Timo Werner

[Tomo 21,733]

7 minutes ago, Jype said:

I think it's too early to make such claims.

Lukaku started off with a good scoring record (4 goals in his first 4 games for the club) which in my opinion definitely justified picking him for the next few matches as well. In hindsight he might not have been the best option for some of them (especially City) but at the time his selection was definitely made on merit and not because he cost so much and was somehow 'untouchable' because of the price tag.

Then after a few bad games he got injured so we'll never know if he'd have continued starting games regardless of opponent and form. Tuchel is a smart man and I trust him not to pick Lukaku for certain games forever if he doesn't perform in them.

The Villa and Zenit games are actually proof that he needs to score to justify his inclusion. The signs he was comprising the system were there even then, we created little to nothing and in the case of the former match we were battered for the first half (granted Saul was the biggest culprit but still).

My biggest issue is his pressing. I think a manager as clued up as Tuchel can work around his deficiencies going forward (like he did with Werner) but his lack of pressing is a massive massive problem. We are arguably the best side in Europe at it when he doesn't play yet this season pre his injury our pressing stats were near the bottom of the table and at the same level at Spurs, the lifeless Spurs under Nuno. Not only is pressing the first line of defense it's our biggest creative outlet (as we aren't brilliant at breaking down structured teams set in position) so it's simply not sustainable for us to have relegation level pressing stats and if it weren't for Edou we'd have lost likely lost to Villa, Brentford and received an absolute royal hammering by City.

I remember in his first season at City Pep dropped Aguero and told him he'll return once he adapts to his system/demands, given how well we've played without him it's now upto Rom to adapt to us, not the other way round.

[King Kante 1,499]

57 minutes ago, Tomo said:

The Villa and Zenit games are actually proof that he needs to score to justify his inclusion. The signs he was comprising the system were there even then, we created little to nothing and in the case of the former match we were battered for the first half (granted Saul was the biggest culprit but still).

My biggest issue is his pressing. I think a manager as clued up as Tuchel can work around his deficiencies going forward (like he did with Werner) but his lack of pressing is a massive massive problem. We are arguably the best side in Europe at it when he doesn't play yet this season pre his injury our pressing stats were near the bottom of the table and at the same level at Spurs, the lifeless Spurs under Nuno. Not only is pressing the first line of defense it's our biggest creative outlet (as we aren't brilliant at breaking down structured teams set in position) so it's simply not sustainable for us to have relegation level pressing stats and if it weren't for Edou we'd have lost likely lost to Villa, Brentford and received an absolute royal hammering by City.

I remember in his first season at City Pep dropped Aguero and told him he'll return once he adapts to his system/demands, given how well we've played without him it's now upto Rom to adapt to us, not the other way round.

The thing that is most frustrating is that this was all very obvious before we signed him, so why we went out and did it is completely baffling. Lukaku has always been known as a technically limited footballer who does not have much of a work rate when it comes to pressing. What is happening should not be a surprise to anyone as it was obvious this would happen. 

All we can hope for now is that he bangs in enough against the lower quality teams like Watford tonight and is on the bench for the big games. 

[NikkiCFC 8,001]

8 hours ago, Pizy said:

What sucks is that I think wherever he moves he’ll regain form and look good again. 

Him scoring again for fun in Bayern or Dortmund won't tell anything and we will not regret it. Jovic or Michy scored in Bundesliga like crazy so that won't surprised me at all. 

[Jase 43,479]

16 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Matt Law indicated on the London is Blue podcast he could potentially leave in the summer. Dortmund or Bayern main suitors. Ruled out a move to United as he doesn't expect Werner to stay in England. 

But what if we end up with no takers for Werner? I mean, if we want to attract suitors, you would think he would have to do well between now and the end of the season, unless of course the club are willing to take a huge loss on him. And of course, if he does well between now and the end of the season, the conversation would probably not about him leaving etc.

I have mentioned/asked this before and since I haven't gotten any convincing reply on this anywhere, I'll mention/ask again.

Matt Law's speculation with Bayern is that it depends on whether Lewandowski stays but what if he stays? Then what? On the other hand, if he does leave, is there any guarantee that Bayern will come after him? Nagelsmann may like Werner but their sporting director doesn't and turned down the chance to sign him from RB Leipzig. Why would he do it now?

With Dortmund, sure, they may have Werner on their list but are they willing to potentially pay a huge transfer fee and the wages? Maybe @Magic Lamps can shed some light on this but all the recent reports I've seen is that Dortmund are eyeing Karim Adeyemi and Werner supposedly isn't high on their list. If they get Adeyemi or another striker, again, then what? 

[Jase 43,479]

7 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Him scoring again for fun in Bayern or Dortmund won't tell anything and we will not regret it. Jovic or Michy scored in Bundesliga like crazy so that won't surprised me at all. 

Thought you said you don't want to be part of the community? 🤨

[NikkiCFC 8,001]

1 hour ago, Jase said:

Thought you said you don't want to be part of the community? 🤨

You are not that lucky! 

[Jase 43,479]

21 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

You are not that lucky! 

You're the one who said it.

And I can just make it happen at any time. 😏

[Magic Lamps 11,664]

2 hours ago, Jase said:

But what if we end up with no takers for Werner? I mean, if we want to attract suitors, you would think he would have to do well between now and the end of the season, unless of course the club are willing to take a huge loss on him. And of course, if he does well between now and the end of the season, the conversation would probably not about him leaving etc.

I have mentioned/asked this before and since I haven't gotten any convincing reply on this anywhere, I'll mention/ask again.

Matt Law's speculation with Bayern is that it depends on whether Lewandowski stays but what if he stays? Then what? On the other hand, if he does leave, is there any guarantee that Bayern will come after him? Nagelsmann may like Werner but their sporting director doesn't and turned down the chance to sign him from RB Leipzig. Why would he do it now?

With Dortmund, sure, they may have Werner on their list but are they willing to potentially pay a huge transfer fee and the wages? Maybe @Magic Lamps can shed some light on this but all the recent reports I've seen is that Dortmund are eyeing Karim Adeyemi and Werner supposedly isn't high on their list. If they get Adeyemi or another striker, again, then what? 

I can’t see it happening this summer tbh

this is what I learned from transfer rumours here

BVB can afford Werner but as opposed to Haaland they are probably not willing to upend their wage structure for him.( Adeyemi would be a trademark signing and is definitely prioritised. )

Bayern would have fewer problems doing so yet he does not suit their footy at all. But Nagelsmann might be willing to accommodate him. 
Werner wants a move quite desperately. He feels the needs to be the main man again. 

A lot would have to come together for Timo to go back to Bundesliga tho. 

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

BVB can afford Werner

Even if Werner costs say 40 million? Isn't the most they have paid for a player is somewhere around 30 million only?

3 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

Bayern would have fewer problems doing so yet he does not suit their footy at all. But Nagelsmann might be willing to accommodate him. 
Werner wants a move quite desperately. He feels the needs to be the main man again. 

Hansi Flick wanted Werner but didn't get him because of Salihamidzic. Would Nagelsmann have better luck?

And what if Lewandowski stays? Wouldn't Werner just basically be trading the same position for another? 

The irony of wanting to be the main man is that he could be one here if he's just able to score a tad more regularly. 

[NikkiCFC 8,001]

Ok, something positive. 2 goals and 1 assist for Timo. Best outfield player today. Deserves to start against Leeds with Kai and Ziyech.

[OneMoSalah 8,781]

Been waiting for this sort of performance for god knows how long. 2 goals and an assist. If he can do this/more consistently, he may have a long term future here. At present he still has a lot to show for me.

[SomethingSomething 17]

Fans talking shit about Timo is probably the stupidest thing I ever seen in football.

Is he a striker and cant score? Yes. Has awful first touch? Yes.

But for whatever reason, he adds energy, speed, runs in channels, unlocks space and this makes our attack click. Him, Chilly, James and Tuchels defensive system were the key reasons why we were successful last season.

Would have him on the team any time of the day ahead of the likes like Lukaku who just stand and jog around, doing fuck all and provide no energy at all. 

Besides, finishing is a collective problem with all our forwards, not just Timo. We are inconsistent and when fullbacks provide more goals it says it all. Timo, Havertz, Mount, Puli are all at fault we cant put the ball behind the net. Having inform striker in Lukaku, or Lewandowski for that matter wouldnt solve problems. Bayern still has Muller, Sane and Gnabry who provide proper threat and score when given the chance. 

 

[Magic Lamps 11,664]

We have seen that Timo is not one of those strikers who just need that one goal to break the duck to then to go on a scoring streak sky high on confidence. He is a sensitive guy and he will need a lot more good performances and goals to reach his Leipzig form. Still even on form he is a highly frustrating player. You saw this again yesterday. Despite his 2 goals he shot straight at defenders or made bad passing choices quite a few times

still, Leeds are arguably a good side for him to playa against. I just hope he gets a bit more direct passes into space instead of the usual slow ball cycles 

[OneMoSalah 8,781]

18 hours ago, Hermione said:

Needs to get a run of games before we want to call it a day with him, I feel like he is undeservingly being put down he needs to start consistently and get some rhythm, right now he is on and off, there is no way he will do anything without a bit of rhythm, the obligation to play the Lukaku makes things hard for a lot of players.

Is him being “put down” or perhaps criticised is a better word, undeserved though? I mean has he really done enough to justify the money he cost? I mean is it really such an injustice to expect more from a guy who scored 94 goals at RB Leipzig in 4 seasons and looked like a top player? Or to think someone of his reported quality and ability should be able to control a football better or dribble better? Or not be caught offside a lot? 

There are major issues in our club atm in attacking positions when you look at it. A lot of players don’t seem capable of delivering enough and he is 100% one of them. As is Lukaku. I don’t see how anyone can dispute this.

Just because Lukaku has been shite doesn’t mean Timo hasn’t been. He has been pretty awful bar a collection of games and you cannot get away from that. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,314]

Players who are limited on the ball have no place at a club competing for the top honors. 

Unlike Lukaku, I like Werner as a person and wish him the best, but we shouldn't be paying anyone that much when their best attribute is running off the ball. 

[Dan Lee 47]

I think players don't need to justify the money they cost. Whoever recruited them should answer that question. To be fair, it is not his fault on his price tag. Who paid the bills should answer the question. When you go to buy players, you should have in mind what you want to do with them. 

[OneMoSalah 8,781]

17 hours ago, Dan Lee said:

I think players don't need to justify the money they cost. Whoever recruited them should answer that question. To be fair, it is not his fault on his price tag. Who paid the bills should answer the question. When you go to buy players, you should have in mind what you want to do with them. 

Players cost a specific amount based on their ability though.

He didn’t have a 52m release clause for nothing so to not expect more from him and question him taking that price tag into consideration would be wrong.

I mean look at Lukaku who is getting the exact same based on his price tag. Which is mentioned every game/week and rightfully so based on his performances. 

 

[Dan Lee 47]

On 04/03/2022 at 07:25, OneMoSalah said:

Players cost a specific amount based on their ability though.

.........

 

I am a well-known friction writer. People appreciated my skills. A company hires me and pays me a big buck. They told me to write non-friction stories. Nobody likes my new stories. Is it on me?

We have to ask ourselves about Tammy, Giroud, and many more,  etc. Why in different systems, they can be successful but not in Blue? If only Lukaku, we may blame him. We can see that it is not only Lukaku. Strikers are struggling here and if they go somewhere else, they can do better.   

What I mean is that when we buy a player, we should consider whether he can perform in the current system or will we change our system for him. Managers get paid a big buck to make decisions. They should share the same responsibilities.