not be as dramatic.

A lot of players rely on pace, it doesn't mean it's all he has. He has great technique, first touch, shooting ability, and movement. He will be great even after he loses some pace.