Mikel John Obi

[manpe 10,857]

27 minutes ago, Robguima said:

fair enough

no the other top teams are not exclusively comprised of demanding superstars, neither do they have any player as passive and comfortable as mikel.

That's the key where we most disagree: I think mikel is very greedy. I think he only cares about money and that's the only reason he's stayed. Now if you believe player love clubs, I'm not going to stop you.

I do not base my judgment on what they say whatsoever. Most of it is very well thought out, often with the blessing of the club and most certainly input from their agent. What is he supposed to say? I wish I could play more, but no other club will give me 75K a week, so I rather sit on the bench or not even that, than play in a smaller club for far lower wages - have you seriously ever heard a player say anything like this?  

You have all the right in the world to believe he is a greedy cunt and you COULD be right, but it is all only speculation and shall I say a bit prejudiced? I try to base my judgements on more substantial evidence. In fact I've heard about him doing good things with his money in Nigeria.

If he was such a nuisance to the club, then they would have no problem ostracizing and forcing him out like they did with Bogarde, Malouda and I think also Anelka and Alex? Mourinho did that to Schweinsteiger for unknown reasons and he's not a worse footballer than Mikel. I haven't seen anybody saying or hinting anything bad about him, people who have actually worked with him. I don't recall any controversies and scandals surrounding him either, I believe he's a decent man the way he comes across, just not a very gifted footballer. He's survived every manager who all have found a way to utilize him. The club has extended his contract several times and it's not because everybody in the club hates him and wants him out. Maybe they do now and I believe he will go.

[robsblubot 3,263]

13 minutes ago, manpe said:

You have all the right in the world to believe he is a greedy cunt and you COULD be right, but it is all only speculation and shall I say a bit prejudiced? I try to base my judgements on more substantial evidence. In fact I've heard about him doing good things with his money in Nigeria.

If he was such a nuisance to the club, then they would have no problem ostracizing and forcing him out like they did with Bogarde, Malouda and I think also Anelka and Alex? Mourinho did that to Schweinsteiger for unknown reasons and he's not a worse footballer than Mikel. I haven't seen anybody saying or hinting anything bad about him, people who have actually worked with him. I don't recall any controversies and scandals surrounding him either, I believe he's a decent man the way he comes across, just not a very gifted footballer. He's survived every manager who all have found a way to utilize him. The club has extended his contract several times and it's not because everybody in the club hates him and wants him out. Maybe they do now and I believe he will go.

you see you are linking being greedy with being bad or unprofessional and I think it could be exactly the other way around.

He may be a good person, help others (I also think he does), and in order to do that (having that in the back of his mind) he chooses money over playing time.

(not going into the technical aspects as we've been there before a few thousand times :))

[manpe 10,857]

16 minutes ago, Robguima said:

you see you are linking being greedy with being bad or unprofessional and I think it could be exactly the other way around.

He may be a good person, help others (I also think he does), and in order to do that (having that in the back of his mind) he chooses money over playing time.

(not going into the technical aspects as we've been there before a few thousand times :))

We are all greedy to an extent. Most people in the world will say that they prefer the employer with the highest salary unless the working conditions are horrible, doesn't mean they think only about money, we just want the best possible conditions for survival and habitat. Generally speaking criticizing people for choosing the highest pay is hypocritical unless you totally exclude that from your decision making. You can make a point that footballers live in a different world, but truth is that the thought processes are the same, we are all human and are conditioned to living in relation to our social status and class, it is just different for millionaires from the class we are accustomed to. Question is if you are evil-greedy (resulting in harm to others) or normal-greedy (no harm to others)  I have no problems with the latter. Hell, if Mikel's greed brings good to the less fortunate, then more power to him!

Anyway, it seems the discussion over Mikel has dried out, I'm not interested in going philosophical over greed, money and all that. You might have a point and I respect that, I simply think you may be unfair towards him.

[robsblubot 3,263]

18 minutes ago, manpe said:

We are all greedy to an extent. Most people in the world will say that they prefer the employer with the highest salary unless the working conditions are horrible, doesn't mean they think only about money. Generally speaking criticizing people for choosing the highest pay is hypocritical unless you totally exclude that from your decision making. You can make a point that footballers live in a different world, but truth is that the thought processes are the same, we are all human and are conditioned to living in relation to our social status and class, it is just different for millionaires from the class we are accustomed to. Question is if you are evil-greedy or normal-greedy  Anyway, it seems the discussion over Mikel has dried out, I'm not interested in going philosophical over greed, money and all that. You may have a point and I respect that, I simply think you are too aggressive in your stances.

Yeah my original point wasn't even so much about greed, but merely how lack of ambition is not healthy in the extremely competitive business of professional football and at the highest level at that.

Concerning my aggressiveness, perhaps I've been able to "keep some of that aggression in my late life" - ironic.

[manpe 10,857]

2 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Yeah my original point wasn't even so much about green, but merely how lack of ambition is not health in the extremely competitive business of professional football and at the highest level at that.

Concerning my aggressiveness, perhaps I've been able to "keep some of that aggression in my late life" - ironic.

FYI I tend to edit my posts several times after posting, it's like an OCD I can't help it. You might want to reread some of them, I've corrected some wordings to better reflect what I was thinking.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

He should have come out and called the manager, the board and everyone at the club twats instead!  

[robsblubot 3,263]

10 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

He should have come out and called the manager, the board and everyone at the club twats instead!  

No, he couldn't and he wouldn't and that was exactly my point before: this is just PR

[manpe 10,857]

1 minute ago, Robguima said:

No, he couldn't and he wouldn't and that was exactly my point before: this is just PR

Speculation.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

4 minutes ago, Robguima said:

No, he couldn't and he wouldn't and that was exactly my point before: this is just PR

Yeah, obviously because the Mikel brand is HUGE around the world and needs to be maintained!

No, it was a nice-guy reply and it was just nice to read a grounded (in many ways old-school) reply rather than the usual diva attitudes that most players at this level tend to have nowadays. 

[robsblubot 3,263]

9 minutes ago, manpe said:

Speculation.

Perhaps but in my view I am the non-believer and others are the ones speculating - believing words at face value when a lot if at stake.

Does he employ an agent? Isn't part of his agent's job help with what he say or not to the press? Is this speculation or I am basing my opinion on something I know agents are involved in? Does he run everything he says by the club also? I don't know but he might. Wouldn't surprise me.

Have you ever refrained yourself from saying something about your employer or employer's customer, just because it wasn't proper even if true? Happens all the fucking time.

@CHOULO19 are you kidding me?! his agent won't ever stop chatting with the press.

[manpe 10,857]

8 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Perhaps but in my view I am the non-believer and others are the ones speculating - believing words at face value when a lot if at stake.

Does he employ an agent? Isn't part of his agent's job help with what he say or not to the press? Is this speculation or I am basing my opinion on something I know agents are involved in? Does he run everything he says by the club also? I don't know but he might. Wouldn't surprise me.

Have you ever refrained yourself from saying something about your employer or employer's customer, just because it wasn't proper even if true? Happens all the fucking time.

@CHOULO19 are you kidding me?! his agent won't ever stop chatting with the press.

Yes, they have PR help, but we cannot know if what they say in particular cases was calculated or just said impromptu to a journalist asking. In any case, if he is bullshitting, then Courtois should hire his agent, think we all can agree on that.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

@Robguima let it go, mate.

When you can't even bare someone saying "hey, it was nice that Mikel said that very respectful thing", you might have an irrational hate of him. 

[robsblubot 3,263]

4 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

@Robguima let it go, mate.

When you can't even bare someone saying "hey, it was nice that Mikel said that very respectful thing", you might have an irrational hate of him. 

quite on the contrary: as a person I've heard really great things of him during the olympics... a class act.

Still it has nothing to do with football, agents, or PR.

There is nothing irrational about my dislike of him as a player: I have very clear in my mind the things he doesn't do and I wish he did (quite a few).

[The Skipper 20,593]

7 hours ago, Robguima said:

fair enough

no the other top teams are not exclusively comprised of demanding superstars, neither do they have any player as passive and comfortable as mikel.

That's where we mostly disagree: I think mikel is very greedy. I think he only cares about money and that's the only reason he's stayed. Now if you believe player love clubs, I'm not going to stop you.

I do not base my judgment on what they say whatsoever. Most of it is very well thought out, often with the blessing of the club and most certainly input from their agent. What is he supposed to say? I wish I could play more, but no other club will give me 75K a week, so I rather sit on the bench or not even that, than play in a smaller club for far lower wages - have you seriously ever heard a player say anything like this?  

Real Madrid had Arbeloa for years. 

[11Drogba 2,000]

3 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Real Madrid had Arbeloa for years. 

Arbeloa may not seem like one but he is a very passionate player. Casillas: " Arbeloa is a leader in the dressing room and when he speaks, you listen”. I have also seen pre-game footage that supports what Casillas says.

Passive and comfortable players are more common in British teams in my opinion, because fans are more forgiving and less demanding than Spanish or Italian fans.

 

 

[wilander 35]

Someone says that Mikel Obi deserves starter in the club, but if Mikel Obi is good engouh, why Chelsea FC buy Matic then Kante?

Without doubts, his good performance in UCL 2012 final helped Chelsea to win first-ever title, however, Mikel is uni-functional for Bus-parking defence style. Now Chelsea FC is no longer Bus-parking team, his sluggish movement causes him totally fail to fit Conte's 343/352 formation. It is suggested that he should transfer out.

If Mikel Obi is good engouh, why Chelsea FC buy Matic then Kante.

Without doubts, his good performance in UCL 2012 final helped Chelsea to win first-ever title, however, Mikel is uni-functional for Bus-parking defence style. Now Chelsea FC is no longer Bus-parking team, his sluggish movement causes him totally fail to fit Conte's 343/352 formation. It is suggested that he should transfer out.

If Mikel Obi is good engouh, why Chelsea FC buy Matic then Kante.

Without doubts, his good performance in UCL 2012 final helped Chelsea to win first-ever title, however, Mikel is uni-functional for Bus-parking defence style. Now Chelsea FC is no longer Bus-parking team, his sluggish movement causes him totally fail to fit Conte's 343/352 formation. It is suggested that he should transfer out.

[manpe 10,857]

4 hours ago, wilander said:

Someone says that Mikel Obi deserves starter in the club

Who says? 

[The Skipper 20,593]

8 hours ago, wilander said:

Someone says that Mikel Obi deserves starter in the club, but if Mikel Obi is good engouh, why Chelsea FC buy Matic then Kante?

Nobody says this lol.