Mikel John Obi

[Muzchap 8,966]

I did not understand most of that. And I think you completely missed his point about the keeper. He was saying that Wolves chances came from Oriol's misplaced passes when he attempted to be 'creative' (god I hate that word!)

Yeah that's the point I'm trying to make, instead of answering my question, I get everything and the kitchen sink thrown in.

As for Wolves not interested in that

What I wanted answering was;

Out of the 60+% of Mikel forward passes, how many were key passes...

Not unreasonable?

[The only place to be 11,313]

Maybe Benitez can work with him in training?

We need a world class DM and Striker in Jan.

If we fail to do that, then we will be struggling hard for 4th in the Prem...

Just my opinion

I agree 100%. I don't want Mikel making incisive passes or even getting forward much.

I simply want him to do his job which is to effectively move the ball to create spaces (as seb says), whilst also doing his job defensively. I'm not bothered about him making 'key passes' because that's really not his job in my opinion.

The problem is that we have to mask his deficiencies by playing Ramires alongside him, in my opinion.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Yeah that's the point I'm trying to make, instead of answering my question, I get everything and the kitchen sink thrown in.

As for Wolves not interested in that

What I wanted answering was;

Out of the 60+% of Mikel forward passes, how many were key passes...

Not unreasonable?

0.5 per game according to whoscored: http://www.whoscored.com/Players/15464

[Muzchap 8,966]

I agree 100%. I don't want Mikel making incisive passes or even getting forward much.

I simply want him to do his job which is to effectively move the ball to create spaces (as seb says), whilst also doing his job defensively. I'm not bothered about him making 'key passes' because that's really not his job in my opinion.

The problem is that we have to mask his deficiencies by playing Ramires alongside him, in my opinion.

Thing is, is he really that great defensively?

He seems to stroll around and end up in terrible positions..?

I have no diagrams, just my tired old eyes...

I think him + Ramires need replacing, if honest - Busquets + Alonso will do

[Muzchap 8,966]

0.5 per game according to whoscored: http://www.whoscored.com/Players/15464

So 1 decent pass every 2 games?

Fuck me that's worse than Torres!

[Blue Armour 4,436]

I still give you credit for cutting the initial image to give the feeling Mikel is a pensioner in wheelchair who cannot pass the ball. Fair play to you.

Do you even bother to read my post, or do you find it so tough to comprehend simple statements?

Nice illustrations, but I was referring to instances like in this picture:

For this particular example, there was no real problem as Ramires had moved forward when Hazard dropped deep. Thus the attacking shape was preserved. But there are instances where Mikel ponders with the ball too long, making the forward players drop back to make the pass Mikel could have made. This is detrimental in situations where we are on the back-foot/ chasing a game.

If I wanted to hide behind that picture, I wouldn't have bothered telling you from which point in the match that was from. The only reason I showed that picture was to show that there are instances when Mikel forces an attacker to drop deep JUST Like Hazard positioned himself in that one, when he could have opted for a better pass.

.I like you illustrations and generally agree with a lot of your posts, but the condescending nature of your replies is getting annoying.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Thing is, is he really that great defensively?

He seems to stroll around and end up in terrible positions..?

I have no diagrams, just my tired old eyes...

I think him + Ramires need replacing, if honest - Busquets + Alonso will do

That's what's funny - no he isn't

His positional sense is iffy, his work-rate is occasionally embarrassing and because he's slow to move the ball on sometimes, he can get caught in possession or isolated which puts pressure on the player he passes to.

[Muzchap 8,966]

That's what's funny - no he isn't

His positional sense is iffy, his work-rate is occasionally embarrassing and because he's slow to move the ball on sometimes, he can get caught in possession or isolated which puts pressure on the player he passes to.

Wow, you, me and @kojo are either all correct or horribly wrong

Lets see what happens

[The only place to be 11,313]

Wow, you, me and @kojo are either all correct or horribly wrong

Lets see what happens

I can't think of a more divisive player in Chelsea's recent history. Torres might come close but that argument could be settled by goals scored. Luiz maybe, but most people agree he has the talent but needs to cut out the brain farts and could be world class.

Mikel is really the marmite man (or so Clattenburg allegedly called him ). You either love him or hate him.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

So 1 decent pass every 2 games?

Fuck me that's worse than Torres!

Are you saying that only key passes are decent? You are skipping the game and watching the 5 min highlights. Sure they are more 'exciting' but there are 85 mins of hard work that made those 5 mins possible.

It is not Mikel's job to play key passes. His job, offensively, is to keep possession and move the ball to the players whose job is to make key passes. If he makes a key pass every other game, while not risking loosing possession cheaply, then that's a plus he brings.

Criticizing Mikel for not making enough key passes is about as logical as saying Ashley is terrible offensively because he never scores.

[The only place to be 11,313]

That's basic stuff, if you have no options, simply don't give the ball away cheaply

*cough* Juventus *cough*.

[Muzchap 8,966]

5

We can discuss about Mikel's evolution from 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1, what it implies on his passing, instructions etc... I'm fully open to discuss that.

But when we note that he doesn't pass enough forward, we've to take into consideration that he prefers hold the ball and chose another options than give the ball away.

That's basic stuff, if you have no options, simply don't give the ball away cheaply

Agree - but, is it a chicken and egg scenario...

Do players drop deep to get the ball because they know he 'cannot' find them?

If so then that is artificially distorting our shape and movement.

I don't know - I like Mikel as a person, just don't like him in that role, feel we're way too slow...

[Muzchap 8,966]

Are you saying that only key passes are decent? You are skipping the game and watching the 5 min highlights. Sure they are more 'exciting' but there are 85 mins of hard work that made those 5 mins possible.

It is not Mikel's job to play key passes. His job, offensively, is to keep possession and move the ball to the players whose job is to make key passes. If he makes a key pass every other game, while not risking loosing possession cheaply, then that's a plus he brings.

Criticizing Mikel for not making enough key passes is about as logical as saying Ashley is terrible offensively because he never scores.

Er not at all...

Why should a defender score? Stop twisting my words...

Mikel is supposed to:

A) Provide defensive cover

provide an outlet for defenders

So yes, as a COUNTER attacking team, he should be doing more with the ball, so should Ramires.

Instead our attacking players fall deeper and deeper to get the ball meaning less space/time on the ball and everything gets broken down.

That's my point, be interested to see how wrong I am

[Kojo 4,676]

Drogba doesn't score goals in finals, can't you just respect me and my opinion ? That's what I think.

Lampard doesn't score many goals each season, even for a midfielder. That's what I think, you have to respect that, you're not right just because you say to me he scored 10+ each season for 10 years.

That's always figures, figures. I think Lampard doesn't scores enough, the only thing you can respond to me is stupid scoring figures.

You got it wrong, Drogba scores in finals, that's a fact, 9 in 9, however you should've posted Drogba doesn't play well in finals, then you would have at least bit of an arguement. But even then Drogs usually performs top dog in finals and scores at the same time.

[Muzchap 8,966]

You should compare Ballack/Lampard's use of the space and availability alongside Mikel with our current attacking players'. You'll understand for sure what's about availability

There has been situations where Mikel didn't release the ball at the right time. But that's probably as frequent as his key passes compared to the amount of passes he plays. The amount of passes he plays would mean to be the situations where Mikel has litteraly no options around him.

That's about 0.5%/99.5% (exact rate of Mikel's key passes/passes from this season)

Ballack + Lampard were certainly more experienced than Mata/Oscar/Moses...

But I don't think they have confidence in Mikel finding them...

Hopefully we sign a good DM next to Mikel to take the pressure off and then we can see how the attacking lads respond to a good forward passer