Nathaniel Chalobah

[herpthederp 122]

The lad is still 19. This is only his second season playing competitive football. What's the rush?

This is a crucial year of development that he'll be pissing away in the Championship. Chelsea can't expect to ever develop any first team players if they're never going to take a chance on these lads.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

This is a crucial year of development that he'll be pissing away in the Championship. Chelsea can't expect to every develop any first team players if they're not going to take a chance on lads.

Would you rather he wastes it here at Chelsea? He's broken into the first team at Boro and getting games. That's already many times better than he would have got here.

Of course we're not going to take a chance on a 19yo, unless he is something like the new Messi. How many games per season at Chelsea can you afford to play a completely inexperienced youngster? You can't do that as a top team because you're expected to win every single game.

Honestly, I don't expect to see Nathanial here for another two season after he's had a few more loans, probably including a PL loan.

[Stats 7,059]

It's not Chelsea's fault that he's had a poor loan, but it's Chelsea's fault that he's on loan at all. He proved his quality last season, he should be part of the first team squad right now, not out on a pointless loan deal.

He was very impressive out on loan last season but there is a big difference in making a mark at a Championship club and being part of a squad that is expected to challenge for all major trophies. Right now he would be no way near the first 11 and would of been the same at the beginning of the season and at his age the most important thing for a footballer is to be playing first team competitive football rather than playing reserve matches so the loan deal helps club and player imo.

[Thomas Williams 166]

How would Chalobah get playing time if 20 million pound Schurrle can't even get any? Jose doesn't like to rotate much, it was definitely a good idea to loan him (especially having MvG here). It's just a shame this one has been such a failure compared to the last.

[herpthederp 122]

Would you rather he wastes it here at Chelsea? He's broken into the first team at Boro and getting games. That's already many times better than he would have got here.

Of course we're not going to take a chance on a 19yo, unless he is something like the new Messi. How many games per season at Chelsea can you afford to play a completely inexperienced youngster? You can't do that as a top team because you're expected to win every single game.

Honestly, I don't expect to see Nathanial here for another two season after he's had a few more loans, probably including a PL loan.

Barcelona give youngsters chances, as did United when they dominated in the Premier League, it's a cop out to say a top team can't do that. Loans to clubs that play a style that is at odds with the parent club serve to do little more than prove a player can cope at that level, so if Chalobah is still being loaned out in two seasons then his career will be on it's arse like McEachran's is, and Chelsea will have ruined another young player's development.

[The only place to be 11,313]

It's not like he had Hazard in front of him like Schurrle does. He had Essien and Mikel ahead of him, one of whom has retired....sorry, gone to Milan and another who is nothing but a spectator on the pitch. The loan to Forest was an utter failure on every level, and he simply didn't fit the style of play they wanted. He would've been better staying here and getting the occasional appearance whilst also training with world-class players.

Unfortunately the club/Jose chose Ba over Lukaku and Essien over Chalobah.

[The Skipper 20,593]

It's not like he had Hazard in front of him like Schurrle does. He had Essien and Mikel ahead of him, one of whom has retired....sorry, gone to Milan and another who is nothing but a spectator on the pitch. The loan to Forest was an utter failure on every level, and he simply didn't fit the style of play they wanted. He would've been better staying here and getting the occasional appearance whilst also training with world-class players.

Unfortunately the club/Jose chose Ba over Lukaku and Essien over Chalobah.

As you know I'm a supporter of the Lukaku loan because I don't think he would've played half as much had he stayed here (Jose wouldn't play him enough I think) but I agree, Nat could've 100% been here instead of Essien and would've progressed better if he was in and around the squad and probably would've had a few games here and there as well.

All we can hope for right now is that he hopefully figures in Jose's plan next season.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Drastic moves, sell Mikel and give Chalobah a chance whenever Mikel would get it. That is how you make way for youth players. Not loaning them to some small forgotten championship clubs. After next season here loan him to PL mid table club and see.

The club, Jose and board have done enough talking about making young stars and giving chances to youth players. Its time for actions.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Barcelona give youngsters chances, as did United when they dominated in the Premier League, it's a cop out to say a top team can't do that. Loans to clubs that play a style that is at odds with the parent club serve to do little more than prove a player can cope at that level, so if Chalobah is still being loaned out in two seasons then his career will be on it's arse like McEachran's is, and Chelsea will have ruined another young player's development.

The scenario in La Liga is completely different. The league is much weaker with a HUGE gap between the Real and Barca (and now Athletico) and the rest. They can afford to give youngsters a chance in games. Plus the academies in Spain, especially Barca's, is miles and miles ahead of anything in England.

As for united, when was the last time they promoted a youngster without sending him on a PL loan while they're at the top? Just yesterday, I was laughing after seeing Maccheda playing (badly) in the Championship (or was it League One, Ican't remember). It took utd becoming the mid-table team that they are today to promote Januzaj. He didn't get a look in when they were challenging for titles and neither did Pogba.

Times have changed. Today in the EPL, you can't challenge for titles and play unproven youngsters at the same time, especially without managerial stability.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

It's not like he had Hazard in front of him like Schurrle does. He had Essien and Mikel ahead of him, one of whom has retired....sorry, gone to Milan and another who is nothing but a spectator on the pitch. The loan to Forest was an utter failure on every level, and he simply didn't fit the style of play they wanted. He would've been better staying here and getting the occasional appearance whilst also training with world-class players.

Unfortunately the club/Jose chose Ba over Lukaku and Essien over Chalobah.

Unfortunately?! Ba has played under 1000 minutes for us this season while Essien barely played 200 despite MVG picking up that injury very early in the season! You should be thankful that the club made the right decision for the sake of the players, their development and ultimately their value to the club in the future.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Unfortunately?! Ba has played under 1000 minutes for us this season while Essien barely played 200 despite MVG picking up that injury very early in the season! You should be thankful that the club made the right decision for the sake of the players, their development and ultimately their value to the club in the future.

Exactly - Ba has been a non-entity when we could've used someone like Lukaku in matches, whilst Chalobah got nothing out of his loan to Forest. I would've much rather seen Chalobah getting minutes than Essien or Mikel.

As for united, when was the last time they promoted a youngster without sending him on a PL loan while they're at the top? Just yesterday, I was laughing after seeing Maccheda playing (badly) in the Championship (or was it League One, Ican't remember). It took utd becoming the mid-table team that they are today to promote Januzaj. He didn't get a look in when they were challenging for titles and neither did Pogba.

And how's that working out for them? Pogba was the player they needed and they fucked up. We shouldn't be using their failure to develop young players as a template - we should actually look at their mistakes and learn from them. Why use them as an example and not someone like Liverpool or Arsenal who are both above them and have used players like Flanaghan, Sterling and Gnabry?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Exactly - Ba has been a non-entity when we could've used someone like Lukaku in matches, whilst Chalobah got nothing out of his loan to Forest. I would've much rather seen Chalobah getting minutes than Essien or Mikel.

There just aren't enough minutes. Lukaku is similar in his style to Torres and I'm certain that, when fit, Jose would have chosen Fernando over Romelu the vast majority of the time. As for Chalobah, he wouldn't have gotten into the team ahead of Mikel, you just said he couldn't get into Forest's team! He would have just got the minutes that Essien got at most.

And how's that working out for them? Pogba was the player they needed and they fucked up. We shouldn't be using their failure to develop young players as a template - we should actually look at their mistakes and learn from them. Why use them as an example and not someone like Liverpool or Arsenal who are both above them and have used players like Flanaghan, Sterling and Gnabry?

I'm not using as template, I'm using it to show that it can't be done while challenging for titles. Liverpool and Arsenal are both example to exactly this. They managed to integrate youth players because they weren't challenging for titles. We arguably have better talents in our academy than them. Give a Chelsea manager 8 years without the pressure of challenging for titles and by the end of that period, half our squad would probably be from our academy.

[The only place to be 11,313]

There just aren't enough minutes. Lukaku is similar in his style to Torres and I'm certain that, when fit, Jose would have chosen Fernando over Romelu the vast majority of the time. As for Chalobah, he wouldn't have gotten into the team ahead of Mikel, you just said he couldn't get into Forest's team! He would have just got the minutes that Essien got at most.

It's impossible to say how many minutes Lukaku would've got, but I definitely think we could've used him. Nat simply didn't fit the style of football Forest played. It was a terrible choice of loan and he would've probably benefitted more from staying here. I don't know many Chelsea supporters who wouldn't want him being selected over Mikel either.

I'm not using as template, I'm using it to show that it can't be done while challenging for titles. Liverpool and Arsenal are both example to exactly this. They managed to integrate youth players because they weren't challenging for titles. We arguably have better talents in our academy than them. Give a Chelsea manager 8 years without the pressure of challenging for titles and by the end of that period, half our squad would probably be from our academy.

I completely disagree with you on this point. I think it can be done and I think we will do it. Rodgers has developed a title-challenging squad on less funds than those around him whilst integrating young players into the squad and having his team play attractive football.

We have passengers in our squad like Mikel, Ba and Cole when we could be using younger players like Chalobah and Lukaku, and I think once we have a solid core we'll do that. I would've just preferred to have seen it start this season.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

It's impossible to say how many minutes Lukaku would've got, but I definitely think we could've used him. Nat simply didn't fit the style of football Forest played. It was a terrible choice of loan and he would've probably benefitted more from staying here. I don't know many Chelsea supporters who wouldn't want him being selected over Mikel either.

I think we can definitively say that Lukaku would have got much less time than he has gotten at Everton. When Chalobah was loaned out, we had Ramires, Lampard, Mikel, Essien and MVG. Take out Essien, and even Mikel (even though Chalobah starting important games ahead of Mikel is completely unrealistic), he'd still be 4th choice. Loaning him out was clearly the right choice in my mind.

And of course the supporters would like to see youngsters in the squad. In my Chelsea team on FIFA, I literally have 2 players over 25 and about a dozen under 20 and I win the treble every season. That doesn't mean it can be done in real life.

I completely disagree with you on this point. I think it can be done and I think we will do it. Rodgers has developed a title-challenging squad on less funds than those around him whilst integrating young players into the squad and having his team play attractive football.

We have passengers in our squad like Mikel, Ba and Cole when we could be using younger players like Chalobah and Lukaku, and I think once we have a solid core we'll do that. I would've just preferred to have seen it start this season.

And where did Rogers' team finish while he was developing this young squad? Even this season, they're not really title contenders. If Chelsea have the exact same season as Liverpool this season and end up in 4th, the manager probably get sacked.

It's really simple. Young players with not much experience make much more mistakes than experienced players and tend to perform inconsistently. That results in losing points and games throughout the season. If you are Liverpool and Arsenal in the past 8 years, then it's not that big a deal. But if you're Chelsea and aim at constantly being a top team, then you just can't afford throwing 19 year old players into the first team.

I think we can, and have already integrated young players into our first team. Proven young players that is. Players like Oscar and Azpi. And I think we can and will hopefully do it again in the future with players like Piazon, MVG, Romeu, Courtois, Chalobah, Lukaku..etc the list is endless. Obviously, not all of them will make it here but all of them have a chance to. That is why we send them out on loan to get experience at the top level so that when they are at the ages of 21-22-23, they are ready to be integrated into the team like Oscar and Azpi were last season, and not raw and inexperienced youth players who have spent most of their past years sitting on our bench or playing with the U21s.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I think we can definitively say that Lukaku would have got much less time than he has gotten at Everton. When Chalobah was loaned out, we had Ramires, Lampard, Mikel, Essien and MVG. Take out Essien, and even Mikel (even though Chalobah starting important games ahead of Mikel is completely unrealistic), he'd still be 4th choice. Loaning him out was clearly the right choice in my mind.

And of course the supporters would like to see youngsters in the squad. In my Chelsea team on FIFA, I literally have 2 players over 25 and about a dozen under 20 and I win the treble every season. That doesn't mean it can be done in real life.

Lukaku would've got less minutes than he's got at Everton (who have probably overplayed him), but he would've also got more minutes than Ba who is quite simply untrusted by Jose.

Loaning out Chalobah - great idea.

Loaning out Chalobah to a team with a manager whose ethos isn't suited to Chalobah - bad idea.

So when you say it's the right choice in your mind, are you talking about the reality of loaning out Chalobah or some mythical realm where he joins a competitive team who fit his playstyle and where he learns things to improve him as a player. Because that second choice is undoubtably a great stepping stone for a young player. Is that the one you think is the great idea? It is isn't it.

And where did Rogers' team finish while he was developing this young squad? Even this season, they're not really title contenders. If Chelsea have the exact same season as Liverpool this season and end up in 4th, the manager probably get sacked.

Yeah, they are and it's a sickening thought.

It's really simple. Young players with not much experience make much more mistakes than experienced players and tend to perform inconsistently. That results in losing points and games throughout the season. If you are Liverpool and Arsenal in the past 8 years, then it's not that big a deal. But if you're Chelsea and aim at constantly being a top team, then you just can't afford throwing 19 year old players into the first team.

Essien made a mistake in the first few seconds against Southampton. Mikel puts in consistently poor performances. Torres....well, Torres.

Age is not the sole factor in deciding how a player will perform. It's why we're going to replace Ashley Cole and all his experience with a 19 year old next season. Not because of age, but because of quality.

I think we can, and have already integrated young players into our first team. Proven young players that is. Players like Oscar and Azpi. And I think we can and will hopefully do it again in the future with players like Piazon, MVG, Romeu, Courtois, Chalobah, Lukaku..etc the list is endless. Obviously, not all of them will make it here but all of them have a chance to. That is why we send them out on loan to get experience at the top level so that when they are at the ages of 21-22-23, they are ready to be integrated into the team like Oscar and Azpi were last season, and not raw and inexperienced youth players who have spent most of their past years sitting on our bench or playing with the U21s.

Piazon doesn't have experience at the top level. Nor does Van Ginkel. If they get chances it will be because they're good enough.

The simple fact is that the way we've done things hasn't worked and that's because of a lack of stability. Once you have quality running throughout the first team then you can integrate more youngsters because there's a stable platform for them to play on. The problem is that we can't just put Chalobah in the team because Ramires and Mikel weren't good enough. Once we've got that established spine I think we will most certainly integrate more young players and this myth that you're propagating wlll disappear for good hopefully.

But if Hansen can recover from saying 'you can't win things with youth' then so can you.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Lukaku would've got less minutes than he's got at Everton (who have probably overplayed him), but he would've also got more minutes than Ba who is quite simply untrusted by Jose.

Loaning out Chalobah - great idea.

Loaning out Chalobah to a team with a manager whose ethos isn't suited to Chalobah - bad idea.

So when you say it's the right choice in your mind, are you talking about the reality of loaning out Chalobah or some mythical realm where he joins a competitive team who fit his playstyle and where he learns things to improve him as a player. Because that second choice is undoubtably a great stepping stone for a young player. Is that the one you think is the great idea? It is isn't it.

I'm talking about the decision to send him out on loan. Of course the decision to send him to Forest was wrong and I criticized it from day one. It was obvious that they just wanted him for publicity and not for football and we just sent him there because they payed an extra 5K/wk of his salary than Watford did. The right decision was to send him back to Watfprd where he fit in and already knew the players.

Yeah, they are and it's a sickening thought.

Regardless, they spent 4-5 seasons of being mid-table to build this team. Do we want that here?

Essien made a mistake in the first few seconds against Southampton. Mikel puts in consistently poor performances. Torres....well, Torres.

Age is not the sole factor in deciding how a player will perform. It's why we're going to replace Ashley Cole and all his experience with a 19 year old next season. Not because of age, but because of quality.

Essien is our fifth choice CM, and yet I have no doubt that in, let's say, and FA cup semifinal, if the choice was between him and Chlobah, 99% of managers would go with Michael. As for Mikel and Torres, the club and manager(s) obviously don't share your opinion or they would have been replaced in the team.

Of course age is not the only factor, but it is a big factor because it is proportional to experience and often consistency. Would we be looking to bring Shaw to be in our first team squad if Southampton had played the past two season in the championship? Not a chance. We're buying him because he is proven and has the experience at the top level. That is the main point.

Piazon doesn't have experience at the top level. Nor does Van Ginkel. If they get chances it will be because they're good enough.

The simple fact is that the way we've done things hasn't worked and that's because of a lack of stability. Once you have quality running throughout the first team then you can integrate more youngsters because there's a stable platform for them to play on. The problem is that we can't just put Chalobah in the team because Ramires and Mikel weren't good enough. Once we've got that established spine I think we will most certainly integrate more young players and this myth that you're propagating wlll disappear for good hopefully.

But if Hansen can recover from saying 'you can't win things with youth' then so can you.

MVG had two seasons playing in the Eredivisie, just like Oscar had experience playing in the Brazilian league and Azpi in the Ligue 1. They all had played enough at a good competitive level to be able to come here and perform fairly consistently.

Of course stability plays a factor. I said that in the first post. But it's not the only factor. Even with all the stability and quality in the world, it is incredibly unlikely that Jose, or any other manager, would throw into the team a player that has not had experience playing at a good competitive level unless the rest of the teams in the league lose quality and we become like Juve are in Serie A or Bayern in the Bundes Liga. They will still need to go out and loan until they become mature and consistent enough to come into a top team like Chelsea.

[communicate 2,703]

Exactly - Ba has been a non-entity when we could've used someone like Lukaku in matches, whilst Chalobah got nothing out of his loan to Forest. I would've much rather seen Chalobah getting minutes than Essien or Mikel.

And how's that working out for them? Pogba was the player they needed and they fucked up. We shouldn't be using their failure to develop young players as a template - we should actually look at their mistakes and learn from them. Why use them as an example and not someone like Liverpool or Arsenal who are both above them and have used players like Flanaghan, Sterling and Gnabry?

For Liverpool the reason is obvious, they don't have the financial power to purchase WC player whereas Arsenal has Wenger and we know Wenger likes to develop youngsters.

If it works out you can look like a genius but if it doesn't you can look like wenger. A couple weeks ago, mourinho said wenger is a failure specialist for not winning any throphies in 6 years but if you want to develop youngsters you have to be patient and hopefully they will come through and if they do hopefully they will stay (nasri, fabregas, RVP ).

Player development is more risky than buying ready made player, and if you want them to get better you Have to play them and hopefully they are good enough for your level or you are screwed.

Let say we sell mikel and essien and have chalobah in our squad. Ramires is injured and we have to play chalobah as our starting pivot. We can only hope that he is good enough otherwise we can say goodbye to our chance to win important trophy.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Player development is more risky than buying ready made player, and if you want them to get better you Have to play them and hopefully they are good enough for your level or you are screwed.

It's the new reality though, and that's a good thing. Teams can't buy success anymore hopefully.

We have a fantastic academy and once we have stability in the first team then we can start to introduce young players. We should've included the likes of Chalobah and Lukaku this season though, in my opinion.