Marcos Alonso

[robsblubot 3,228]

1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

They are a bunch of fans who feel entitled to have the best players in the world. No doubt they see Alonso's goal scoring record comparable to Ramos, and want him. Not even rationing the idea of his actual defensive ability 

Heh If he’s going to replace Marcelo, don’t think he will need to defend at all.

btw, we don’t know how the next manager will play (here or there). We might go back to 3 in the back, which might be a better choice considering we have no fullback in the roster.

[MoroccanBlue 5,200]

6 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Heh If he’s going to replace Marcelo, don’t think he will need to defend at all.

btw, we don’t know how the next manager will play (here or there). We might go back to 3 in the back, which might be a better choice considering we have no fullback in the roster.

Already assuming Sarri gets the sack?

[robsblubot 3,228]

7 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Already assuming Sarri gets the sack?

Yes, can’t imagine him being around next season. Player power and they are not playing for him.

thats why I think squad discussions are premature esp around the ban.

[MoroccanBlue 5,200]

18 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Yes, can’t imagine him being around next season. Player power and they are not playing for him.

thats why I think squad discussions are premature esp around the ban.

I'd personally be worried if the club will allow player power to rid of yet another manager. 

[Jase 43,479]

46 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

I'd personally be worried if the club will allow player power to rid of yet another manager. 

Why does the player power factor have to be "used" every time a manager gets sacked? Why can't a manager gets sacked simply because he was just bad at his job? 

[Vesper 27,338]

3 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

They are a bunch of fans who feel entitled to have the best players in the world. No doubt they see Alonso's goal scoring record comparable to Ramos, and want him. Not even rationing the idea of his actual defensive ability 

His goal scoring record as a traditional fullback is pure shit

subtract out 2016-18, when he was a wingback

and he has 10 top flight goals in around 17,000 total minutes, all comps in his career, and I am sure some of those minutes were as a wingback too

that is one goal ever 1700 minutes, or to put it another way, one goal every 19 full games

many of those against shit teams

this year he has 1 league goal and one goal in the EL, (versus the horrifically shit Dynamo Kiev) in 3000 plus minutes

almost all his his assists came from beginning of August 2018 to September 1st, 2018, plus one on November 4th, 2018 v Palace

He has ZERO league assists since then, in over 4 and a half months

he has the worst accurate crossing percentage of any full-time player with 50 or more crosses in Europe's Big Five leagues, at around 9.9% (even the inept Moses, for comparison, had 21%)

he is also basically worthless on defence, as even 32yo, 33yo wingers and forwards can ofttimes blow past him due to his insane lack of pace

he offers nothing of value to a back 4 team trying to win trophies and/or at least qualify for the CL

 

 

 

Here is an article that should destroy all credibility of those pushing for Alonso over even Emerson (who isn't even a great player at all) especially this ridiculous notion I see the Alonso fanboys/girls toss out that Emerson is so much worse at defence, which is just ridiculous

AND it even analyses Alonso in on of his two great wingback years and Emerson still trumps him in most categories

How do Chelsea’s Marcos Alonso and Emerson Palmieri compare statistically?'

https://footballbh.net/2019/03/06/marcos-alonso-emerson-palmieri-chelsea-tactical-analysis-statistics/

snip

Conclusion

As is evident from the statistics and the tactical analysis, Palmieri beats Alonso in almost all metrics. That is not to say that Palmieri is one of the best left-backs, but his services greatly improve Chelsea’s attempt at transitioning and reforming under Sarri. It seems like the fans are right, once again. With the danger of slipping outside of the top four breathing down his neck, Sarri needs to churn out wins. Anything else will guarantee that Chelsea do not play in the Champions League next season.

With both Arsenal and United picking up steam, Chelsea need to be pitch-perfect. For any club, the fans are the ones who stand by it and help it. They determine the resilience and identity of the club. With a crucial time ahead for Chelsea, the fans are standing strong and helping. For a club which has consistently overlooked its fans, its’ time that it listens to its fans’ voice. Now, more than ever, Chelsea and Sarri need to listen through the noise and pick out the signal.

 

snip

 

When Sarri gets the sack

the 2 main frauds, Alonso and Jorginho plus his fucking over CHO (especially IF he leaves) can be written on his tombstone of blue

fucking fraud of a manager

another board wonder-blunder

[robsblubot 3,228]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

Why does the player power factor have to be "used" every time a manager gets sacked? Why can't a manager gets sacked simply because he was just bad at his job? 

Because it’s recurring with this club...

Not mutually exclusive: he may be a bad manager and the players exert too much power.to your point, while the players may not believe in the manager, it’s also the managers job to sell his ideas to the players.

regarding the post above, football would be a far less interesting game to me if formation and tactics were that static.

while I agree that alonso is poor at defending — sample on Emerson is still small — the only one forcing him to defend is the current manager.

a better manager would either produce a system in which Alonso does not have to defend, change formation, or play a better defender.

[MoroccanBlue 5,200]

29 minutes ago, Jason said:

Why does the player power factor have to be "used" every time a manager gets sacked? Why can't a manager gets sacked simply because he was just bad at his job? 

Player power + Board incompetence is what has led this club to absolute mediocrity.

We are on course for to miss out on Champions League football for the 3rd time in 4 years, despite being one of the highest spenders in world football. That is utterly embarrassing. It's been 3 years, and the fact Alonso is still our starting LB, Pedro and Willian have still not been upgraded on, and no top striker, are the main factors as to why we do so poor in the league.The fact the club prefers them over elite coaches, perfectly reflects our league position. 

 

 

 

[Unionjack 7,531]

8 minutes ago, Robchels said:

a better manager would either produce a system in which Alonso does not have to defend,

Bit bloody hard seeing that his job is a defender mate!!

 

9 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Not mutually exclusive: he may be a bad manager and the players exert too much power.to your point, while the players may not believe in the manager, it’s also the managers job to sell his ideas to the players.

This has happened to our last 2 managers also.

Were they weak?

It is a reourring thing with this group of players - a lot who were chosen by our previous 2 managers.

The players play shit with no soul,fight or spirit but the manager takes it up the arse1

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, MoroccanBlue said:

Player power + Board incompetence is what has led this club to absolute mediocrity.

We are on course for to miss out on Champions League football for the 3rd time in 4 years, despite being one of the highest spenders in world football. That is utterly embarrassing. It's been 3 years, and the fact Alonso is still our starting LB, Pedro and Willian have still not been upgraded on, and no top striker, are the main factors as to why we do so poor in the league.The fact the club prefers them over elite coaches, perfectly reflects our league position. 

I agree we have issues with players and the board but it shouldn't deflect the fact that the manager is doing a rubbish job. We either have manager who leads us to success early before going rogue or have a manager who is just crap.

You said the board prefer the players over elite coaches, which I agree on the basis that they give dumb contract extensions, but let's not forget that the manager can make a statement with those you mentioned by not picking them but they do not. Mourinho/Conte, for example, kept picking Willian and made him integral to their teams. Sarri kept picking Alonso, at least until recently, and made him feel important to the team (even said he's one of the best LBs in the world!). So rather than just blaming the board, you should also question why the manager keep on making these poor quality players important in his team. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,200]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

I agree we have issues with players and the board but it shouldn't deflect the fact that the manager is doing a rubbish job. We either have manager who leads us to success early before going rogue or have a manager who is just crap.

You said the board prefer the players over elite coaches, which I agree on the basis that they give dumb contract extensions, but let's not forget that the manager can make a statement with those you mentioned by not picking them but they do not. Mourinho/Conte, for example, kept picking Willian and made him integral to their teams. Sarri kept picking Alonso, at least until recently, and made him feel important to the team (even said he's one of the best LBs in the world!). So rather than just blaming the board, you should also question why the manager keep on making these poor quality players important in his team. 

Do you think we have a better squad than United or Spurs? I for sure don't. 

I think our league position perfectly reflects the quality we have. That's the difference. If we were doing poorly with a capable squad, then I would be all for Sarri's sacking. Issue is, I see no quality with our attack bar Hazard. A midfield with no end product. Two poor fullbacks and an unreliable defence. You are essentially asking Sarri to create a silk purse out of sow's ear. Ian Wright said it best. Without Hazard, we are a poor team. 

Make no mistake. Him continuing to pick Alonso and continuing to bench Odoi has me fuming just as much as you. But that is not enough to warrant a sack for me. The first 30 minutes against Everton, I saw Sarri's style and it was clear as day that if we had better technical players, we would be getting better results. Only issue is whether or not the board will back him. 

 

[robsblubot 3,228]

10 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

Bit bloody hard seeing that his job is a defender mate!!

disagree. A fullback is only a defender in very specific systems and formations: say in the very English and outdated 2-lines 442/4411.

real won everything with the worst defender as a left back. Half the fbs listed here as options are attacking ones like telles.

attacking fbs are not a new thing.

I cannot go past the manager on this one: Seen about 10 different successful systems with 4 in the back and one very attacking fullback. Never w/ 2 attacking fullbacks tho.

he plays Alonso and relies on him to defend: his own fault

 

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, MoroccanBlue said:

Do you think we have a better squad than United or Spurs? I for sure don't. 

I think our league position perfectly reflects the quality we have. That's the difference. If we were doing poorly with a capable squad, then I would be all for Sarri's sacking. Issue is, I see no quality with our attack bar Hazard. A midfield with no end product. Two poor fullbacks and an unreliable defence. You are essentially asking Sarri to create a silk purse out of sow's ear. 

Thing is this the second season in a row where we were sitting comfortably in the top 4 until December but come January, we slipped down the hill. Our squad ain't Man City or Liverpool level but it's still decent enough to finish in the top 4 if we have a manager who puts them in a system that gets the best out of them.

2 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Make no mistake. Him continuing to pick Alonso and continuing to bench Odoi has me fuming just as much as you. But that is not enough to warrant a sack for me. The first 30 minutes against Everton, I saw Sarri's style and it was clear as day that if we had better technical players, we would be getting better results. Only issue is whether or not the board will back him. 

How much of that performance was down to us being good and the opposition being bad? Because we've always looked this season when our opponents are just bad but we've always struggled when we play at least a half decent opposition. The minute Everton turned up in that second half, we just became shit and had no response. 

[Unionjack 7,531]

5 minutes ago, Robchels said:

 A fullback is only a defender in very specific systems and formations

Doesn't give Dave too much to do then eh.

i totally agree about picking the cunt in the first place. Thats 1 of the 3 things that pisses me off about Sarri.

But Alonso doesn't have even the basics down right now. How often does he get a cross past the 1st closest to him? How often does he take it to the baseline?

@MoroccanBlue is dead right what he says. The system of Sarris CAN work and has but this bunch of gutless wet farts lack both the character and the abilities needed to play it.

[robsblubot 3,228]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Thing is this the second season in a row where we were sitting comfortably in the top 4 until December but come January, we slipped down the hill. Our squad ain't Man City or Liverpool level but it's still decent enough to finish in the top 4 if we have a manager who puts them in a system that gets the best out of them.

How much of that performance was down to us being good and the opposition being bad? Because we've always looked this season when our opponents are just bad but we've always struggled when we play at least a half decent opposition. The minute Everton turned up in that second half, we just became shit and had no response. 

the system Sarri is trying to implement relies on possession to defend. This is the same as Guardiola. That's why he has Jorginho as a DLP as opposed to a DM. It's a different way of thinking about defending.

Now to your point, as soon as Everton started pressing our passing went down the drain. And you still need all of our players pressing the opposition when we don't have the ball... Eden does not do that at all, and others not enough...

[MoroccanBlue 5,200]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Thing is this the second season in a row where we were sitting comfortably in the top 4 until December but come January, we slipped down the hill. Our squad ain't Man City or Liverpool level but it's still decent enough to finish in the top 4 if we have a manager who puts them in a system that gets the best out of them.

Well wouldn't that be down to our player's mentality then?  When you have players complaining about how tactical and strict Conte/Sarri are in training, yet just a few weeks ago Sterling worshiped the fact Pep is so demanding and strategic with them, kinda reflects perfectly on the difference of situations between the both of us. 

8 minutes ago, Jason said:

How much of that performance was down to us being good and the opposition being bad? Because we've always looked this season when our opponents are just bad but we've always struggled when we play at least a half decent opposition. The minute Everton turned up in that second half, we just became shit and had no response. 

I seem to recall us moving the ball much quicker and creating loads of chances in the third, just zero penetration. 

Another thing I've noticed this season is how quickly we can just switch off. We can show urgency and focus, then the next thing you know, we are one individual mistake from total capitulation. Alonso always being a culprit. No movement. Poor decision making. Poor defending. Poor performance. I would've been more harsh on Sarri given Alonso shouldn't of started, but we should of been 2 or 3 nil up by halftime. 

[robsblubot 3,228]

11 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

Doesn't give Dave too much to do then eh.

i totally agree about picking the cunt in the first place. Thats 1 of the 3 things that pisses me off about Sarri.

But Alonso doesn't have even the basics down right now. How often does he get a cross past the 1st closest to him? How often does he take it to the baseline?

@MoroccanBlue is dead right what he says. The system of Sarris CAN work and has but this bunch of gutless wet farts lack both the character and the abilities needed to play it.

The systems I know that worked well, with 4 in the back and attacking FBs,  seamlessly switched between 4 and 3 in the back. So, Alonso or another attacking FB would not have to drop back that much -- possibly improving his attacking output -- while Azpi would not have to go up much, prob also improving his defense (less useless running). That's why Azpi did better as a 3rd CB... same with alonso as a wingback.

There is also an option of adding DMs for cover, but it limits the midfield.

I'm sure his system can work, but not sure with the players at his disposal.

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, Robchels said:

the system Sarri is trying to implement relies on possession to defend. This is the same as Guardiola. That's why he has Jorginho as a DLP as opposed to a DM. It's a different way of thinking about defending.

Now to your point, as soon as Everton started pressing our passing went down the drain. And you still need all of our players pressing the opposition when we don't have the ball... Eden does not do that at all, and others not enough...

And that's why people were screaming for Sarri to adapt, to make tactical tweaks, to compromise in order to try and get the best out of this side.