🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Tammy Abraham

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Before I answer, are you defending Abraham or not defending Abraham?

And I don't get this...

 

Not defending anyone. Just putting stats. 

I meant... Everytime Abraham started he had goal or assist except 3 or 4 games. 

[Pizy 18,918]

My big question is whether you would feel confident going up against the best in Europe or the PL with Tammy as our main striker. Is he good enough to consistently score against the biggest and best opposition? Key word consistently.

For me he isn’t. And I don’t think he’s scaring any top teams at all in the way Lewandowski/Kane/Aguero/Haaland do. He’s a penalty box only striker. When teams defend that area well Tammy is nearly useless. He’s never going to get the ball and dribble at players, he’s not going to sprint with the ball and terrify defenders. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I’ve ever seen him have a shot from outside the box.

He could become an excellent Plan B striker in the way Giroud has been for us but I highly doubt he’d go for that at his age. And he probably backs himself as a top player. But he simply isn’t. 

[Jase 43,479]

26 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Not defending anyone. Just putting stats. 

I meant... Everytime Abraham started he had goal or assist except 3 or 4 games. 

True but last season's stat doesn't exactly tell that story. 

My point with the context earlier is that 5 of Abraham's 12 goals this season have come against Barnsley and Luton, meaning he's scored only 7 goals against supposedly better opponents. Yes, goals are goals but it's just a little misleading to use it as something to brag about Abraham. Otherwise, we should brag about Jorginho being our joint-top scorer in the league as well.

Looking deeper into his appearances this season and I don't know if Lampard had doubts about his abilities or whatever, lots of Abraham's starts and goal contributions have come against the lesser sides - WBA, Crystal Palace, Burnley, Sheffield United, Newcastle (although he did also score against West Ham and Arsenal). That aside, he either did not start the other games or started but didn't contribute anything, at least, in terms of goals and assists.

Stats don't always tell the whole story of course but it's little things like that explain why people have doubts over him and as I said earlier, the #9 position is an unforgiving position, especially for a club like us and what we want to achieve. Also for the love of god, please don't bring Werner into this because (a) while he may have been used as the #9 for specific matches/opponents, he's not an out-and-out #9 striker and (b) there's enough discussions about his usefulness and what not already.

Plus with Tuchel, it's clear that he, like many managers out there I think, looks beyond than just the goals and assists. He clearly wants his #9 to do more than just scoring. It's also another reason why pure goal poachers in general don't work anymore because managers of the top clubs especially want their strikers to do more.

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

 

[Jase 43,479]

12 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

Assuming that includes assists as well? I don't know about the others but 48 of Abraham's career goals have come in the Championship. It's one thing to score goals consistently in a lower division, it's another to do so in a top division or at the highest level. That's one reason why people have doubts over him.

And given people's obsession with just goals, I do wonder how someone like Drogba would survive in this day and age.

[killer1257 3,282]

 

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

 

Trade for Rice? lol

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

His level atm if he's looking at a club to lead the line. Assuming West Ham remain a club battling for a European place. 

[King Kante 1,643]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

 

Tammy and say £10m for Rice then that is ok. If not, they can jog on. 

I am not the biggest Tammy fan, however I do worry he is one of those CF's that don't look anything that special then gets to 25 and becomes a machine. Both Drogba and Costa were like this. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

Don't think the club are after Rice at all. 

 

[Jase 43,479]

9 minutes ago, King Kante said:

Tammy and say £10m for Rice then that is ok. If not, they can jog on. 

I am not the biggest Tammy fan, however I do worry he is one of those CF's that don't look anything that special then gets to 25 and becomes a machine. Both Drogba and Costa were like this. 

Insert buy back clause? 

[killer1257 3,282]

 

[King Kante 1,643]

15 minutes ago, Jason said:

Insert buy back clause? 

If Rice is part if the package I do not see that being an option. 

Tbf, we actually really need a CM/DMF with Rice's abilities. Only other options for me are: SMS, Gravenberch and Camavinga. 

However, all these options have issues: 

1) SMS has big questions over his stamina and ability to pick up the pace of the league. However, technically he is a very good footballer for a player of his size with both his feet. Furthermore, we could actually do with a player of his age profile as we don't have enough in the 25-29 category. 

2) Camavinga is still super young and only had Ligue 1 experience. We need a player in the middle who is ready to go day one. Obviously has a lot of potential and the natural ability to be the best of the lot but he may need some time and would be super hard to get hold of and expensive. 

3) Gravenberch. Similar to Camavinga but probably a little more ready for the PL physically. However, players from the Dutch league always feel like a crap shoot for me. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by King Kante

[Jase 43,479]

11 minutes ago, King Kante said:

If Rice is part if the package I do not see that being an option. 

Tbf, we actually really need a CM/DMF with Rice's abilities. Only other options for me are: SMS, Gravenberch and Camavinga. 

However, all these options have issues: 

1) SMS has big questions over his stamina and ability to pick up the pace of the league. However, technically he is a very good footballer for a player of his size with both his feet. Furthermore, we could actually do with a player of his age profile as we don't have enough in the 25-29 category. 

2) Camavinga is still super young and only had Ligue 1 experience. We need a player in the middle who is ready to go day one. Obviously has a lot of potential and the natural ability to be the best of the lot but he may need some time and would be super hard to get hold of and expensive. 

3) Gravenberch. Similar to Camavinga but probably a little more ready for the PL physically. However, players from the Dutch league always feel like a crap shoot for me. 

That's very reassuring, KK. 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

10 hours ago, King Kante said:

Tammy and say £10m for Rice then that is ok. If not, they can jog on. 

I am not the biggest Tammy fan, however I do worry he is one of those CF's that don't look anything that special then gets to 25 and becomes a machine. Both Drogba and Costa were like this. 

I am sorry but I thought April fools was over a week ago....

£10m and a player with a little over 2 years left on his contract? For someone who West Ham reportedly value at over 100m and has a contract to 2024 with a 12 month extension option? As well as the fact there’s talk they want him to sign a new and improved contract... 

I think some people are dreaming here. Its Tammy Abraham, not Leo Messi, who we would be trading here to West Ham 😂 going to take a lot lot lot more than £10m and him in any potential deal if this is to happen.

[King Kante 1,643]

12 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

I am sorry but I thought April fools was over a week ago....

£10m and a player with a little over 2 years left on his contract? For someone who West Ham reportedly value at over 100m and has a contract to 2024 with a 12 month extension option? As well as the fact there’s talk they want him to sign a new and improved contract... 

I think some people are dreaming here. Its Tammy Abraham, not Leo Messi, who we would be trading here to West Ham 😂 going to take a lot lot lot more than £10m and him in any potential deal if this is to happen.

Not saying it would happen. I am just saying hard ball them. They do not have a striker and are playing a utility player as CF at the moment. Further, they paid £40m+ for Haller and next season they are likely to be playing European football so they need to buy a number of players to bulk out their squad due to the demands. 

Tammy is going to be wanted for a variety of reasons: good goals to minutes record, age, passport. I would put all of the following teams in the bracket that could want him: WHU, Palace, Brighton, Soton (if Ings goes), Wolves (if Jimenez is a goner), Newcastle (if they stay up.) Essentially play all those teams off of each other if they show interest. 

For me Tammy is a serviceable CF2 at a club like ours who is HG and cost us only his development fee. If teams want him then we should put demands on them like they do the big clubs when they come calling for one of their better players.

So, all in all, I am not saying that the proposed suggestion was a definite transfer that could happen, rather it should be what we tell them if they come calling because, who else are they going to sign at CF outside of him? 

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

In this market, Tammy is easily a 40million signing. Easily. 

HG, young and a proven goal scorer. Someone mentioned it elsewhere, but he is a player that will genuinely get better with time. 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,819]

I feel for Tammy after what was said in Tuchel’s presser.

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

36 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

I feel for Tammy after what was said in Tuchel’s presser.

And people think having 7 attackers fighting for 3 positions won't be an issue next season. 😂🤣

 

[King Kante 1,643]

56 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

And people think having 7 attackers fighting for 3 positions won't be an issue next season. 😂🤣

 

There won't be 7 attackers. Tammy and Giroud are almost certainly gone and I expect if a decent offer came in for one of the AM's the club would sell and try and reset it slightly.