The Next Manager?

[LAM09 7,051]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

Tbh Im not realy buying into what someone has achieved as factor if he will succeed elsewhere/somewhere. 

Guardiola was appointed as Barca coach after managing only their B squad. 

Then again, Mourinho who won it all would be hardly a guarantee he wont flop at some new club.

Or AvB who was probably most promising coach at one point, he flopped. Same is happening with Emery who was successful with Sevila, but its clear Psg is way above his level. 

Zidane had no real experience before either but he did fantastic at Real, better than Ancelotti and Mou.

IMO what is crucial for manager at club is that he gets along with the board, and vice versa, and most importantly that he knows the culture of how club operates or gets enough financal and vocal support to achieve the goal that he and board share. 

IMO we would be stupid to not try Steve Holland at one point who knows the club well. And probably Lamps/Terry/Drogs at one point in future. 

It may be unpopular opinion but we should seriously consider ditching Marina. She is successful business woman, but she just doesnt have the passion/vision to make something great out of this club on football stage, if we go by recent work of her at club. Yeah, we made good on financial basis, but thats all business. In regards of creating football dinasty or modern football culture, she did jack shit and probably doesnt even understand it, its all about finance with her. 

I mean its good to have someone like that here, but not as director and someone who makes all key decisions. We need people with history to the club, with passion and people who know how football operates. City got Txiki who had experience, vision. What does Marina have in comparisson?

Football might be all about money these days, but if you want to actualy succeed, you still need heart and soul, passion and vision. Money doesnt give you that. 

We need coach that is here with a mission, not just someone that will try to do his job...

And obviously we need board that will support our manager, because its a rollercoaster at the top for a while now and it will get us nowhere. We need stability. Period.

 

 

The reason Zidane & Pep hit the ground running was largely down to how well they knew their respective clubs, which is why I'm an advocate of Terry, Lamps or Drogba joining the club in a managerial capacity in the near future. Emery was brought in by PSG to win or get to the latter stages of a competition he had never done well in, so the expectations were well above his pay grade from the start.

The board/Roman are now just appointing "Yes men" and they are the ones who get the chop when things go south as a result. Only manager that seemed to have full control during his tenure was Mourinho when he first joined. I've been saying for long enough that the structure of the board needs to change immediately if we want long term success instead of what we've been experiencing over the last few years. The club doesn't seem to have any plan or identity which is detrimental. 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

If Tuchel really goes to Arsenal than bullet dodged for us and Congrats to Arsenal. I think he fits them well with his attacking style and emphasis on flair players and he will win fuck all with them, maybe the occasional cup because they will be leaking goals right left and centre as Tuchel teams always do. Tuchel is a progressive manager and a difficult character so the AVB comparison is spot on. Tuchel on the Chelsea seat would be like a peacock on a vulcano. Probably looking spectacular with the right lighting but everyone knows it will end ugly.

[milka 3,394]

 

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, LAM09 said:

He got West Bromwich promoted and won two trophies within two months (can diminish the achievements as much as the next person but he was in charge).

Tuchel managed an unfancied Mainz for 5 seasons and guided them into the Europa League twice as well as 3 top 10 finishes. Di Matteo may have won 2 trophies within 2 months but look where has that gotten him - sacked from a number of jobs and out of one since 2016.

4 hours ago, LAM09 said:

Appointing Tuchel would be in the hope he could do something notable, as he's only won the DFB Pokal in 7 years.

We have hired countless of highly successful managers and they have not turned out to be great success, have they? 

4 hours ago, LAM09 said:

He'd be a bigger gamble than Enrique & that's saying something

Says who? You? Both are big gambles really. Enrique may have won more trophies than Tuchel but he had Messi, Neymar and Suarez at Barcelona. If we take that out of the equation, he didn't exactly did greatly elsewhere.

[LAM09 7,051]

47 minutes ago, Jason said:

Tuchel managed an unfancied Mainz for 5 seasons and guided them into the Europa League twice as well as 3 top 10 finishes. Di Matteo may have won 2 trophies within 2 months but look where has that gotten him - sacked from a number of jobs and out of one since 2016.

We have hired countless of highly successful managers and they have not turned out to be great success, have they? 

Says who? You? Both are big gambles really. Enrique may have won more trophies than Tuchel but he had Messi, Neymar and Suarez at Barcelona. If we take that out of the equation, he didn't exactly did greatly elsewhere.

Every "big name" manager with European experience has won a league title during their tenure, so you can measure success however you want.

Me & my neighbour's cat. Enrique knows what the expectations are of a big club and delivered regardless of the front line (managed to fail with the same line up last season as well, but that was probably his fault) whilst Tuchel doesn't/hasn't, as I previously mentioned. That's the difference between the two no matter how you paint it.

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Enrique knows what the expectations are of a big club and delivered regardless of the front line (managed to fail with the same line up last season as well, but that was probably his fault) whilst Tuchel doesn't/hasn't, as I previously mentioned. That's the difference between the two no matter how you paint it.

Dortmund might not exactly be a big club like Barcelona or Real Madrid but it's still fairly big these days. So, Tuchel does have some form of experience at one. Not to play down Enrique's success at Barcelona but any decent manager would success with the frontline that he had and speaking of Barcelona, Valverde had no big club experience before this season and yet, he's on his way to at least winning the domestic double. 

[LAM09 7,051]

30 minutes ago, Jason said:

Dortmund might not exactly be a big club like Barcelona or Real Madrid but it's still fairly big these days. So, Tuchel does have some form of experience at one. Not to play down Enrique's success at Barcelona but any decent manager would success with the frontline that he had and speaking of Barcelona, Valverde had no big club experience before this season and yet, he's on his way to at least winning the domestic double. 

Emery has a slightly weaker front line and can't even make it into the CL quarters. Talent alone doesn't win trophies.

He helped Valencia to a fifth place finish, so I refute your final point.

In conclusion, I don't want either of them here.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, LAM09 said:

Emery has a slightly weaker front line and can't even make it into the CL quarters. Talent alone doesn't win trophies.

He helped Valencia to a fifth place finish, so I refute your final point.

I only mentioned the final point about Valverde because you brought up Enrique knows a big club's expectations and how to deliver them. 

We can go in circles here but at the end of the day, as BlueLyon mentioned before, it comes down to what the board want. If they continue to demand instant success (with a flawed squad), then maybe Enrique is the better man for the job than Tuchel. But if they think long term and build for the future, then perhaps Tuchel is the better manager for this. Both managers represent a big risk and have a huge question mark hanging over them. Just depend on which option is worth taking the risk.

[LAM09 7,051]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

We can go in circles here but at the end of the day, as BlueLyon mentioned before, it comes down to what the board want. If they continue to demand instant success (with a flawed squad), then maybe Enrique is the better man for the job than Tuchel. But if they think long term and build for the future, then perhaps Tuchel is the better manager for this. Both managers represent a big risk and have a huge question mark hanging over them. Just depend on which option is worth taking the risk.

Whoever is appointed will be set to fail based on this season alone. Our last two managers have seemingly been victim of their own success; won the league and were rewarded with whatever in the market. There are no more ready made winners waiting in the wings this time around.

I'd loved to have seen what would have had happened if Pep was our manager last season.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Low-key Marcelino seems to be quality manager too.

He turned shit Valenica into very good one, transforming several underperforming players back in form.

 Barcelona is doing nice with Velverde, another one who was fairly unknown outside of Spain. 

People put too much attention on big name managers instead of focusing on managers that have fitting personality, style, ideas,...

[nathangeorge99 27]

Going by statistics, the only available manager who’s had some degree of success at every club he’s managed is Ancelotti. Could be an attractive option for potential transfer target, if we combined him with somehow getting top 4 next season. What would you think of him coming, compared to someone like Allegri or Tuchel?

[manpe 10,861]

4 minutes ago, nathangeorge99 said:

Going by statistics, the only available manager who’s had some degree of success at every club he’s managed is Ancelotti. Could be an attractive option for potential transfer target, if we combined him with somehow getting top 4 next season. What would you think of him coming, compared to someone like Allegri or Tuchel?

It's simple - don't hire somebody who'd been sacked before. I'd rather somebody with fresh ideas.

[Superblue 6,372]

2 hours ago, nathangeorge99 said:

Going by statistics, the only available manager who’s had some degree of success at every club he’s managed is Ancelotti. Could be an attractive option for potential transfer target, if we combined him with somehow getting top 4 next season. What would you think of him coming, compared to someone like Allegri or Tuchel?

In my opinion he shouldn't have been sacked so quickly the first time. There were similar underlying problems with the board's trust and faith in managers back then because after winning the double, the club sacked Ray Wilkins on a whim which in my opinion completely undermined Ancelotti and they let a number of players leave at the start of the second season without replacing them and leaving Ancelotti to trust in youth with a paper thin squad.

However I think the second spells of Mourinho and Hiddink show the pitfalls of a second stint, and I would like to see something different and fresh.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

7 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Low-key Marcelino seems to be quality manager too.

He turned shit Valenica into very good one, transforming several underperforming players back in form.

 Barcelona is doing nice with Velverde, another one who was fairly unknown outside of Spain. 

People put too much attention on big name managers instead of focusing on managers that have fitting personality, style, ideas,...

This is kind of our issue though, isn't it.  The real issue.  What is our philosophy?

We keep going through managers and have power struggles between the manager vs. the board.  

On one hand, the manager needs the players he needs.  On the other, managers want to win now and want to bring in players that may not be in the club's long term interests. 

Solution:  We play a certain way, we have a certain philosophy, we get the players and manager that reflect that philosophy. 

Jose, AVB, Ancelotti, Scolari....  Couldn't be more of a mash-up.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

5 hours ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

This is kind of our issue though, isn't it.  The real issue.  What is our philosophy?

We keep going through managers and have power struggles between the manager vs. the board.  

On one hand, the manager needs the players he needs.  On the other, managers want to win now and want to bring in players that may not be in the club's long term interests. 

Solution:  We play a certain way, we have a certain philosophy, we get the players and manager that reflect that philosophy. 

Jose, AVB, Ancelotti, Scolari....  Couldn't be more of a mash-up.

We dont have philosophy. But thats not something you make in one summer. 

Bayern, Barca, Real, United (had) philosophy that went for decades. 

Teams like City or Psg or us dont have philosophy. 

What we can do (Psg and City did) is to create a plan for future and bring people that suit it. 

Be it work on young talents, buy galacticos, play attacking or defensive,...

We have to create a plan and stick to it. But obviously managers might flop and leave, however our board needs smart people who will continue with project and execute it. And thats the problem, we have idiots on board right now.

I dont like City at all, but they have absolutely perfect plan. They spend alot, but IMO they would succeed with half the money (our budget), it would just take more time for them. They have the coach, the idea and that made them interesting to new players, something we lack more and more every year. 

But the main reason for their succees is quality of the board. 

Marina vs Txiki is just not comparable.

[manpe 10,861]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

Txiki

How do you pronounce that mess? Any way I try my tongue gets twisted.

[Tomo 21,751]

11 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

In my opinion he shouldn't have been sacked so quickly the first time. There were similar underlying problems with the board's trust and faith in managers back then because after winning the double, the club sacked Ray Wilkins on a whim which in my opinion completely undermined Ancelotti and they let a number of players leave at the start of the second season without replacing them and leaving Ancelotti to trust in youth with a paper thin squad.

However I think the second spells of Mourinho and Hiddink show the pitfalls of a second stint, and I would like to see something different and fresh.

I heard that Ray's sacking came about because his response to Roman criticising some performances was something along the lines of  "we have just won the double what more do you want?". If that was true he fully deserved to be fired, no wonder the team got so complacent if that was the attitude of one of the coaches.

Usually i would take rumours like this with a pinch of salt, but Ray says some unbelievably stupid things as a pundit and because of that i can actually visualize him saying the above, infact it sounds like exactly something he would say.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

4 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

We dont have philosophy. But thats not something you make in one summer. 

Bayern, Barca, Real, United (had) philosophy that went for decades. 

Teams like City or Psg or us dont have philosophy. 

What we can do (Psg and City did) is to create a plan for future and bring people that suit it. 

Be it work on young talents, buy galacticos, play attacking or defensive,...

We have to create a plan and stick to it. But obviously managers might flop and leave, however our board needs smart people who will continue with project and execute it. And thats the problem, we have idiots on board right now.

I dont like City at all, but they have absolutely perfect plan. They spend alot, but IMO they would succeed with half the money (our budget), it would just take more time for them. They have the coach, the idea and that made them interesting to new players, something we lack more and more every year. 

But the main reason for their succees is quality of the board. 

Marina vs Txiki is just not comparable.

I agree.  I'm more lamenting that it hasn't been done before. 

City are building with a philosophy.  Since Txiki has been there, everything was about getting a team ready for Pep.  I'm sure the next manager in will share a similar possession based attacking philosophy.

 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

3 hours ago, manpe said:

How do you pronounce that mess? Any way I try my tongue gets twisted.

Correct way is ''cheeky''

 

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

16 hours ago, manpe said:

How do you pronounce that mess? Any way I try my tongue gets twisted.

Cheeky