The Pre-Season Thread

[manpe 10,861]

8 hours ago, robsblubot said:

The current crop of players is not of top4 quality IMO. I don't even know what to expect of Sterling considering how little and poorly he performed last season. He did not look that fit to my eyes either.

Current crop definitely isn't, our midfield has downgraded massively. And without midfield it doesn't matter how good your defence or attack are, unless you want to bypass midfield completely and play hoofball. We simply have to get a quality midfielder in or we will be watching Gallagher play every game. Also our winger situation is sus.

All in all I think the club has done well at offloading players, but quality wise a lot still needs to be done to make this squad fit for top 4.

Edited July 14, 2023 by manpe

[Blue Armour 4,328]

I hoped we would have at least one midfield signing to begin preseason with the team and build chemistry. And hopefully add another before the end of the window.

Last season they screwed the players with hiring shitty managers.

Really hope they're not going to do the same to the manager this time.

[robsblubot 3,564]

9 hours ago, manpe said:

Current crop definitely isn't, our midfield has downgraded massively. And without midfield it doesn't matter how good your defence or attack are, unless you want to bypass midfield completely and play hoofball. We simply have to get a quality midfielder in or we will be watching Gallagher play every game. Also our winger situation is sus.

All in all I think the club has done well at offloading players, but quality wise a lot still needs to be done to make this squad fit for top 4.

Losing players, especially starters and key players, can only be a good thing if the players who stay, or are signed, are at least at the same level of the ones who have left.

The roster is much weaker compared to previous season (quality and experience). There are gaping holes in the wings, with questionable options. The CM situ is certainly concerning even with Caicedo who, compared to Kova, is no more than a very expensive bet (on potential).

Edited July 14, 2023 by robsblubot

[Gundalf 804]

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

The roster is much weaker compared to previous season (quality and experience).

Only on paper, not on the pitch. Noone of the outgoings will be missed, not even Kante, who was finished anyway.  

[Vegetable 830]

22 minutes ago, Gundalf said:

Only on paper, not on the pitch. Noone of the outgoings will be missed, not even Kante, who was finished anyway.  

Don't know, maths is hard to jump over. Some miracle runs like Ajax in CL are possible, but playing PL twice a week is different thing. Will those fresh signings will be able to step up, create chemistry, develop well and fight for the badge AND magically generate all the advantage that basic experience gives in very short period of time? Difficult task. Lamps laid the biggest blame of our tragic campaign on the squad being too big, but not like Lamps is managing masterclass. Not a fan of Neymar, but still wouldn't mind some experienced player with a name coming here this window. 

On 10/07/2023 at 16:03, MoroccanBlue said:

Going to be nice watching a match where the players aren't knackered after 60mins. 

Maybe, but "the boys getting worked" talk and all that stuff about Poch requiring top fitness + our history from Lamps backroom staff to Foo Fighters physios + some of the players surely wanting to prove a point too much are worrying for me. Hope it won't end up in us pressing Wrexham 90 mins, but losing 3 key players for 6 months because of pointless injuries. AFAIR CHO's and RLC's careers were pretty much ended this way.

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Vegetable

[Gundalf 804]

19 minutes ago, Vegetable said:

Don't know, maths is hard to jump over. Some miracle runs like Ajax in CL are possible, but playing PL twice a week is different thing. Will those fresh signings will be able to step up, create chemistry, develop well and fight for the badge AND magically generate all the advantage that basic experience gives in very short period of time? Difficult task. Lamps laid the biggest blame of our tragic campaign on the squad being too big, but not like Lamps is managing masterclass. Not a fan of Neymar, but still wouldn't mind some experienced player with a name coming here this window. 

Experience per se has no value on the pitch. If we are talking about experience a la Thiago, so combined with work ethic and guidance for youngsters, then yes, experience a la Neymar? Hell no, this guy would be like a virus destroying everything. I mean we could also just keep Lukaku, he definitely has a lot of experience. Or Auba, HELLA experienced player. But why dont we wanna keep them? Because they have no value for the team. 

There is a difference between being old and being experienced in a useful way. We have experienced players in the squad: Thiago, Reece (despite his age), Chilly, Sterling, they are experienced enough to lead the way.

This has always been a 3 year plan:

• Year 1: change
• Year 2: grow
• Year 3: succeed

Arsenal had a very young team as well last season, only 2 players of their starting XI were over 25. They did kinda the same. Got rid of all their experienced older players (Sokratis, Kolasinac, Martinez, Leno, Mustafi, Mkhitaryan, Willian, David Luiz, Aubameyang) and replaced them with kinda unexperienced young players (Ben White, Odegaard, Smith Rowe, Ramsdale, Lokonga, Tavares and so on), had trust in them, let them grow and succeed.

The funny thing is that they also kinda felt the urge to add in some experience to their squad midseason, buying Jorginho, well, didnt end too well. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Gundalf

[robsblubot 3,564]

1 hour ago, Gundalf said:

Only on paper, not on the pitch. Noone of the outgoings will be missed, not even Kante, who was finished anyway.  

How do you know that? a crystal ball? (you are the one presenting the "on paper" opinions)

You are comparing absolute question marks with established players who won CL. I have to say that's the kind of BS I can't deal with in these forums. People focus on a season to prove a point and then make up shit up about nobodies who join the club. I remember when folks were obsessed with Sancho here, and he turned out being a pretty average player so far.

Quote

This has always been a 3 year plan:

• Year 1: change
• Year 2: grow
• Year 3: succeed

Oh wow that's some novel idea right there! City will be surprised by our cleverness!

Edited July 14, 2023 by robsblubot

[Vegetable 830]

2 minutes ago, Gundalf said:

There is a difference between being old and being experienced in a useful way. We have experienced players in the squad: Thiago, Reece (despite his age), Chilly, Sterling, they are experienced enough to lead the way.

 

Yeah, absolutely don't want players a'la Neymar, Dembele and alike near the team, I mean Thiago expereience + the simple value of not shitting your pants in CL games or taking pen in CL game. Not getting carded stupid way. Throwing some shithousery a'la Luiz or Rudi. The problem I see with our purged squad is that personally I can hardly see a character, who could lead the way like Thiago, Azpi or even Jorghi did. We all hope for James, that's one, but Chilly, Kepa, Enzo, they seem rather non-explosive people, but maybe it will all come with time.

[Gundalf 804]

Just now, robsblubot said:

How do you know that? a crystal ball? 

You are comparing absolute question marks with established players who won CL. I have to say that's the kind of BS I can't deal with in these forums. People focus on a season to prove a point and then make up shit up about nobodies who join the club. I remember when folks were obsessed with Sancho here, and he turned out being a pretty average player so far.

 

Most of the players we sold were here for more than 1 year, so we had time to assess them over a longer period, and sorry, they are not good enough to attack the league. Maybe the new signings arent good enough for that as well, yes, who knows, but what we know is that some of the players we had were just not good enough for a club with ambitions like Chelsea. We saw it for more than 1 year.

You really tell me you would have kept KK, Pulisic, Mendy or RLC???

[Gundalf 804]

2 minutes ago, Vegetable said:

Yeah, absolutely don't want players a'la Neymar, Dembele and alike near the team, I mean Thiago expereience + the simple value of not shitting your pants in CL games or taking pen in CL game. Not getting carded stupid way. Throwing some shithousery a'la Luiz or Rudi. The problem I see with our purged squad is that personally I can hardly see a character, who could lead the way like Thiago, Azpi or even Jorghi did. We all hope for James, that's one, but Chilly, Kepa, Enzo, they seem rather non-explosive people, but maybe it will all come with time.

I wouldnt say no to an experienced, but PERFORMING and guiding DM or a striker like Giroud. Just dont know who that should be. On paper, Lukaku would be a good fit tbh lol if he just was a better person

[robsblubot 3,564]

16 minutes ago, Gundalf said:

Most of the players we sold were here for more than 1 year, so we had time to assess them over a longer period, and sorry, they are not good enough to attack the league. Maybe the new signings arent good enough for that as well, yes, who knows, but what we know is that some of the players we had were just not good enough for a club with ambitions like Chelsea. We saw it for more than 1 year.

You really tell me you would have kept KK, Pulisic, Mendy or RLC???

KK was a terrible signing and I questioned it from day one--just another case of the grass is always greener which we do a lot of here.

Pulisic is twice the player Mudryk is. It's not just opinion, because Mudryk simply hasn't produce anything remotely close to what Pulisic has, even in his poor seasons, let alone when he was firing in all cylinders. Note that I'm not saying Pulisic is good enough for Chelsea, but there is really no comparison between him and Mudryk right now.

Mendy is/was an excellent goalie who produced a magical season for us. Kepa really hasn't done anything remotely close to good enough at this level. Once again, I'm going with what has already happened vs it has not yet happened.

RLC vs who? Gallagher? former is the better player. Can Gallagher improve? possibly, but then again he may not and what we see is what we get.

[Gundalf 804]

I mean, Cahill is 1 year younger than Thiago.....sign him up? 😏

[Gundalf 804]

3 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

KK was a terrible signing and I questioned it from day one--just another case of the grass is always greener which we do a lot of here.

Pulisic is twice the player Mudryk is. It's not just opinion, because Mudryk simply hasn't produce anything remotely close to what Pulisic has, even in his poor seasons, let alone when he was firing in all cylinders. Note that I'm not saying Pulisic is good enough for Chelsea, but there is really no comparison between him and Mudryk right now.

Mendy is/was an excellent goalie who produced a magical season for us. Kepa really hasn't done anything remotely close to good enough at this level. Once again, I'm going with what has already happened vs it has not yet happened.

RLC vs who? Gallagher? former is the better player. Can Gallagher improve? possibly, but then again he may not and what we see is what we get.

Well the fact that noone other than Saudis or Milan with a veeeery low price wanted these players is just an indicator for how they are valued in the football world. And there must be a reason for that.

Pulisic could have become good but he is too injury prone and sadly that wont change in the future. 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,538]

 

[Mário César 1,045]

you can't just look at things from the UCL either.

The players won the UCL but it was more Tuchel's merit and mainly for the defense.

do not forget that in the second year of tuchel the only thing that held was the defense because above all the offensive players produced little.

we also won the 2012 ucl and had to take a few to win the championship again in 2015.

just see that with this set of players the league rankings have been poor

it's still early days, it's all still an unknown

besides caicedo, i think we need one more midfielder and at least one more offensive player.I

I would like to have another goalkeeper. I can't imagine a whole season with just kepa. it's suicide. 

 

[robsblubot 3,564]

57 minutes ago, Gundalf said:

Well the fact that noone other than Saudis or Milan with a veeeery low price wanted these players is just an indicator for how they are valued in the football world. And there must be a reason for that.

Pulisic could have become good but he is too injury prone and sadly that wont change in the future. 

What I wrote above also applies to Kova vs Caicedo. One was a reality even at the time he was signed--coming from Real. The other is an expensive bet from a nothing club. Folks WANT him to succeed, but there are no guarantees at this level. in a couple of years, Caicedo might be the player you want out for being underperforming--not a super unlikely situation either.

Also, doesn't the point above hurt your own argument regarding Kai, and Mount? I mean they went out for big fees and to big clubs.

Saudis are snatching up players who could easily play in many big teams. And they are offering a lot of money so that they choose a non-competitive league. By the numbers alone, it seems they've been even more aggressive than China a few years back.

Pulisic only had 12mo left in his contract, did not want to stay, and was on high wages for his level. All these will push his fee down, evidently. He wasn't really a Chelsea starter, but then again, all bets now on Mudryk and Madueke? good luck to us.

Edited July 14, 2023 by robsblubot

[robsblubot 3,564]

26 minutes ago, Mário César said:

you can't just look at things from the UCL either.

The players won the UCL but it was more Tuchel's merit and mainly for the defense.

do not forget that in the second year of tuchel the only thing that held was the defense because above all the offensive players produced little.

we also won the 2012 ucl and had to take a few to win the championship again in 2015.

just see that with this set of players the league rankings have been poor

it's still early days, it's all still an unknown

besides caicedo, i think we need one more midfielder and at least one more offensive player.I

I would like to have another goalkeeper. I can't imagine a whole season with just kepa. it's suicide. 

 

Wow Tuchel won the CL alone! He may have scored all the goals too! Dominated the midfield with excellent passing and even pressed high, which is remarkable at his age!

Then a moment later he was shit and that nobody from Brighton was the solution to all problems.

[Gundalf 804]

22 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

What I wrote above applies to Kova vs Caicedo. One was a reality even at the time he was signed--coming from Real. The other is an expensive bet from a nothing club. Folks WANT him to succeed, but there are no guarantees at this level. in a couple of years, Caicedo might be the player you want out for being underperforming--not a super unlikely situation either.

Also, doesn't the point above hurt your own argument regarding Kai, and Mount? I mean they went out for big fees and to big clubs.

Saudis are snatching up players who could easily play in many big teams. And they are offering a lot of money so that they choose a non-competitive league. By the numbers alone, it seems they've been even more aggressive than China a few years back.

Pulisic only had 12mo left in his contract, did not want to stay, and was on high wages for his level. All these will push his fee down, evidently. He wasn't really a Chelsea starter, but then again, all bets now on Mudryk and Madueke? good luck to us.

Well with that logic u could never buy a player bc u would never know if the one u buy performs as well as the payer u replace him with. All signings are bets to a certain degree. 

I mean look at Enzo: we basically replaced Jorginho, a proven player and CL winner, with Enzo, a guy that has been playing in Europe for 5 months before we bought him. Big big bet, but sometimes its worth it. If it was up to you, we still would have Jorginho around and no Enzo? 

Havertz and Mount are still young so are of higher value and it was their decision to leave, they wanted to leave, we didnt shove them out, so therefore are more expensive. Remember Poch wanted to keep Mount initially. 

Im talking about the older players around their 30s like Kova, KK, Mendy and co, who need to be replaced anyway at a certain point. And about Pulisic: u said it. He also wanted to leave, just like RLC. No point in keeping them as a backup when they are unhappy. We also wanted to keep Kante initially. 

All the players we sold actually wanted to leave, for different reasons. All of them didnt have Chelsea in their heart anymore. It was the best solution for everyone. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Gundalf