🇮🇹 Jorginho

[Jase 43,479]

24 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Against any opposition of real note (especially away) Mou drafted Rami in and made it 433.

Or move him to the #10 role, with 2 defensive midfielders behind me.

[Blue Armour 4,442]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

Precisely. He has shown that he can play those defence splitting passes, accurate over the top passes etc but chooses not to most of the time. Decides to pass it sideways/backwards, giving opponents chance to get back into their shape and making it harder to break through them. Moreover, if Jorginho really is good at controlling the tempo, we wouldn't be having so many basketball-esque games. Couple that frustrating aspect of his game with his defensive side of the game, it's so painful to watch. For example in the game against Sheffield United, there were a number of times he was robbed off the ball so easily and then didn't have the pace or physicality to win it back. IIRC, Mikel used to get the same criticism with his passing but at the very least, he had a defensive presence about him, even if he might be a different player. Jorginho's passing is mostly unambitious and doesn't have any defensive presence about him. 

Yep, we expected him to be like Mikel but with better, quicker passing. Now we have someone with Mikel like passing, but with none of the defensive nous.

[Clockwork 1,794]

Chelsea are unbeaten in the last 18 games when Jorginho has started. 
 

Honestly it is incredible how Chelsea fans constantly moan and bitch about him when he hardly even featured during a terrible stretch that ultimately got Lampard fired.

[Jase 43,479]

4 hours ago, Clockwork said:

Chelsea are unbeaten in the last 18 games when Jorginho has started. 

People are really clutching at straws when this specific stat is used to defend a player.

4 hours ago, Clockwork said:

Honestly it is incredible how Chelsea fans constantly moan and bitch about him when he hardly even featured during a terrible stretch that ultimately got Lampard fired.

So, you're saying that Jorginho could have been THE player to save Lampard's job? 🤨 He's been at the club for 2 1/2 years and the fact that we're still having arguments over his use says a lot. 

[manpe 10,861]

40 minutes ago, Jason said:

People are really clutching at straws when this specific stat is used to defend a player.

Why? I think it was the Liverpool game back in September that we last lost with him starting? If so, that's impressive. If he was as bad as he's made out to be, then surely he would have cost us at least on game in 18?

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, manpe said:

Why? I think it was the Liverpool game back in September that we last lost with him starting? If so, that's impressive. If he was as bad as he's made out to be, then surely he would have cost us at least on game in 18?

Because it's selective? Because it doesn't tell the whole story? This is like when people were using the 18-game unbeaten run earlier run this season to defend Lampard and as a reason to not sack him.

Plus, it's not as if Jorginho just joined us last summer and has been our lucky charm. He's been here for 2.5 years and we have lost games with him starting. Would we have not lost had he started against say Man City or Leicester? He might not be directly responsible for the goals conceded etc had he started but he would still be part of a team that lost. What happens when we eventually lose games with him starting under Tuchel? Then what? What stat are people gonna use then?

If people want to defend Jorginho, by all means, go ahead but using the stat of us being unbeaten in his last 18 starts isn't convincing at all. 

[manpe 10,861]

8 minutes ago, Jason said:

Because it's selective? Because it doesn't tell the whole story? This is like when people were using the 18-game unbeaten run earlier run this season to defend Lampard and as a reason to not sack him.

Plus, it's not as if Jorginho just joined us last summer and has been our lucky charm. He's been here for 2.5 years and we have lost games with him starting. Would we have not lost had he started against say Man City or Leicester? He might not be directly responsible for the goals conceded etc had he started but he would still be part of a team that lost. What happens when we eventually lose games with him starting under Tuchel? Then what? What stat are people gonna use then?

If people want to defend Jorginho, by all means, go ahead but using the stat of us being unbeaten in his last 18 starts isn't convincing at all. 

Of course it doesn't tell the whole story, I generally don't care about stats much except ones that matter. I'm not a fan of his, would rather have someone more mobile and more adventurous in forward passing. But it does tell that he's not as bad as he's portrayed by many fans, you would think he's Bakayoko level hopeless reading some of the stuff on the internet... well if he was, we would have lost much more.

Edited February 19, 2021 by manpe

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, manpe said:

Of course it doesn't tell the whole story, I generally don't care about stats much except ones that matter. I'm not a fan of his, would rather have someone more mobile and more adventurous in forward passing. But it does tell that he's not as bad as he's portrayed by many fans, you would think he's Bakayoko level hopeless reading some of the stuff on the internet... well if he was, we would have lost much more.

Well sure. If you look at just this season, then stats do look great but less so if you look at the overall stats since he's been here. I don't see what Jorginho has done this season, whenever he's played, that is different from past seasons. 

[Jase 43,479]

Our top scorers in the league this season:

Abraham - 6 goals (all non-penalties)

Jorginho - 6 goals (all penalties!)

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

19 minutes ago, Jason said:

Our top scorers in the league this season:

Abraham - 6 goals (all non-penalties)

Jorginho - 6 goals (all penalties!)

After 28 games! Crazy stat. 

I think Willian last season did better than all our attacking players this season. 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

After 28 games! Crazy stat. 

I think Willian last season did better than all our attacking players this season. 

our top scorer in all comps is Tammy with 12 in just 1500mins, second Oli with 11 in 1100 mins.

Maybe we would score more if we fielded a proper striker instead of werner every game but then again both do not offer much except goals.

[Azul 1,615]

The turn around season this guy is having is unreal. I'll be honest, I didn't rate him at all before Tuchel came, however he has been our most important midfielder. He dictates the tempo, which is very important in Tuchel's system.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

Honestly I still do not rate him. He is just so limited. Maybe i am spoiled having started watching football in the era of the ultimate midfield generals who could do everything Jorginho does with their little toe. But how does a player live on just being able to read the game and execute short passes? i think we would be so much better if we had a proper all-round midfielder in his place.

[Fernando 6,585]

20 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Honestly I still do not rate him. He is just so limited. Maybe i am spoiled having started watching football in the era of the ultimate midfield generals who could do everything Jorginho does with their little toe. But how does a player live on just being able to read the game and execute short passes? i think we would be so much better if we had a proper all-round midfielder in his place.

And who you think that would be? 

I love modric and that is what we need, a similar type of player. But I don't know who is in that mold. 

[Jase 43,479]

2 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

our top scorer in all comps is Tammy with 12 in just 1500mins, second Oli with 11 in 1100 mins.

Maybe we would score more if we fielded a proper striker instead of werner every game but then again both do not offer much except goals.

Is Werner even competing with Abraham and Giroud for the striker position?

He can play there but we know he's not a classic #9 and now we have Havertz playing as the False 9. So, go figure.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

12 hours ago, Fernando said:

And who you think that would be? 

I love modric and that is what we need, a similar type of player. But I don't know who is in that mold. 

Rice, Locatelli, Camavinga or Zakaria. they can do what Jorginho does and some.

 

[killer1257 3,282]

1 minute ago, Magic Lamps said:

Rice, Locatelli, Camavinga or Zakaria. they can do what Jorginho does and some.

 

Neither Rice nor Zakaria are creative masterminds either like Modric for instance. If he want a Modric type of player, there is only Veratti I can think of that plays on a high level and has, similar creative output. Rice is solid though. Sadly, the level of creative masterminds is decreasing. Sometimes I think Billy and Lewis Bate are more creative than most players lol 

[Jase 43,479]

BRING BACK MIKEL! 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

4 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Neither Rice nor Zakaria are creative masterminds either like Modric for instance. If he want a Modric type of player, there is only Veratti I can think of that plays on a high level and has, similar creative output. Rice is solid though. Sadly, the level of creative masterminds is decreasing. Sometimes I think Billy and Lewis Bate are more creative than most players lol 

I did not want a Modric type in the first place but someone wha can roam box to box, hold his position if needed and protect the backline and break the midfield line with passes or dribblings. both, rice and zakaria can do this. a Modric/verrati type would be too similar to kovacic and leave us physically even more exposed.

I have not seen much of Bate, but Billy is the closest thing to Modric we have I guess

[Fernando 6,585]

6 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

I did not want a Modric type in the first place but someone wha can roam box to box, hold his position if needed and protect the backline and break the midfield line with passes or dribblings. both, rice and zakaria can do this. a Modric/verrati type would be too similar to kovacic and leave us physically even more exposed.

I have not seen much of Bate, but Billy is the closest thing to Modric we have I guess

We need a Modric type of player for when teams park the bus. I agree with Veratti, that would be the dream signing for me even though he is 28. 

And I have been thinking a lot about Billy as this type of player. We won't know unless Tuchel gives him time and see if he can do what Andrea is doing....altough Andreas has been here a while and is more mature. Billy is just starting with us.