Coronaviral

[Laylabelle 9,535]

15 hours ago, Vesper said:

They stole supplies. Fuck anti vaxxers. They are a huge reason we have all this shit.

But its a testing centre...nothing to do with vaccines. I know there's the whole stop testing and this will go away thoughts in people's minds. Just protest. Don't be a idiot.

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This is the guy who invented mRNA

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1 hour ago, Laylabelle said:

But its a testing centre...nothing to do with vaccines. I know there's the whole stop testing and this will go away thoughts in people's minds. Just protest. Don't be a idiot.

The chinese will be loving it rubbing their panda paws together for another bulk order of dodgy tests that cant actually differeciate between a flu and rona, tests that have no void so if you pour water on them they show negative and if you use orange juice that turns them positive etc!

The only harm they did was probs to some of their old mates down parliment who are profiting off the tests on all sides of the poli-trick-all spectum

[Vesper 30,186]

1 hour ago, Laylabelle said:

But its a testing centre...nothing to do with vaccines. I know there's the whole stop testing and this will go away thoughts in people's minds. Just protest. Don't be a idiot.

anti-vaxxers want to destroy anything to do with a government response to Covid, including testing sites

these people were all anti-vaxxers

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“If you have to be persuaded, reminded, pressured, lied to, incentivized, coerced, bullied, socially shamed, guilt-tripped, threatened, punished and criminalized ... If all of this is considered necessary to gain your compliance -- you can be absolutely certain that what is being promoted is not in your best interest.” - Ian Watson

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1 hour ago, Warning_Hazard said:

This is the guy who invented mRNA

Of course, you have no rights anymore, you have no freedom of speech, now if they can do this to him, what cant they do to us? You should watch his other vids where he clearly states that the vax is not meant for humans, but that shit got taken down fast after it was uploaded.....

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On 31/12/2021 at 19:29, Atomiswave said:

Of course, you have no rights anymore, you have no freedom of speech, now if they can do this to him, what cant they do to us? You should watch his other vids where he clearly states that the vax is not meant for humans, but that shit got taken down fast after it was uploaded.....

Hopefully more people will do some serious listening and reading to more non partisan experts etc!

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[Atomiswave 6,117]

24 minutes ago, Vesper said:

What top doctors? Their so called experts are in on it, your so called health ministers eat from the same table. Your big pharma dont have a leg to stand on. My own doctor doesnt know whats inside the vax. So so so many doctors and those within medicine have come out in mass and said this is all wrong. The dude that made the PCR test said in his book you cant use PCR to determine what you have or dont have. Those that made mRNA have very clearly mentioned many times that this shit will fuck you up and under any circumstance should not be taken, as the expert in SA said the other day, the world leaders dont listen to us. But hey if you rather sit in front of your tele and eat their narrative up then go ahead, you decide. I for one refuse to trust puppets and criminals. Tony Blair still has a platform to talk, he was fucking knighted. The man is a mass murderer. Do you even know what corona looks like, no you dont, neither do I. We have been shown a CGI image, no pictures or vids how and when they isolated the virus in order to make the vax.

 

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10 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

What top doctors? Their so called experts are in on it, your so called health ministers eat from the same table. Your big pharma dont have a leg to stand on. My own doctor doesnt know whats inside the vax. So so so many doctors and those within medicine have come out in mass and said this is all wrong. The dude that made the PCR test said in his book you cant use PCR to determine what you have or dont have. Those that made mRNA have very clearly mentioned many times that this shit will fuck you up and under any circumstance should not be taken, as the expert in SA said the other day, the world leaders dont listen to us. But hey if you rather sit in front of your tele and eat their narrative up then go ahead, you decide. I for one refuse to trust puppets and criminals. Tony Blair still has a platform to talk, he was fucking knighted. The man is a mass murderer. Do you even know what corona looks like, no you dont, neither do I. We have been shown a CGI image, no pictures or vids how and when they isolated the virus in order to make the vax.

 

You are conflating bankster systemic control theory (which you know I a massive proponent of, so not against you on this) with basic epidemiological science.

Bottom line, almost all of the people dying of Covid now and since it started (obviously pre-December 2020 there were almost no people vaccinated other than ones in trials), and a huge chunk of those in ICU's now and since it started, are unvaxxed.

Not getting fully vaxxed massively increases your chances of serious hospitalisation and/or death, especially if you are 40yo, 50yo and up, and/or have comorbidities.

It really is that simple.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Vesper

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35 minutes ago, Vesper said:

You are conflating bankster systemic control theory (which you know I a massive proponent of, so not against you on this) with basic epidemiological science.

Bottom line, almost all of the people dying of Covid now and since it started (obviously pre-December 2020 there were almost no people vaccinated other than ones in trials), and a huge chunk of those in ICU's now and since it started, are unvaxxed.

Not getting fully vaxxed massively increases your chances of serious hospitalisation and/or death, especially if you are 40yo, 50yo and up, and/or have comorbidities.

It really is that simple.

 What is fully vaxxed anyway? Do you know? I sure dont. Its not good for your body to get shot like that even if the vax was fully legit. Next year this time they will force you to get the 4th and 5th jab......and Im sad to say that a work mate got his third booster last week, after 1 day he lost all his senses, he cant move a muscle.

[Vesper 30,186]

8 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

 What is fully vaxxed anyway? Do you know? I sure dont. Its not good for your body to get shot like that even if the vax was fully legit. Next year this time they will force you to get the 4th and 5th jab......and Im sad to say that a work mate got his third booster last week, after 1 day he lost all his senses, he cant move a muscle.

In terms of prevention of serious hospitalisation and/or death, fully vaxxed atm means 2 jabs.

A booster helps, but (atm, as new Omicron-specific boosters my soon come) other than Moderna (which lasts longer so far), full effects for prevention of transmission (around 80-90% for most in the first 2 months post booster aka 3rd jab) of Omicron (not Delta, Delta transmission prevention still holds up) starts to decline starting around 10 to 12 weeks. All still massively prevent prevent serious hospitalisation and death.

[Atomiswave 6,117]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

In terms of prevention of serious hospitalisation and/or death, fully vaxxed atm means 2 jabs.

A booster helps, but (atm, as new Omicron-specific boosters my soon come) other than Moderna (which lasts longer so far), full effects for prevention of transmission (around 80-90% for most in the first 2 months post booster aka 3rd jab) of Omicron (not Delta, Delta transmission prevention still holds up) starts to decline starting around 10 to 12 weeks. All still massively prevent prevent serious hospitalisation and death.

But Omicron is so weak, please stop eating the narritive Vesper. Omicron is extremely weak as I showed in the vids pages back yet the fearmongering must continue by the media. You said atm 2 jabs, next year its 4 jabs cuz of ultron variant.

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52 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

But Omicron is so weak, please stop eating the narritive Vesper. Omicron is extremely weak as I showed in the vids pages back yet the fearmongering must continue by the media. You said atm 2 jabs, next year its 4 jabs cuz of ultron variant.

it is not just Omicron about there, Delta is still killing off people too, AND if you are unvaxxed you are in much more trouble if you get either

I am not 'eating the narritive' (whatever that means)

It is the basic science

there is NOT some wild conspiracy theory rolling on

it is simply wilful ignorance by many bad actors and their millions of dupes versus basic science

 

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Sceptics Say, ‘Do Your Own Research.’ It’s Not That Simple.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/03/opinion/dyor-do-your-own-research.html

A new slogan has emerged in the culture: “Do your own research.” On internet forums and social media platforms, people arguing about hotly contested topics like vaccines, climate change and voter fraud sometimes bolster their point or challenge their interlocutors by slipping in the acronym “D.Y.O.R.”

“Two days after getting the jab, a friend of mine’s friend had a heart attack,” a Reddit user wrote recently in a discussion about Covid-19 vaccines. “I’m not saying they’re connected, but D.Y.O.R.”

The slogan, which appeared in conspiracy theory circles in the 1990s, has grown in popularity over the past decade as conflicts over the reliability of expert judgment have become more pronounced. It promotes an individualistic, freethinking approach to understanding the world: Don’t be gullible — go and find out for yourself what the truth is.

That may seem to be sound advice. Isn’t it always a good idea to gather more information before making up your mind about a complex topic?

In theory, perhaps. But in practice the idea that people should investigate topics on their own, instinctively skeptical of expert opinion, is often misguided. As psychological studies have repeatedly shown, when it comes to technical and complex issues like climate change and vaccine efficacy, novices who do their own research often end up becoming more misled than informed — the exact opposite of what D.Y.O.R. is supposed to accomplish.

Consider what can happen when people begin to learn about a topic. They may start out appropriately humble, but they can quickly become unreasonably confident after just a small amount of exposure to the subject. Researchers have called this phenomenon the beginner’s bubble.

In a 2018 study, for example, one of us (Professor Dunning) and the psychologist Carmen Sanchez asked people to try their hand at diagnosing certain diseases. (All the diseases in question were fictitious, so no one had any experience diagnosing them.) The participants attempted to determine whether hypothetical patients were healthy or sick, using symptom information that was helpful but imperfect, and they got feedback after every case about whether they were right or wrong. Given the limited nature of the symptom information that was provided, the participants’ judgments ought to have been made with some uncertainty.

How did these would-be doctors fare? At the start, they were appropriately cautious, offering diagnoses without much confidence in their judgments. But after only a handful of correct diagnoses, their confidence shot up drastically — far beyond what their actual rates of accuracy justified. Only later, as they proceeded to make more mistakes, did their confidence level off to a degree more in line with their proficiency.

The study suggested that people place far too much credence in the initial bits of information they encounter when learning something. “A little learning,” as the poet Alexander Pope wrote, “is a dangerous thing.”

Anecdotally, you can see the beginner’s bubble at work outside the laboratory too. Consider do-it-yourself projects gone wrong. Power tools, ladders and lawn mowers are easily mishandled by untrained users who know just enough to put themselves in danger. A study found that U.S. consumer injuries from pneumatic nail guns increased about 200 percent between 1991 and 2005, apparently as a result of the increased availability of nail guns that were affordable for nonprofessionals.

Research also shows that people learning about topics are vulnerable to hubris. Consider a 2015 study by one of us (Professor Dunning) and the psychologists Stav Atir and Emily Rosenzweig. It found that when novices perceive themselves as having developed expertise about topics such as finance and geography, they will frequently claim that they know about nonexistent financial instruments (like “prerated stocks”) and made-up places (like Cashmere, Ore.) when asked about such things.

Likewise, a 2018 study of attitudes about vaccine policy found that when people ascribe authority to themselves about vaccines, they tend to view their own ideas as better than ideas from rival sources and as equal to those of doctors and scientists who have focused on the issue. Their experience makes them less willing to listen to well-informed advisers than they would have been otherwise.

There should be no shame in identifying a consensus of independent experts and deferring to what they collectively report. As individuals, our skills at adequately vetting information are spotty. You can be expert at telling reliable cardiologists from quacks without knowing how to separate serious authorities from pretenders on economic policy.

For D.Y.O.R. enthusiasts, one lesson to take away from all of this might be: Don’t do your own research, because you are probably not competent to do it.

Is that our message? Not necessarily. For one thing, that is precisely the kind of advice that advocates of D.Y.O.R. are primed to reject. In a society where conflicts between so-called elites and their critics are so pronounced, appealing to the superiority of experts can trigger distrust.

The problem is compounded by the fact that outsider critics frequently have legitimate complaints about advice provided by insider authorities. One example might be the initial instruction from public officials at the outset of the Covid-19 pandemic that people need not wear masks.

Instead, our message, in part, is that it’s not enough for experts to have credentials, knowledge and lots of facts. They must show that they are trustworthy and listen seriously to objections from alternative perspectives.

We strive to offer careful guidance when it comes to our own areas of expertise. Even so, some D.Y.O.R. enthusiasts may reject our cautions. If they do, we hope that they will nonetheless heed at least one piece of advice: If you are going to do your own research, the research you should do first is on how best to do your own research.

[Vesper 30,186]

The Vaccine Scientist Spreading Vaccine Misinformation

Robert Malone claims to have invented mRNA technology. Why is he trying so hard to undermine its use?

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/

 

Robert Malone—a medical doctor and an infectious-disease researcher—recently suggested that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines might actually make COVID-19 infections worse. He chuckled as he imagined Anthony Fauci announcing that the vaccination campaign was all a big mistake (“Oh darn, I was wrong!”) and would need to be abandoned. When he floated that nightmare scenario during a recent podcast interview with Steve Bannon, both men seemed almost delighted at the prospect of public-health officials and pharmaceutical companies getting their comeuppance. “This is a catastrophe,” Bannon declared, beaming at his guest. “You’re hearing it from an individual who invented the mRNA [vaccine] and has dedicated his life to vaccines. He’s the opposite of an anti-vaxxer.”

Before going any further, let’s be clear that the back-and-forth between Bannon and Malone was premised on misinformation. The vaccines have repeatedly been shown to help prevent symptomatic coronavirus infections and reduce their severity. Malone was riffing on a botched sentence in a USA Today article, one that was later deleted but not before being screenshotted and widely shared. That kind of overheated, spottily sourced conversation is par for the course on shows like Bannon’s, which traffic in a set of claims that sound depressingly familiar: The vaccines cause more harm than experts are letting on; Fauci is a liar and possibly a fascist; and the mainstream news media is either shamelessly complicit or too stupid to figure out what’s really going on.

In that alternate media universe, Robert Malone’s star is ascendant. He started popping up on podcasts and cable news shows a few months ago, presented as a scientific expert, arguing that the approval process for the vaccines had been unwisely rushed. He told Tucker Carlson that the public doesn’t have enough information to decide whether to get vaccinated. He told Glenn Beck that offering incentives for taking vaccines is unethical. He told Del Bigtree, an anti-vaccine activist who opposes common childhood inoculations, that there hadn’t been sufficient research on how the vaccines might affect women’s reproductive systems. On show after show, Malone, who has quickly amassed more than 200,000 Twitter followers, casts doubt on the safety of the vaccines while decrying what he sees as attempts to censor dissent.

Read: How mRNA technology could change the world

Wherever he appears, Malone is billed as the inventor of mRNA vaccines. It’s in his Twitter bio. “I literally invented mRNA technology when I was 28,” says Malone, who is now 61. If that’s true—or, more to the point, if Malone believes it to be true—then you might expect him to be championing a very different message in his media appearances. According to one recent study, the innovation for which he claims to be responsible has already saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the United States alone; there’s talk that it may soon lead to a round of Nobel Prizes. It’s the kind of validation that few scientists in history have ever received. Yet instead of taking a victory lap, Malone has emerged as one of the most vocal critics of his own alleged accomplishment. He’s sowed doubt about the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines on pretty much any podcast or YouTube channel that will have him.

Why is the self-described inventor of the mRNA vaccines working so hard to undermine them?

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Whether Malone really came up with mRNA vaccines is a question probably best left to Swedish prize committees, but you could make a case for his involvement.  When I called Malone at his 50-acre horse farm in Virginia, he directed me to a 6,000-word essay written by his wife, Jill, that lays out why he believes himself to be the primary discoverer. “This is a story about academic and commercial avarice,” it begins. The document’s tone is pointed, and at times lapses into all-caps fury. She frames her husband as a genius scientist who is “largely unknown by the scientific establishment because of abuses by individuals to secure their own place in the history books.”

The abridged version is that when Malone was a graduate student in biology in the late 1980s at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies, he injected genetic material—DNA and RNA—into the cells of mice in hopes of creating a new kind of vaccine. He was the first author on a 1989 paper demonstrating how RNA could be delivered into cells using lipids, which are basically tiny globules of fat, and a co-author on a 1990 Science paper showing that if you inject pure RNA or DNA into mouse muscle cells, it can lead to the transcription of new proteins. If the same approach worked for human cells, the latter paper said in its conclusion, this technology “may provide alternative approaches to vaccine development.”

These two studies do indeed represent seminal work in the field of gene transfer, according to Rein Verbeke, a postdoctoral fellow at Ghent University, in Belgium, and the lead author of a 2019 history of mRNA-vaccine development. (Indeed, Malone’s studies are the first two references in Verbeke’s paper, out of 224 in total.) Verbeke told me he believes that Malone and his co-authors “sparked for the first time the hope that mRNA could have potential as a new drug class,” though he also notes that “the achievement of the mRNA vaccines of today is the accomplishment of a lot of collaborative efforts.”

Read: The pandemic’s wrongest man

Malone says he deserves credit for more than just sparking hope. He dropped out of graduate school in 1988, just short of his Ph.D., and went to work at a pharmaceutical company called Vical. Now he claims that both the Salk Institute and Vical profited from his work and essentially prevented him from further pursuing his research. (A Salk Institute spokesperson said that nothing in the institute’s records substantiates Malone’s allegations. The biotech company into which Vical was merged, Brickell, did not respond to requests for comment.) To say that Malone remains bitter over this perceived mistreatment doesn’t do justice to his sense of aggrievement. He calls what happened to him “intellectual rape.”

One target of Malone’s ire, the biochemist Katalin Karikó, has been featured in multiple news stories as an mRNA-vaccine pioneer. CNN called her work “the basis of the Covid-19 vaccine” while a New York Times headline said she had “helped shield the world from the coronavirus.” None of those stories mentioned Malone. “I’ve been written out of the history,” he has said. “It’s all about Kati.” Karikó shared with me an email that Malone sent her in June, accusing her of feeding reporters bogus information and inflating her own accomplishments. “This is not going to end well,” Malone’s message says.

Karikó replied that she hadn’t told anyone that she is the inventor of mRNA vaccines and that “many many scientists” contributed to their success. “I have never claimed more than discovering a way to make RNA less inflammatory,” she wrote to him. She told me that Malone referred to himself in an email as her “mentor” and “coach,” though she says they’ve met in person only once, in 1997, when he invited her to give a talk. It’s Malone, according to Karikó, who has been overstating his accomplishments. There are “hundreds of scientists who contributed more to mRNA vaccines than he did.”

Malone insists that his warning to Karikó that “this is not going to end well” was not intended as a threat. Instead, he says, he was suggesting that her exaggerations would soon be exposed. Malone views Karikó as yet another scientist standing on his shoulders and collecting plaudits that should go to him. Others have been rewarded handsomely for their work on mRNA vaccines, he says. (Karikó is a senior vice president at BioNTech, which partnered with Pfizer to create the first COVID-19 vaccine to be authorized for use last year.) Malone is not exactly living on the streets: In addition to being a medical doctor, he has served as a vaccine consultant for pharmaceutical companies.

In any case, it’s clear enough that Malone isn’t singularly responsible for mRNA vaccines. The process of achieving major scientific advancements tends to be more cumulative and complex than the apple-to-the-head stories we usually tell, but this much can be said for sure: Malone was involved in groundbreaking work related to mRNA vaccines before it was cool or profitable; and he and others who believed in the potential of RNA-based vaccines in the 1980s turned out to be world-savingly correct.

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Malone may keep company with vaccine skeptics, but he insists he is not one himself. His objections to the Pfizer and Moderna shots have to do mostly with their expedited approval process and with the government’s system for tracking adverse reactions. Speaking as a doctor, he would probably recommend their use only for those at highest risk from COVID-19. Everyone else should be wary, he told me, and those under 18 should be excluded entirely. (A June 23 statement from more than a dozen public-health organizations and agencies strongly encouraged all eligible people 12 and older to get vaccinated, because the benefits “far outweigh any harm.”) Malone is also frustrated that, as he sees it, complaints about side effects are being ignored or censored in the nationwide push to increase vaccination rates.

You might very well walk away with the skewed sense, after hearing Malone speak or reading his posts, that there is a far-reaching COVID-19 cover-up and that the real threat is the vaccine rather than the virus. I’ve listened to hours of Malone’s interviews and read through the many pages of documents he’s posted. He is a knowledgeable scientist with a knack for lucid explanation. It doesn’t hurt that he looks the part with his neatly trimmed white beard, or that he has a voice that would be well suited for a meditation app. Malone is not a subscriber to the more out-there conspiracy theories regarding COVID-19 vaccines—he doesn’t, for instance, think Bill Gates has snuck microchips into syringes—and he sometimes pushes back gently when hosts like Bigtree or Beck drift into more ludicrous territory.

And yet he does routinely slip into speculation that turns out to be misleading or, as in the segment on Bannon’s show, plainly false. For instance, he recently tweeted that, according to an unnamed “Israeli scientist,” Pfizer and the Israeli government have an agreement not to release information about adverse effects for 10 years, which is hard to believe given that the country’s health ministry has already warned of a link between the Pfizer shot and rare cases of myocarditis. Malone’s LinkedIn account has twice been suspended for supposedly spreading misinformation.

Read: The mRNA vaccines are extraordinary, but Novavax is even better

His concerns are personal, too. Malone contracted COVID-19 in February 2020, and later got the Moderna vaccine in hopes that it would alleviate his long-haul symptoms. Now he believes the injections made his symptoms worse: He still has a cough and is dealing with hypertension and reduced stamina, among other maladies. “My body will never be the same,” he told me. In media appearances, he often notes that he has colleagues in the government and at universities who agree with him and are privately cheering him on. I spoke with several of these people—vaccine scientists and biotech consultants, suggested by Malone himself— and that is not what they told me. The portrait they paint of Malone is of an insightful researcher who can be headstrong. They related accounts of him, pre-pandemic, getting booted from projects because he was hard to communicate with and unwilling to compromise. (Malone has acknowledged his penchant for butting heads with fellow scientists.) And they are taken aback by his emergence as a vaccine skeptic. One called his eagerness to appear on less-than-reputable podcasts “naive,” while another said he thought Malone’s public rhetoric had “migrated from extrapolated assertions to sensational assertions.” Stan Gromkowski, a cellular immunologist who did work on mRNA vaccines in the early 1990s and views Malone as an underappreciated pioneer,  put it this way: “He’s fucking up his chances for a Nobel Prize.”

It’s only in the curious world of fringe media that Malone has found the platform, and the recognition, he’s sought for so long. He talks to hosts who aren’t going to question whether he’s the brains behind the Pfizer and Moderna shots. They’re not going to quibble over whether credit should be shared with co-authors, or talk about how science is like a relay race, or point out that, absent the hard work of brilliant researchers who came before and after Malone, there would be no vaccine. He’s an upgrade over their typical guest list of chiropractors and naturopaths, and they’re perfectly happy to address him by the title he believes he’s earned: inventor of the mRNA vaccines.

The irony is that, to the audiences who tune in to those shows, the vaccines are seen as a scourge rather than a godsend. No matter how nuanced Malone might try to be, or how many qualifiers he appends to his opinions, he is egging on vaccine hesitancy at a time when hospitals in the least-vaccinated parts of the country are struggling to cope with an influx of new COVID-19 patients. If you want proof of that, scroll through the many comments from his followers thanking him for confirming their fears. Malone has finally made his mark, by undermining confidence in the very vaccine he says wouldn’t be possible without his genius. It’s a victory, of sorts, but one that he and the rest of us may come to regret.

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This thread needs more factual evidence not opinions, The science is all over the shop so the only thing we can rely on is the PHE figures and the like however manipulated they may be!

the pill stuff theyre trying to shift in recent trials showed 30% effectivness, triple jabbed showed 70% waining after 10 weeks. those are verified trials etc.

People should be suspicious why the inventor of this type of treatment has been utterly ruined by the media.

It's getting to the point where this is like a religion, Just like dividing the people by making it political.

Most of the brilliant men and women always get shat on

Einstien was bullied and ridiculed when he worked out all sorts, Same for picasso etc etc etc

Back in the day doctors would subscribe you a pack of fags!

 

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