Chelsea Transfers

[OhForAGreavsie 6,065]

On 23/12/2021 at 01:16, NikkiCFC said:

We celebrated stealing Werner from them yet they bought under the radar player who is doing better.

I warned people not to buy that nonsense about Liverpool being unable to afford Timo. I warned that it was simply that they didn't want to afford him, and that if they felt he was worth the money they would have found it. I further warned that we are not a preferred destination for players who are in high demand. That if a supposed top player wants to come here it's because he is in fact not wanted by any club he would prefer to join. The implication of these facts is we should not spend big money on supposed stars. We just get fleeced for players who, in reality, are at least one rank down. Instead we need to identify the great players before they establish themselves. Very hard. Even harder now than it was when we found KDB and Moh Salah but it's still our best plan.

Edited December 31, 2021 by OhForAGreavsie

[ZAPHOD2319 4,803]

 

 

The newspaper states: ‘Kimpembe, who feels that, from one season to the next, the clans are reforming, the favouritism returns and the collective withers away, also wonders.’

It’s further stated the France international is ‘wondering if the grass would not be greener in England, in particular at Chelsea’, where his former manager is currently in charge.

Kimpembe seems tempted to join the Premier League side because of the prospect of reuniting with Tuchel at Chelsea.

[Jase 43,479]

10 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I warned people not to buy that nonsense about Liverpool being unable to afford Timo. I warned that it was simply that they didn't want to afford him, and that if they felt he was worth the money they would have found it. I further warned that we are not a preferred destination for players who are in high demand. That if a supposed top player wants to come here it's because he is in fact not wanted by any club he would prefer to join. The implication of these facts is we should not spend big money on supposed stars. We just get fleeced for players at least one rank down. Instead we need to identify the great players before they establish themselves. Very hard. Even harder now than it was when we found KDB and Moh Salah but it's still our best plan.

You're probably not gonna change your mind but Liverpool did want Werner before Jota, according to the reliable sources out there. The only reason things changed for them is because of the pandemic. Liverpool have always been frugal with their spending under FSG, even more so after the pandemic happened. Werner had a release clause at Leipzig, so if someone wants to buy him, they have to pay the whole amount upfront, something that Liverpool were reluctant to do when the pandemic hit. With Jota, he didn't have a release clause at Wolves, meaning Liverpool can negotiate a payment structure with them with small amount of money paid every year etc instead of splashing 50 million in one go without having a clear picture of the financial situation back.  

[Jase 43,479]

11 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

How come Liverpool always find and buy attacking players who deliver crazy numbers? After Mane and Salah they now have Jota who had 13 goals last season and already 12 this season and it is not even a half season.

All 3 bought for less than 40m pounds. Meanwhile we bought Lukaku for over 100m, Havertz 72m, Werner 47m, Pulisic 58m... And our players were rated much higher.

We celebrated stealing Werner from them yet they bought under the radar player who is doing better.

And somehow I feel if Werner, Pulisic, Havertz are there they would also produce better numbers and play at higher level. And Jota, Mane would struggle here so not sure it is just about players.

If we get Chiesa for 100m they will just find someone like Dennis who will than have better numbers.

You sound so surprised. When you think about it, we are kinda like a graveyard for attackers. Over the last decade or so, how many attackers that we bought truly shone during their time at the club? You can probably count them all on one hand - Costa, Hazard and Mata. 

[Pizy 18,877]

We’re just painfully mediocre at buying attacking players. Other than Hazard we haven’t struck gold on an attacking player in like a decade. And he would’ve turned out world class no matter where he went. Every super expensive, highly rated attacking player we’ve bought has either turned out merely “good” or a straight up bust. 
 

We are excellent at getting defenders and midfielders at decent prices (Cesc, Kante, Azpi, Rüdiger, Kova, etc) but for whatever reason we find it extremely difficult to get attackers who elevate their level to a world class level.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,065]

48 minutes ago, Jase said:

Liverpool did want Werner before Jota, according to the reliable sources out there. The only reason things changed for them is because of the pandemic. Liverpool have always been frugal with their spending under FSG, even more so after the pandemic happened. Werner had a release clause at Leipzig, so if someone wants to buy him, they have to pay the whole amount upfront, something that Liverpool were reluctant to do when the pandemic hit.

This is exactly what I argued against previously and I simply do not believe it. You are buying the Liverpool propaganda. I am not.

50 minutes ago, Jase said:

Werner had a release clause at Leipzig, so if someone wants to buy him, they have to pay the whole amount upfront

You fundamentally misunderstand this. Buyers and sellers can always negotiate on any aspect of a transfer, IF THEY WANT TO. Of course a seller will start by insisting on the clause but if there are no takers, and circumstances are such that they want to sell for whatever reason, they will do a deal. 

57 minutes ago, Jase said:

With Jota, he didn't have a release clause at Wolves, meaning Liverpool can negotiate a payment structure with them with small amount of money paid every year etc instead of splashing 50 million in one go without having a clear picture of the financial situation back.

Same fundamental misunderstanding as above. Clauses are only words on paper. Clubs can always set them aside IF THEY WANT TO.

[Jase 43,479]

7 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

This is exactly what I argued against previously and I simply do not believe it. You are buying the Liverpool propaganda. I am not.

Exactly why I said what I said. lol

7 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

You fundamentally misunderstand this. Buyers and sellers can always negotiate on any aspect of a transfer, IF THEY WANT TO. Of course a seller will start by insisting on the clause but if there are no takers, and circumstances are such that they want to sell for whatever reason, they will do a deal. 

Of course they can always negotiate but there was no reason for Leipzig to not stick with the clause at that time considering Werner was a wanted player - not just by Liverpool. 

[OhForAGreavsie 6,065]

1 hour ago, Pizy said:

Every super expensive, highly rated attacking player we’ve bought has either turned out merely “good” or a straight up bust.

Here lies the problem. There were voices warning against signing Shevchenko, Marrin, Torres, Lukaku and others but our decision makers did not agree. There has been, in my opinion, an immaturity about our transfer business, preferring the shiniest over the the thing of true value. If our decision makers are unable to learn they will keep repeating the same expensive errors.

Edited December 23, 2021 by OhForAGreavsie

[OhForAGreavsie 6,065]

13 minutes ago, Jase said:

Of course they can always negotiate but there was no reason for Leipzig to not stick with the clause at that time considering Werner was a wanted player - not just by Liverpool. 

I agree this is accurate but what you said before was not. As ever with negotiations it depends on where the power lies.

[LAM09 7,043]

12 hours ago, Pizy said:

We’re just painfully mediocre at buying attacking players.

Liverpool's and arguably one of the top three players in the world at least was originally signed by us btw.

The issue hasn't been identifying targets for the most part, but not putting up the fee being quoted or signing them once they're on the decline (Torres, Eto'o, Falcao & could throw Higuain in the mix too). 

To me, the club's failure to sign Aguero was one of the biggest mistakes we've made in that regard.

Edited December 24, 2021 by LAM09

[ZAPHOD2319 4,803]

Two Americans on the team??

 

 

[Blues Forever 1,232]

1 hour ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

Two Americans on the team??

 

 

Dest isn't really good, there is a reason why Xavi want to sell him. 

[Blues Forever 1,232]

4 hours ago, LAM09 said:

Liverpool's and arguably one of the top three players in the world at least was originally signed by us btw.

The issue hasn't been identifying targets for the most part, but not putting up the fee being quoted or signing them once they're on the decline (Torres, Eto'o, Falcao & could throw Higuain in the mix too). 

To me, the club's failure to sign Aguero was one of the biggest mistakes we've made in that regard.

The issue is we don't have a competent DoF and scouts (aside De Visser). 

This is the recent example of poor scouting, signed a player who have a confidence issue in the last 2-3 years. Then you also has Lukaku who clearly doesn't suit Tuchel's system.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Blues Forever

[Vesper 30,119]

17 hours ago, Jase said:

You sound so surprised. When you think about it, we are kinda like a graveyard for attackers. Over the last decade or so, how many attackers that we bought truly shone during their time at the club? You can probably count them all on one hand - Costa, Hazard and Mata. 

Mata was a two season wonder (his 2012-13 season was Messi-like stats wise, other than less goals. He had an INSANE 35 assists), but never really was a big league goal scorer for his entire career. He only scored in double digits in the league goals twice ever, once with Valencia (11 in 2008-09) and then that crazy 2012-13 season with us, when he scored 11 league goals, and 19 overall, plus those 35 assists, Wikipedia gave him an extra league goal, so they are off, he had 11 league, and 19 all comps, not 12 and 20). He scored 6 league goals for us in 2011-12 and had zero league goals in 2013-14 with us (one overall in 17 games), before he was sold to Manure.

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

18 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Mata was a two season wonder (his 2012-13 season was Messi-like stats wise, other than less goals. He had an INSANE 35 assists), but never really was a big league goal scorer for his entire career. He only scored in double digits in the league goals twice ever, once with Valencia (11 in 2008-09) and then that crazy 2012-13 season with us, when he scored 11 league goals, and 19 overall, plus those 35 assists, Wikipedia gave him an extra league goal, so they are off, he had 11 league, and 19 all comps, not 12 and 20). He scored 6 league goals for us in 2011-12 and had zero league goals in 2013-14 with us (one overall in 17 games), before he was sold to Manure.

 

 

Who's talking about just the goals?

He also provided lots of assists and his attacking impact was also a lot better than so many that we have bought over the last decade.