Gareth Bale

[Stingray 9,441]

I think you'll find I haven't been biased at all. Previous seasons were not mentioned and I did say quite clearly, that I was stating the best player at the current time, meaning now. I wasn't interested in what Hazard has done in the Ligue 1. You touched on it yourself - the league is pretty poor to begin with, but it was never mentioned. If you want me to take that into account, it's fine. However It's a bit meaningless regarding who is currently better in the SAME league. That was a much better way of judging.

Yes Hazard played well in Ligue 1 - yes he's won more awards. It all means nothing though as he fell short of Bale this season. Bale stepped up massively. We are still waiting on Hazard to do the same and justify all of this huge potential. The difference is now - Bale won two awards in a superior league. Past means so little.

I'm not sure you get what I'm saying Stingray, or you wouldn't call me biased. Let me make it clear. Hazard is a wonderful player with big potential. A player I've seen my fair share of. I know he's going to be good, and has proven this already in one league. I didn't need it pointed out in stats. My argument was simple - Bale is better now. I'm not sure that can be argued, as I said earlier in the thread. Hazard is a player I had hope we would sign - obviously that tells you a lot too? I mean I'm not trying to bag him or anything like that, he's just not as good regardless of what is in his past.

Let him prove it.

Ow my!

No, you got me wrong. My post was about the debate about who was best. My intro dealing with the 'target audience' did not mention you at all actually.

Your last remark just gave me the lolz

But you put in Hazard? Come on.

So I added a remark to end. Banter mate, you got the red on your profile pic. So I wanted to tease you a bit (especially after you saying 'Ronaldo'. The post in itself wasn't really about you.

[yuvala 2,167]

I think you'll find I haven't been biased at all. Previous seasons were not mentioned and I did say quite clearly, that I was stating the best player at the current time, meaning now. I wasn't interested in what Hazard has done in the Ligue 1. You touched on it yourself - the league is pretty poor to begin with, but it was never mentioned. If you want me to take that into account, it's fine. However It's a bit meaningless regarding who is currently better in the SAME league. That was a much better way of judging.

Yes Hazard played well in Ligue 1 - yes he's won more awards. It all means nothing though as he fell short of Bale this season. Bale stepped up massively. We are still waiting on Hazard to do the same and justify all of this huge potential. The difference is now - Bale won two awards in a superior league. Past means so little.

I'm not sure you get what I'm saying Stingray, or you wouldn't call me biased. Let me make it clear. Hazard is a wonderful player with big potential. A player I've seen my fair share of. I know he's going to be good, and has proven this already in one league. I didn't need it pointed out in stats. My argument was simple - Bale is better now. I'm not sure that can be argued, as I said earlier in the thread. Hazard is a player I had hope we would sign - obviously that tells you a lot too? I mean I'm not trying to bag him or anything like that, he's just not as good regardless of what is in his past.

Let him prove he can be better.

I actually have to agree ..

CURRENTLY, Bale is the better, more effective player IMO .

Whether he has a higher ceilling or higher potential isn't relevant right now I think..

[Weckerz 3,781]

I think you'll find I haven't been biased at all. Previous seasons were not mentioned and I did say quite clearly, that I was stating the best player at the current time, meaning now. I wasn't interested in what Hazard has done in the Ligue 1. You touched on it yourself - the league is pretty poor to begin with, but it was never mentioned. If you want me to take that into account, it's fine. However It's a bit meaningless regarding who is currently better in the SAME league. That was a much better way of judging.

Yes Hazard played well in Ligue 1 - yes he's won more awards. It all means nothing though as he fell short of Bale this season. Bale stepped up massively. We are still waiting on Hazard to do the same and justify all of this huge potential. The difference is now - Bale won two awards in a superior league. Past means so little.

I'm not sure you get what I'm saying Stingray, or you wouldn't call me biased. Let me make it clear. Hazard is a wonderful player with big potential. A player I've seen my fair share of. I know he's going to be good, and has proven this already in one league. I didn't need it pointed out in stats. My argument was simple - Bale is better now. I'm not sure that can be argued, as I said earlier in the thread. Hazard is a player I had hope we would sign - obviously that tells you a lot too? I mean I'm not trying to bag him or anything like that, he's just not as good regardless of what is in his past.

Let him prove it.

Bale had a season where every attempt from outside of the box went into the net, props to him ofcourse, amazing shooting ability. Combined with his physical presence he was a force and carried Tottenham.

Eden outclassed him in the last months of the season though.

If Mourinho can make him more of a goalscorer he'll easily be better than Bale. Imho he's better at every aspect of the game apart from finishing and pace (and strength I suppose).

Inb4 double bias

[yuvala 2,167]

Bale had a season where every attempt from outside of the box went into the net, props to him ofcourse, amazing shooting ability. Compared with his physical presence he was a force and carried Tottenham.

Eden outclassed him in the last months of the season though.

If Mourinho can make him more of a goalscorer he'll easily be better than Bale. Imho he's better at every aspect of the game apart from finishing and pace (and strength I suppose).

Inb4 double bias

If he can score as many as Bale, then he'd certainly be the better player.

Really hope Mou can make him a scorer.

[Stingray 9,441]

I actually have to agree ..

CURRENTLY, Bale is the better, more effective player IMO .

Whether he has a higher ceilling or higher potential isn't relevant right now I think..

Bale had a season where every attempt from outside of the box went into the net, props to him ofcourse, amazing shooting ability. Compared with his physical presence he was a force and carried Tottenham.

Eden outclassed him in the last months of the season though.

If Mourinho can make him more of a goalscorer he'll easily be better than Bale. Imho he's better at every aspect of the game apart from finishing and pace (and strength I suppose).

Inb4 double bias

Yes. But that is exactly the reason this debate on who is actually .... better/has a higher ceiling/.... needs the perspective of history as well. Bale did awesome, Eden very well. eden had his maiden year.

But the variable of played best next year to determine who's the best/promising/..... is a very bad one. Hazard did not as well as he did this year - but for Bale everything worked and Eden had his first year starting in a transition situation, a lot of young guys, a thin squad, sacking of the manager, ball boy shit, FSW ... So .... the only way to intelligibly is keep history in mind. Hazard might have played in a weaker league. Ligue 1 is not ALL the weak thing people some make of it -. And he ripped that place apart. Multiple years.

It gives the Bale/Hazard thing a new perspective .... that's all :-)

[yuvala 2,167]

Yes. But that is exactly the reason this debate on who is actually .... better/has a higher ceiling/.... needs the perspective of history as well. Bale did awesome, Eden very well. eden had his maiden year.

But the variable of played best next year to determine who's the best/promising/..... is a very bad one. Hazard did not as well as he did this year - but for Bale everything worked and Eden had his first year starting in a transition situation, a lot of young guys, a thin squad, sacking of the manager, ball boy shit, FSW ... So .... the only way to intelligibly is keep history in mind. Hazard might have played in a weaker league. Ligue 1 is not ALL the weak thing people some make of it -. And he ripped that place apart. Multiple years.

It gives the Bale/Hazard thing a new perspective .... that's all :-)

Hazard might just be better than Bale in 1-2 years, who knows maybe even this year ..

I really really hope so.

But can't say it for sure right now.. we'll have to wait.

[Stingray 9,441]

If he can score as many as Bale, then he'd certainly be the better player.

Really hope Mou can make him a scorer.

But, but, no! ..... this is my point exactly. Bale objectively didn't score that much more. Yes This year. But before .... much less. Eden more ... now less (transition).

It makes no sense at all to limit the concept of quality for a player to a 1 season term . Wuuuut?

[yuvala 2,167]

But, but, no! ..... this is my point exactly. Bale objectively didn't score that much more. Yes This year. But before .... much less. Eden more ... now less (transition).

It makes no sense at all to limit the concept of quality for a player to a 1 season term . Wuuuut?

Hopefuly this year Hazard will have atleast 15 goals in the PL. 20+ would be amazing ..

This year he had 9.

[Stingray 9,441]

Hopefuly this year Hazard will have atleast 15 goals in the PL. 20+ would be amazing ..

This year he had 9.

But you prove my point! It is not about just one year to rate a guy. Especially if one is on the high and the other starting to settle in. Quality is not the same concept than a one year performance.

Last season , Eden got also more assists and I grant Bale did awesome scoring. Fab. But the year before: 9, the year before: 7, the year before: 3 and the year before: 0

.

Eden :

Last year 9 (first season!), The year before: 20(15 assists), the year before: 7(11 assists), The year before 5, Then 4

While being 2 years younger in this.

So .... It's a close call. Not a clear cut 'Bale is awesome thing'.

[JayC 171]

Ow my!

No, you got me wrong. My post was about the debate about who was best. My intro dealing with the 'target audience' did not mention you at all actually.

Your last remark just gave me the lolz

So I added a remark to end. Banter mate, you got the red on your profile pic. So I wanted to tease you a bit (especially after you saying 'Ronaldo'. The post in itself wasn't really about you.

No problem. Banter all you want, but biased I am not. I call it like I see it. I can get things wrong though like anybody else. Biased, no.

I actually have to agree ..

CURRENTLY, Bale is the better, more effective player IMO .

Whether he has a higher ceilling or higher potential isn't relevant right now I think..

Thank you. Finally somebody that agrees. I thought this was turning into a pointless debate with so much negativity. I guess it's nearly run its course though - I didn't ever think I would win this one on a Chelsea forum anyway.

Bale had a season where every attempt from outside of the box went into the net, props to him ofcourse, amazing shooting ability. Combined with his physical presence he was a force and carried Tottenham.

Eden outclassed him in the last months of the season though.

If Mourinho can make him more of a goalscorer he'll easily be better than Bale. Imho he's better at every aspect of the game apart from finishing and pace (and strength I suppose).

Inb4 double bias

I've never argued he can't be better. I agree with you. I'm not sure about 'easily' better than Bale though. You have to give a player the respect he deserves when he's had such a great season. Until he starts to flop or whatever you have to give him it. There is nothing written in stone about Hazard becoming a footballing god. I can see you are all excited about him, as I would be, but the fact he gets hyped up or has some sort of super potential is simply heresay until it's proven.

Yes. But that is exactly the reason this debate on who is actually .... better/has a higher ceiling/.... needs the perspective of history as well. Bale did awesome, Eden very well. eden had his maiden year.

But the variable of played best next year to determine who's the best/promising/..... is a very bad one. Hazard did not as well as he did this year - but for Bale everything worked and Eden had his first year starting in a transition situation, a lot of young guys, a thin squad, sacking of the manager, ball boy shit, FSW ... So .... the only way to intelligibly is keep history in mind. Hazard might have played in a weaker league. Ligue 1 is not ALL the weak thing people some make of it -. And he ripped that place apart. Multiple years.

It gives the Bale/Hazard thing a new perspective .... that's all :-)

I don't agree that it needs history. History is just that. You can't live on past glories in football IMO. I don't see an easier way to say who is best currently than having two players go at it in the same league. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

[Stingray 9,441]

biased I am not. I call it like I see it. I can g:-)et things wrong though like anybody else. Biased, no

The very essence of a cognitive bias is that it is unconscious, unaware off and involunatary. The way you see it, has every bit of your bias in it, as I have mine.

That is why we talk, debate and confront.

[yuvala 2,167]

Thank you. Finally somebody that agrees. I thought this was turning into a pointless debate with so much negativity. I guess it's nearly run its course though - I didn't ever think I would win this one on a Chelsea forum anyway.

Well these arguments always lead to a dead end. You can't be sure about something like this, there are so many things to consider, and something you consider relevant is not nessecairly relevant to someone else. The thing is that there's no black or white, if u know what I mean.

Its like when fighting over CR7 vs. Messi.. its endless. You can say Messi scored more, you can say Ronaldo is more physical, you can say Messi can't do without Xavi and Iniesta, you can say Ronaldo sucks in Portugal, you can say Messi sucks in Argentina, you can say Ronaldo has a better shot, you can say Messi has better accuracy.... it's fucking ENDLESS.

[JayC 171]

The very essence of a cognitive bias is that it is unconscious, unaware off and involunatary. The way you see it, has every bit of your bias in it, as I have mine.

That is why we talk, debate and confront.

I don't even like Gareth Bale, mate. Go figure it out now.

Well these arguments always lead to a dead end. You can't be sure about something like this, there are so many things to consider, and something you consider relevant is not nessecairly relevant to someone else. The thing is that there's no black or white, if u know what I mean.

Its like when fighting over CR7 vs. Messi.. its endless. You can say Messi scored more, you can say Ronaldo is more physical, you can say Messi can't do without Xavi and Iniesta, you can say Ronaldo sucks in Portugal, you can say Messi sucks in Argentina, you can say Ronaldo has a better shot, you can say Messi has better accuracy.... it's fucking ENDLESS.

I agree. Well said.

[Stingray 9,441]

History is just that.

Lol. Ow Comon, you make a strawman out of me, mate.

If player history is just that (and i mean the players recent history - see the original post) - some players - like Rooney - would suddenly drop in 'ability'. That is foolish. Previous recent performances do count. What are you gonna do? Rate the players quality by match?

[Stingray 9,441]

I don't even like Gareth Bale, mate. Go figure it out now.

Who said you had to? Just google 'Confirmation Bias'.