25. Moisés Caicedo

[Thor 2,689]

Always asked to do the most in the middle, gets the most heat because of his price tag, but keeps getting better. 

"He is an absolute flop" 

Sure he is. 21 years old and the finished product. Footballers don't get better. Good thing Vini Jr was benched and never played again. Good thing we got rid of KDB and Salah. Good thing Didier wasn't given the time to grow into his role here. 

Football is a numbers game. We aren't losing games because we are overly less clinical than other teams. It is our defence. We need consistency and better players at CB. Sort that out, and we will be looking a lot better next season.

[Fernando 6,585]

Yup improving immensely and we do not have lavia back. I'm interested to see what he will bring next season if he can stay fit for crying out loud. 

 

[Stats 7,136]

If anyone is or still downplaying his passing, just look at his passing range yesterday and the winner was all because of his fantastic pass for James. His passing is underrated. May I must add, another solid game from him. Looking better and better.

[YorkshireBlue 3,264]

1 hour ago, Stats said:

If anyone is or still downplaying his passing, just look at his passing range yesterday and the winner was all because of his fantastic pass for James. His passing is underrated. May I must add, another solid game from him. Looking better and better.

Couldn't agree more, soon they will find something else they think he's trash at don't worry 🤣

[King Kante 1,643]

2 hours ago, Stats said:

If anyone is or still downplaying his passing, just look at his passing range yesterday and the winner was all because of his fantastic pass for James. His passing is underrated. May I must add, another solid game from him. Looking better and better.

I don't get posts like these either. Has he improved, sure but I equally don't think his passing was that great either yesterday. People in the last two games have been using his through ball to Jackson and his ball to James as examples of him doing 'baller' things.

However, the assit in the WH game was aided by their CB's being around 20m apart, and the Forest one was due to the FB being out of position which allowed him a massive space to knock it into. I would actually say his seeing the pass and hitting first time where the actual better qualities. Additionally, his arched pass to Palmer (who should've done much better) was also his best pass of the day imo. 

However, yesterday against Forest in the middle of the match there were times he gave the ball away easily under pressure. Those are really the moments I worry about him as these types of give aways are the ones that cause the games to get stretched/go 'back-to-front' too much. There have been major examples of him doing this this throughout the season such as the Utd game at home, City at home and Forest at home, Arsenal away etc.  

Now, I appreciate he is a young player and needs time to improve, which is fair enough - and a reason I have said I will give him next season to prove me wrong. However, I personally need to see him playing so well when we aren’t in the tail end of the season where the intensity always starts to drop off. 

[Mhsc 1,091]

For me his main weakness is concentration. I can't comprehend the talk about his passing. He is not Enzo but he is certainly very capable, to put it lightly, although he did play it a bit too safe for a while when he was at rock bottom for confidence.

With experience and good coaching he will assert himself as one of the world's top midfielders again. Shouldn't have paid £100m for him but we shouldn't have paid that for Enzo either frankly.

[Stats 7,136]

1 hour ago, King Kante said:

I don't get posts like these either. Has he improved, sure but I equally don't think his passing was that great either yesterday. People in the last two games have been using his through ball to Jackson and his ball to James as examples of him doing 'baller' things.

However, the assit in the WH game was aided by their CB's being around 20m apart, and the Forest one was due to the FB being out of position which allowed him a massive space to knock it into. I would actually say his seeing the pass and hitting first time where the actual better qualities. Additionally, his arched pass to Palmer (who should've done much better) was also his best pass of the day imo. 

However, yesterday against Forest in the middle of the match there were times he gave the ball away easily under pressure. Those are really the moments I worry about him as these types of give aways are the ones that cause the games to get stretched/go 'back-to-front' too much. There have been major examples of him doing this this throughout the season such as the Utd game at home, City at home and Forest at home, Arsenal away etc.  

Now, I appreciate he is a young player and needs time to improve, which is fair enough - and a reason I have said I will give him next season to prove me wrong. However, I personally need to see him playing so well when we aren’t in the tail end of the season where the intensity always starts to drop off. 

People were saying previously that his passing is poor and Gallagher’s passing is better. Caicedo is no Fabregas but I had literally provided proof of games where he has completely dominated the passing game.

Despite his passing not being great, he still had a pass completion of 92% and yes like you mentioned his pass for Palmer was brilliant and should have resulted in the game.

Kante was brilliant but I just disagree with people who say Kante was a better passer because he wasn’t. Caicedo long range passing is hugely underrated and some fans was not seeing it.

He has given the ball under pressure but that is also due to the team set up and not enough protection around him. When he was at Brighton you rarely saw those mistakes at all.

Even asides from his passing, his tackling is becoming a lot better and you can see once the team settles, he will be a key player. 

[King Kante 1,643]

35 minutes ago, Stats said:

People were saying previously that his passing is poor and Gallagher’s passing is better. Caicedo is no Fabregas but I had literally provided proof of games where he has completely dominated the passing game.

Despite his passing not being great, he still had a pass completion of 92% and yes like you mentioned his pass for Palmer was brilliant and should have resulted in the game.

Kante was brilliant but I just disagree with people who say Kante was a better passer because he wasn’t. Caicedo long range passing is hugely underrated and some fans was not seeing it.

He has given the ball under pressure but that is also due to the team set up and not enough protection around him. When he was at Brighton you rarely saw those mistakes at all.

Even asides from his passing, his tackling is becoming a lot better and you can see once the team settles, he will be a key player. 

The problem with the evidence of him displaying his great passing is that this is still outweighed across the season with where is passing directly led to giving a goal away. Additionally, even yesterday he was directly responsible for turn overs when pressed on the ball/had some loose passing.

Therefore, it is not so much I am not seeing his good passing - as I have even provided an example that people supporting him haven't made much reference to - it is more that I am not still not seeing the type of overall passing game over 90 mins that I expect from a midfielder in a team with aspirations for kicking on to try and win the league and competing in the CL in the short to medium term. This isn't to say he hasn't had a good pass here and there, it is more of an all round game thing and how I don't see a Caicedo type player in any of the elite sides in Europe. 

To be honest, I think (me participating in) the Caicedo debate is now better off as one for next season when - hopefully - we have all our options fit in midfield.

It could well be I have got things wrong and he develops quickly or I have been downplaying/not seeing things in his game. However, I am not going to be swayed by odd passes/sliced together highlights, in five-six games in the tail end of the season. 

Edited May 12, 2024 by King Kante

[ZAPHOD2319 4,799]

 

[Gundalf 805]

On 17/05/2024 at 13:00, ZAPHOD2319 said:

 

Just another reminder not to write off players too soon. Much more to come from him.

[Stats 7,136]

2 hours ago, Gundalf said:

Just another reminder not to write off players too soon. Much more to come from him.

Fans are too impatient that is the problem. The amount of stick he was getting for a young player settling in his first season in a dysfunctional team was beyond belief. It is not his fault we paid so much for him, but now we are seeing real quality from him. 

Finally he got his first goal for the club and in stunning fashion 🙌

[bluesman2610 1,415]

Put some respect on his name..