Timo Werner

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Can we get Pedro back? 😂 He was unpredictable but in a good way. Werner is just unpredictable but not in a good way.

You're hilarious.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

You're hilarious.

I am beginning to wonder though with Tuchel, Pedro seems like the sort of system player he would of liked. Although could never rely on the guy really bar that title winning season with Conte which was a shame.

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I am beginning to wonder though with Tuchel, Pedro seems like the sort of system player he would of liked. Although could never rely on the guy really bar that title winning season with Conte which was a shame.

The thing with Pedro is that we bought him when he was already 28 years old. He was going close to 30 and supposedly at the wrong end of his peak age.

As for Werner, think he can fill that role under Tuchel and we can argue about his current inconsistency till the cows come home again etc but I don't know why you're picking him out for yesterday. As you alluded to in the match thread, he did nothing outstanding but he did nothing horrible either. He did OK in linking up the play and did not even getting any meaningful service to do damage (or to miss chances!) despite West Brom giving us opportunities to let him thrive in transitions. There were others who were far worse and cost us goals but I haven't seen you said anything about those players.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

The thing with Pedro is that we bought him when he was already 28 years old. He was going close to 30 and supposedly at the wrong end of his peak age.

As for Werner, think he can fill that role under Tuchel and we can argue about his current inconsistency till the cows come home again etc but I don't know why you're picking him out for yesterday. As you alluded to in the match thread, he did nothing outstanding but he did nothing horrible either. He did OK in linking up the play and did not even getting any meaningful service to do damage (or to miss chances!) despite West Brom giving us opportunities to let him thrive in transitions. There were others who were far worse and cost us goals but I haven't seen you said anything about those players.

I know but for me, he doesn’t look like someone who is ever going to be capable of doing anything more than just being this player who is doing the little he is doing at this rate. Game by game, its just accumulating for me, the more games I watch of us with him playing I struggle to see why he is in the team because he virtually does nothing that affects the game for us most of the time. Ok he has pace and thats good for our attacking transition but what else does he bring to the team? Maybe he gets in behind teams defensive lines at times (lets be honest any striker/attacker playing in the PL should be capable of this) but its not as if he even makes lots and lots of these runs a game or that he makes chances for others from open play very often when he drifts out wider or does anything else that makes you think you know what I hope he’s playing today because he can add something to the team. 

I mean he set Mount up with a 4 or 5 yard pass v WBA but I mean he could of easily scored that himself. The feint to put the defender down was impressive to be honest but why has he not just let it come across his body or used his instep to guide it in to the right hand side of the goal? Giroud or Abraham would of shot and scored that from Alonso’s ball I think. I mean the defenders there but the GK had left him basically the whole right side of the goal. Fuck half the team would of probably got it in. Says a lot about how confident he is and whilst there is trying to play someone through a slump to try end a goal drought, we are talking 1 PL goal in 20 games slump, 14 games, few performances where you think this guy can do something, scores once, then back to being well pretty much you wouldnt miss him if he wasnt in the team and you dont really notice him when he is. And unfortunately hes not the first striker we have had this happen to either. I mean I dont want to compare him to Torres because thats unfair and not completely accurate but I still dont get why he didn’t shoot from that Alonso ball, look at where the GK was and the amount of space to the keepers left. Its basically 2/3s of the net. All he had to do was get it to the corner. That was Torres-esque. Scared to shoot because hes scared to miss.

Strikers having a quiet game or a few a season is understandable or even going through a wee bad spell but strikers having quiet games where you forget their even playing or poor games consistently is not good. Or not scoring in the league in 14 games. Then scoring once and not scoring for another 6 games currently. If thats not worrying or if you can’t see why people are maybe digging him out then I dont know. Its not just yesterdays game. Everyone was poor we all know that. Nobody is going to deny he wasn’t the worst player on the pitch but majority of the other games with Tuchel , which he has started, theres no doubts about it as to why people are questioning his inclusion every week. 

I know Tuchel can say he just needs to be patient, he knows how to score, the whole sometimes you give a women space/back off and she will call you thing etc bla bla bla but Giroud and Abraham may as well be playing with the u18s if they seriously cannot convince Tuchel to play them either in tandem or instead of him, it would be near impossible for any of them to come in and do considerably worse than what we have generally gotten from Werner since the end of November bar the odd hopeful moment or two every now and then.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

His lack of confidence worked in our favour for once. If he had been on it, he would have taken the shot instead of squaring to the better positioned Mount to score. All counts for nothing in the end tho 

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

12 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

His lack of confidence worked in our favour for once. If he had been on it, he would have taken the shot instead of squaring to the better positioned Mount to score. All counts for nothing in the end tho 

True but surely if he’s desperate for a goal, when your 4-1 down, you just shoot? Right? Strikers are greedy, or they are meant to be. If it was 3-2  I could see why hes shat it a bit and squared it but at 4-1, not sure

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I know but for me, he doesn’t look like someone who is ever going to be capable of doing anything more than just being this player who is doing the little he is doing at this rate. Game by game, its just accumulating for me, the more games I watch of us with him playing I struggle to see why he is in the team because he virtually does nothing that affects the game for us most of the time. Ok he has pace and thats good for our attacking transition but what else does he bring to the team? Maybe he gets in behind teams defensive lines at times (lets be honest any striker/attacker playing in the PL should be capable of this) but its not as if he even makes lots and lots of these runs a game or that he makes chances for others from open play very often when he drifts out wider or does anything else that makes you think you know what I hope he’s playing today because he can add something to the team. 

Should have known an essay-esque reply was coming! 

Okay, he might not be the most brilliant of players but how do you expect Werner to even affect games if we don't play to his strengths? How many times have we seen make the runs forward but isn't spotted with an early pass for example? If you look back and think through the games, how many chances do we even create overall and/or specifically for Werner? It's not as if all the teams we play just sit back and camp in their own box against us by the way. You have games where teams come at us and there's space to exploit and then games where, okay, teams sit back a bit more but there are still moments of transition to exploit, for example. I really wish we have a peak Fabregas in this team instead of Jorginho/Kovacic because I want to see what would have happened.

Werner is part of the attacking problems that we have but how is he made like he's the only one not making chances for others from open play? If you're gonna criticize an attacker for not creating chances from open play, then maybe you should look at someone like Mount instead, someone that @NikkiCFC has constantly ranted about. Werner is not a creative player and yet, he has the most assists in all competitions this season (8 excluding penalties; 11 otherwise), is second on our list for shot creation and first on our list for goal-creating actions (e.g. passes, dribbles, drawing fouls) - both from open play - in the league. He was bought to score goals but somehow, has actually outperformed the supposedly more creative players in the team when it comes to creating chances. 

34 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I mean he set Mount up with a 4 or 5 yard pass v WBA but I mean he could of easily scored that himself. The feint to put the defender down was impressive to be honest but why has he not just let it come across his body or used his instep to guide it in to the right hand side of the goal? Giroud or Abraham would of shot and scored that from Alonso’s ball I think. I mean the defenders there but the GK had left him basically the whole right side of the goal. Fuck half the team would of probably got it in. Says a lot about how confident he is and whilst there is trying to play someone through a slump to try end a goal drought, we are talking 1 PL goal in 20 games slump, 14 games, few performances where you think this guy can do something, scores once, then back to being well pretty much you wouldnt miss him if he wasnt in the team and you dont really notice him when he is. And unfortunately hes not the first striker we have had this happen to either. I mean I dont want to compare him to Torres because thats unfair and not completely accurate but I still dont get why he didn’t shoot from that Alonso ball, look at where the GK was and the amount of space to the keepers left. Its basically 2/3s of the net. All he had to do was get it to the corner. That was Torres-esque. Scared to shoot because hes scared to miss.

I said this in the match thread yesterday, I do not know if he was scared to take the shot or did he make the right, unselfish decision to pass it to Mount because there's a defender and keeper closing him down. You can imagine the headlines if he had gone for the shot and failed to score. That might just destroy him completely, especially after the Macedonia game. A 100% confident Werner would have gone for himself, I suspect, but as it transpired, you could argue that he at least still has the clarity of thought to control the ball and pass it to Mount (the pass wasn't exactly the best either) instead of completely shitting himself in front of goal. 

41 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Strikers having a quiet game or a few a season is understandable or even going through a wee bad spell but strikers having quiet games where you forget their even playing or poor games consistently is not good. Or not scoring in the league in 14 games. Then scoring once and not scoring for another 6 games currently. If thats not worrying or if you can’t see why people are maybe digging him out then I dont know. Its not just yesterdays game. Everyone was poor we all know that. Nobody is going to deny he wasn’t the worst player on the pitch but majority of the other games with Tuchel , which he has started, theres no doubts about it as to why people are questioning his inclusion every week. 

See my points above on this. 

Not going to sit here and say Werner has been brilliant under Tuchel because he hasn't but when he's contributed to goals - be it scoring himself, albeit only one, assisting others or winning penalties - it's hard for Tuchel to really drop him, especially when our attack has hardly been brilliant and we have been winning some games because of those contributions. On top of that, it's not as if the others were playing good in any shape or form to deserve to be in the XI. Havertz, Ziyech, Pulisic were all in their own bad form and had their injury problems to boot. 

49 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I know Tuchel can say he just needs to be patient, he knows how to score, the whole sometimes you give a women space/back off and she will call you thing etc bla bla bla but Giroud and Abraham may as well be playing with the u18s if they seriously cannot convince Tuchel to play them either in tandem or instead of him, it would be near impossible for any of them to come in and do considerably worse than what we have generally gotten from Werner since the end of November bar the odd hopeful moment or two every now and then.

For the most part, think Tuchel has made the right selection to play Werner upfront against certain teams/matches like Liverpool at Anfield or the CL second leg against Atletico Madrid. Abraham or Giroud wouldn't have been able to do what Werner did in those games. So really, apart from such games, Werner was competing with Pulisic, Ziyech etc for one of the left/right positions in the front 3.

I do not know why Tuchel hasn't tried to play Werner and Abraham alongside more upfront considering they seemed to have formed a decent partnership earlier this season and Werner was in goalscoring form back then. But Tuchel doesn't fancy Abraham and on the other hand, let's not also pretend Abraham is a great #9 either. Even you have doubts over him. As for Giroud, if he doesn't score, he really contributes next to nothing. He hardly has assists or any sort of goal and shot creation stats to even back him up. Plus, it's getting obvious that Tuchel prefers someone with mobility, pace, link-up play etc to lead the line, especially when he has gone for Havertz as the False 9 of late.

[Vesper 30,090]

11 hours ago, Jason said:

Should have known an essay-esque reply was coming! 

 

lol, then you write a novella in reply

👁️

[killer1257 3,282]

He had 9 touches in the first half. If that was Tammy playing in the first half with that kind of performance, he would have been subbed off. Tuchel loves Werner so much 😂

[Tomo 21,751]

5 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

He had 9 touches in the first half. If that was Tammy playing in the first half with that kind of performance, he would have been subbed off. Tuchel loves Werner so much 😂

Well every big game win under Tuchel so far Werner has started. So his inclusion is clearly working in these type of games.

[Dan Lee 47]

We should not use him for now. We do have other players that can perform better. Why stick with him?

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

He played better than Kai.....

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Dan Lee said:

We should not use him for now. We do have other players that can perform better. Why stick with him?

Not defending Werner here but who else has performed so outstandingly that they deserve to be in the XI week in week out?

If we want to talk about what each player can do, then we know what Werner can do at his best, we know what Pulisic can do at his best, we know what Ziyech can do at his best and the list goes on. But who exactly right now is even performing to their best of abilities if we're being honest? Some will maybe have 1-2 good games, some will show flashes here and there. That's it. No one is showing the "I SHOULD BE IN THE XI EVERY WEEK" performance.

[Tomo 21,751]

9 minutes ago, Jason said:

Not defending Werner here but who else has performed so outstandingly that they deserve to be in the XI week in week out?

If we want to talk about what each player can do, then we know what Werner can do at his best, we know what Pulisic can do at his best, we know what Ziyech can do at his best and the list goes on. But who exactly right now is even performing to their best of abilities if we're being honest? Some will maybe have 1-2 good games, some will show flashes here and there. That's it. No one is showing the "I SHOULD BE IN THE XI EVERY WEEK" performance.

Maybe I've officially gone mad but I really don't think he's playing that badly. Inexcusable goal drought for sure but he's still been contributing and making key assists (case in point last round Vs Leti).

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Maybe I've officially gone mad but I really don't think he's playing that badly. Inexcusable goal drought for sure but he's still been contributing and making key assists (case in point last round Vs Leti).

Have you not been reading my posts on Werner lately? 🤣