Marcos Alonso

[manpe 10,855]

average PLAYERS, not average manager
LOL
I so so so so DO NOT WANT HIM OUT AT ALL, lol
no clue where you get that takeaway
I am patient with managers, more so than players
I just think he did what he perceived to be the right thing with starters and bench decision in last 2 games and it failed
we all make mistakes, so hopefully he just moves on and doesn't double down
I am ENTIRELY bought into his system
why else do you think i want those I listed out?
they do not fit into IT
or are simply not good enough, or are damaged goods

Ok if you were talking about players, I thought we were talking about Sarri. Anyway I'm very high, good night!

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Vesper 27,329]

1 minute ago, manpe said:

Ok if you were talking about players, I thought we were talking about Sarri. Anyway I'm very high, good night!

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk
 

Lolol, hell no, I  would never call Sarri average, even if he fails here, as he has a unique vision that can deffo work, IF Roman and the asshole board backs him with the right players and does things in a truly proper future-forward intelligent manner.

[blues.bridge 340]

18 minutes ago, Vesper said:

great post, and yes, I can maybe see getting £50,55m, the £40m number was my bare minimum (mainly due to his age, as there are only TWO WC LB'S over 28 in the world, Marcelo and Alba. Marcos turns 28 in December, so IF RM bought him next summer, they only get less than a year and half out of him until he turns 30. Then again, he was never a speedburner, so I could see him basically the same player for the next 3, 4 or maybe even 5 years with only a slight drop off. 

Emerson is now into the possible perma damage category. IF he recovers to Roma pre-injury form, he can be our starting LB. If he is a Zouma case, we gotta let him go.

Fabregas is not one of the sell NOW NOW NOW ones, he could hang on for 2 years or so (remember I said those 21 could obviously not be sold all in one window or a window and half)

I will only list (the sell prices) I disagree with

Luiz: £25B       £30m (its what PSG offered and we turned it down)
Tiémoué Bakayoko  £30B         £35m and done
Gary Cahill £10B          I would go for £15m, he is English so a 50% premium in EPL
Davide Zappacosta  £15B     £20-25m, to a Serie A club, they are desperate for Italian players
Danny Drinkwater  £15B           £30m, he is only 28 and English, and a great player for a West Ham type club 
Victor Moses £20B   £25m
Baba Rahman £10B   I want to give him a shot at finally playing LB (probably as a backup) for us, if he has to be sold, then £15m
Kenedy £10B            £15-20m
 Kurt Zouma £15B                  £25m at least, he is young and still pretty decent and counts as HG
Charly Musonda £5B            £10m or so, young and could help some teams
 Michy Batshuayi £40B     same as Baba, I really want to see if he could be our striker,  if not, you are close, I say £40-45m

 

I won't list my wanted team here

 

the board is full of my desired teams

 

again, good post

maybe in jenuary we can try to put some deal with united and mourinho!
like take martial and  give Willian £65B and cahill.
for jenuary market:
sell: morata, willian, drinkwater, cahill, zappacosta or moses
take Martial and Dybala (if possible)
Hazard-martial-dybala for the rest of the season

[Vesper 27,329]

2 minutes ago, blues.bridge said:

maybe in jenuary we can try to put some deal with united and mourinho!
like take martial and  give Willian £65B and cahill.
for jenuary market:
sell: morata, willian, drinkwater, cahill, zappacosta or moses
take Martial and Dybala (if possible)
Hazard-martial-dybala for the rest of the season

Oki I will bite, and post what i would like to see us work towards starting in January, in terms of the actual team (you know my 21 outs, and again, they do not all have to go at once).

This all assumes Hazard does NOT renew and we sell or swap him next summer, if he stays just ignore the LW part

 

25 man roster

 

GK Kepa

GK  b/u Angus Gunn

GK 2nd b/u Marcin Bulka

 

CB Rudiger

CB ( TWO of these) Marquinhos (1st choice) or Matthijs de Ligt (2nd choice) or Benjamin Pavard (3rd choice) or Jonathan Tah (4th choice)

CB (2nd of the four right above)

CB AC

CB Ampadu

 

LB  Ryan Sessegnon (1st choice) or  Júnior Firpo - Real Betis (2nd choice and is my newest tracked player to be a WC fullback, he is big (1.84m), pacey as fuck, tenacious, great passer, I almost rate him as good as Sessegnon)  or Alejandro Grimaldo - Benfica  (3rd choice) or Wendell - Bayer Leverkusen (4th choice)

LB b/u Emerson or (if he is indeed never going to recover to Roma pre-knee injury form) Ferland Mendy Lyon (1st choice) or Dalbert - Inter Milan (2nd choice) or Borna Sosa - Stuttgart (3rd choice) or Marcelo Saracchi - RB Leipzig  (4th choice)

RB Azpi

RB  b/u IF we bought Pavard, he would be the backup RB, if we do not, then stick with Zappacosta, but if he insists on a transfer, then Elseid Hysaj (1st choice and eventual Azpi replacement, IF he accepts  waiting to start mostly) or (more likely) Davide Calabria  AC Milan 21yo (2nd choice) or Adam Marusic - Lazio (3rd choice) or Melingo Kevin Mbabu - Young Boys (4th choice)

 

DH DMF Jorginho

Box to Box hybrid AMF Kante IF he cannot adapt to Sarriball by next summer, we may have to sell him (I can hear the screams now, but if he simply cannot adapt it makes zero sense to hold onto a £120m best in world DMF that sits due to system), in which case I would go for Pogba (1st choice and we would have the Kante money to flat out buy him, IF we did sell Kante) or  Rúben Neves of Wolves who can play almost anywhere in MF (2nd choice)

CMF Kovacic (IF we lose him back to RM, then  Frenkie de Jong of Ajax (1st choice) or the others I list in next CMF spot

CMF Bryan Cristante (on loan to Roma from Atalanta, 1st choice) or Amadou Haidara - RB Salzburg (2nd choice) or Roberto Gagliardini - Inter (3rd choice) or Nicolò Barella - Cagliari (4th choice)

AMF Kai Havertz (1st choice) or Talisca (2nd choice)

AMF Barkley 

 

LW  Marco Asensio (only way he would ever come here is if RM tossed him into a Hazard deal, 1st choice) or Federico Chiesa (2nd choice and far more likely, and probably as good) or Vinícius Júnior (same as Asensio, buy maybe a WEE less unlikely, 3rd choice) or Mikel Oyarzabal (4th choice)

LW b/u CHO

RW Bailey (1st choice BY FAR) all the rest are b/u

RW b/u David Neres (1st choice) or Suso (2nd choice) 

 

CF Icardi (1st choice) or Dybala (2nd choice) or Martial (3rd choice) or Krzysztof Piatek (4th choice)

CF b/u Maximiliano Gómez - Celta Vigo or Giovanni Simeone - Fiorentina (flip a coin, lol)

CF 2nd b/u Giroud

 

Junior Firpo

 

David Neres

 

Bryan Cristante

 

Frenkie de Jong

 

Angus Gunn

 

Giovanni Simeone

 

finally, because MF is so damn complicated, here is a complete breakdown where I list all remotely available and also go into our targets

 

[El P. 1,354]

10 hours ago, manpe said:

This average manager has led those rotters to 6 wins out of 7. One draw and "Sarri Out" seeds getting planted already? So fucking spoilt.

I never said that Sarri is average, "including manager and the board" meant that they too could see how average Alonso is, if he doesn't score.

[manpe 10,855]

52 minutes ago, El P. said:

I never said that Sarri is average, "including manager and the board" meant that they too could see how average Alonso is, if he doesn't score.

Man that's embarrassing, how could I misinterpret your and Vesper's posts so badly.  My only excuse was being under the influence and having a bad trip (very negative thinking)  My bad

[El P. 1,354]

Just now, manpe said:

Man that's embarrassing, how could I misinterpret your and Vesper's posts so badly.  My only excuse was being under the influence 

Well, usually you are top poster so I gave you benefit of a doubt and stood calm, but yes, misunderstanding big time.

[El P. 1,354]

10 hours ago, Robguima said:

Suspect we understand the word "average" a bit differently.

You say in your post that we have so few goal scorers in the team, which by definition makes Alonso, a goal scorer, not average. In a broader sense, a player who is linked with RM and plays for Spain is not average.

Once again, just pointing out that there is personal preference in the mix here, which is absolutely fine of course. On the other hand, in a game where (the key player) Hazard was invisible, I'm surprised to find this thread (of the left back) so active...  are we not expecting a bit too much from our left back? "Just" defending seems to be enough for the other one...

Argument that he is linked with RM means nothing. It's not like he will replace Marcelo any time soon, they may have only wanted him as a backup.

I repeat, without goals he is average, and he will not keep scoring like in first 4 games. He have scored 6-7 goals per season for us, that's a goal every 4 games. That cannot justify all of his shortcomings.

[ja1 1,166]

Alonso was awful yesterday. My issue with him and some of the claims made about him is he literally plays like yesterday every game. Average quality crosses, slows play down as he can’t take on full back one on one, poor defensively, and his passing is nothing better than average. Then every so often (playing as described) he pops in the box and happens to get fouled in the box or has a deflected header get turned in or makes a 10 yard pass assist and I keep hearing about how great he is going forward and how technically brilliant he is. The Newcastle game was a great example. Played exactly the same as yesterday but won a dubious penalty and had an off target header deflected in and he’s the best LB in the PL again.

 

I do understand and appreciate Alonso’s game. Few full backs play like him. He’s, I guess, a poacher from LB. Meunier is a player who’s similar (although better in a traditional full back role than Alonso). By that he rarely impacts the game from wide left, it is more him getting in the box and making things happen, getting on the end of passes/crosse, finding space. I’m no fan of him as an overall left back but I do concede his output is still strong since joining. But at what detriment to the team? He often pulls inside when Hazard is on the ball leaving him to do work on his own wife left and of course he can’t be in two places at once - West Ham often took advantage of space he left behind when he’s literally on the same level as Morata/Willian. 

 

Watch Robertson, Mendy, hell even Luke Shaw and they all impact the game for more positively and consistently going forward at LB than Alonso, by stretching teams, opening up space, creating chances, providing width and overlapping runs. With Mendy and Robertson even with assists from open play they beat Alonso so it’s not like other traditional full backs can’t match or better Alonso’s output. 

 

If we were smart while people still think he’s great (the amount of times I see ‘best LB in the world’ or ‘our version of Marcelo’ on twitter makes me wanna cry but twitter does that for most things) sell for big money and replace him. Unfortunately I think this guy is here for long term. I kinda get why people are attached with him with the occasional clutch goals he gets but I’m afraid it doesn’t cover up his cracks for me.

 

tL/dr: I basically just think we’d be a better team if we had a LB like Mendy/Robertson - I believe they’d match Alonso in goal contributions, roughly, but also improve team overall with the way they play and compliment our attackers.

 

 

 

[El P. 1,354]

His cross isn't bad, but he isn't getting in crossing position because he can't beat his man or run fast to save his life. He is always marked.

[Alabama 1,992]

A better left full back is right there in our squad but our brilliant manager keeps persisting with David Luiz and Alonso... 

Am sick and tired of this buy Telles/Grimaldo talk... Don't get me wrong am all for quality injection into the team but we have a brilliant better quality player in Emerson... Watch the guy grow frustrated and leave for another team where he becomes  a beast.... 

[robsblubot 3,225]

8 hours ago, El P. said:

Argument that he is linked with RM means nothing. It's not like he will replace Marcelo any time soon, they may have only wanted him as a backup.

I repeat, without goals he is average, and he will not keep scoring like in first 4 games. He have scored 6-7 goals per season for us, that's a goal every 4 games. That cannot justify all of his shortcomings

but but if you have to take his goals away for him to become average like you say, wouldn’t it make him distinctly not average with the goals?

Regardless I certainly see a hell lot more than “just” important goals from him. I bet Spain sees that too...  

[Fulham Broadway 16,396]

Languid style, appears lacklustre at times almost lazy- but will retort with pinpoint assists, and crucial goals so he's a bit of a marmite player amongst fans, but a club favourite. 

More concerned with Kovatic atm. Barkley impresses more.

[Vesper 27,329]

4 hours ago, eemanyooel said:

A better left full back is right there in our squad but our brilliant manager keeps persisting with David Luiz and Alonso... 

Am sick and tired of this buy Telles/Grimaldo talk... Don't get me wrong am all for quality injection into the team but we have a brilliant better quality player in Emerson... Watch the guy grow frustrated and leave for another team where he becomes  a beast.... 

Some points.

Telles (75m euro release clause on new contract) and Jose Gaya (100m euro release clause in new contract) are now off the table.

The only 4 actually available top class LB's at the moment are

1. Ryan Sessegnon (but Fulham want around £80m) Would love him, but cannot see the board dropping that type of money, plus he really wants to be a winger or AMF.

2. Junior Firpo of Real Betis who I think we need to beat Shitty to. He has rocketed up the charts and is the real deal. Big (1.84m) super pacey (Kyle Walker level fast) great tackler and passer. 54m euro release clause and unlike Porto and Valencia, Betis will negotiate and need cash.

3. Alejandro Grimaldo - Benfica 2nd best affordable option but has so many clubs sniffing around.

4. Wendell - Bayer Leverkusen (issue there is we need Bailey and perhaps Tah, plus I would love to eventually pull AMF Kai Havertz, so Bayer will not let all go in a window or a window and a half). They are struggling atm and will perhaps miss out on Europe,  which aids us greatly.

Firpo would be PERFECT. Far better in long run than Alonso. 

As for Emerson, it is not just Sarri not rating him. At this point it is looking like he is still damaged goods from his knee injury at Roma. If he was at pre injury Roma level now, I have no doubt he would starting, or at least playing a lot more.

At that old level the only LB's I would rate over him (in terms of actually buying as Marcelo, Jordi Alba are too old) would be (and remember, many of these are NOT available):

In order:

David Alaba

Lucas Hernandez

Alex Sandro (after this next summer, and maybe even now, too old to justify £70m that Juve want) 

Benjamin Mendy

Jose Gaya

Ryan Sessegnon 

Junior Firpo (he could move above even some here)

Emerson (pre injury)

Alex Telles

If Emerson turns out to be Zouma'd we need to cut him loose. If not, then we still need to move on Firpo. Better player at end if the day. Emerson if recovers finally is worth keeping for rotation/back up.

Alonso needs to go asap, he is not a Sarriball LB, he is a defensive liability and Real want him badly and would pay basically what Firpo would cost.

 

[ja1 1,166]

21 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Some points.

 

What do you think on Theo Hernandez? When he went to Madrid I was very jealous, for just £30m too or thereabouts. Was convinced they’d got one of the future best LBs in the world. First season doesn’t appear to have gone well.

[Vesper 27,329]

10 hours ago, manpe said:

Man that's embarrassing, how could I misinterpret your and Vesper's posts so badly.  My only excuse was being under the influence and having a bad trip (very negative thinking)  My bad

totally oki! I learned long ago (well as long ago as a 26yo can, lol) that pills and internet do not mix

 

[manpe 10,855]

8 minutes ago, Vesper said:

totally oki! I learned long ago (well as long ago as a 26yo can, lol) that pills and internet do not mix

 

How could you tell it was pills not weed or powder or some nasty intravenous shit?  Tho tbh I'm under one now, but yesterday I took 4.5 and it fucked my mind up badly. Never again. I had my birthday yesterday and when a few people came to congratulate me I couldn't even crack a smile or say anything beyond a tranquil "thank you". Feel like a douche. They brought me food and a box of raffellos (my favs, other than ferrero rocher maybe), so fucking sweet 

 

Marcos has nothing on Fernando Alonso as far as Alonsos go. But he does have a premier league title so Fernando can stick to playing with cars.

[Vesper 27,329]

22 minutes ago, ja1 said:

What do you think on Theo Hernandez? When he went to Madrid I was very jealous, for just £30m too or thereabouts. Was convinced they’d got one of the future best LBs in the world. First season doesn’t appear to have gone well.

I have put him on other LB lists as a possible squad player. Dont rate him atm anywhere near the ones I listed here (all on the list above are starting quality, above Alonso, for Sarriball system.

Lucas, his brother, WOW, what a player. Real bought the wrong one, lolol.

Firpo is my new obsession, have watched him play in 5 or six games, full games. Real deal, explosive athlete and he is Spanish bred and trained, so superb technical skill, like Alonso and Gaya, Alba, etc.