Lack of English players in the squad

[Shane 2,275]

Shaw would have been a great signing bar for his astronomical wages. Paying a 19 year old 100k a week after the fantastic business already done in the transfer window would have been a great shame. That, and the £30m fee for a player who had one full season in the Premiership makes no sense. Seeing as the defensive side of his game is very very questionable.

[Term-X 7,891]

You clearly know nothing about Jose. His first spell here there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING close to a proper youth set up. When he went to Inter he basically built that foundation for them and brought in Balotelli into a treble winning squad... And yes at Real with their high standards he got Varane, Morata and Jese through.

What you guys will all come to understand sooner rather than later is for youth to come through you need stability in the management position. Until Jose is here for 4-5 yrs you won't see youth brought in.

You can wank all you want over Luke Shaw, he hasn't proven anything to me other than having some potential and being an English Chelsea fan... That's it. 30m for him looks ridiculously dumb.

You clearly know absolutely zero about Jose Mourinho, and you are very naive.

Varane was a highly rated foreign youth like Zouma, that's not bringing anyone through! lmao. Highly rated youths like Van Ginkel are killing Chalobah and the like, because their age range blocks the path. Again, Shaw was the best natural left back in the Premier League last season, there is a reason highly rated pundits like Neville rated him above Azpi & Baines. We went for Shaw (as Mourinho mentioned) but his wage demands were too high, so the club itself disagrees with your opinion on him.

The legacy (the type that matters) he left behind at Inter was only negative, old & past it players on big contracts, he left a mess behind. Clubs in general eventually revamp their youth setup, and let a few of them sit on the bench etc, integrating them is another thing altogether. Mourinho can change all that at Chelsea though, not this season however, the pressure to win is too high after last season. I personally expect and hope to see changes in the 3rd year.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

You clerly know absolutely zero about Jose Mourinho, and you are very naive.

Varane was a highly rated foreign youth like Zouma, that's not bringing anyone through! lmao. Highly rated youths like Van Ginkel are killing Chalobah and the like, because their age range blocks the path. Again, Shaw was the best natural left back in the Premier League last season, there is a reason highly rated pundits like Neville rated him above Azpi & Baines. We went for Shaw (as Mourinho mentioned) but his wage demands were too high, so the club itself disagrees with your opinion on him.

The legacy (the type that matters) he left behind at Inter was only negative, old & past it players on big contracts, he left a mess behind. Clubs in general eventually revamp their youth setup, and let a few of them sit on the bench etc, integrating them is another thing altogether. Mourinho can change all that at Chelsea though, not this season however, the pressure to win is too high after last season. I personally expect and hope to see changes in the 3rd year.

Yes a highly rated foreign youth who wasn't expected to break into the side for a few years! Pepe, Ramos and Carvalho(long in the tooth) were still in his plans at the time of the purchase. The fact that Jose went against the popular decision and played Varane and endured LOADS of criticism because of it PROVES he plays who he thinks is best for the team!

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it truthful, in no way is Van Ginkel blocking anyone... If they are good enough they will play, Van Ginkel is just potential not a definite! Same with Baker and Chalobah... Jose will show preference to English talent because we need them for the quota but aside from that its whoever is best for the team.

He didn't go for Shaw yes because his wage demands weren't in line with his skill level on the pitch. Shaw has potential but it needs to be realized! Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

Go back and do you homework, son. Jose completely rebuilt Inter's youth set up... Not even worth debating, the owner said it with his own mouth.

[Term-X 7,891]

Yes a highly rated foreign youth who wasn't expected to break into the side for a few years! Pepe, Ramos and Carvalho(long in the tooth) were still in his plans at the time of the purchase. The fact that Jose went against the popular decision and played Varane and endured LOADS of criticism because of it PROVES he plays who he thinks is best for the team!

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it truthful, in no way is Van Ginkel blocking anyone... If they are good enough they will play, Van Ginkel is just potential not a definite! Same with Baker and Chalobah... Jose will show preference to English talent because we need them for the quota but aside from that its whoever is best for the team.

He didn't go for Shaw yes because his wage demands weren't in line with his skill level on the pitch. Shaw has potential but it needs to be realized! Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

Go back and do you homework, son. Jose completely rebuilt Inter's youth set up... Not even worth debating, the owner said it with his own mouth.

I don't care what he did with Inter's stone age youth setup, no point building a house only to abandon it, he left Inter in a mess when he left for Real, old washed up has-beens on big contracts. Hopefully we can keep him long enough to actually see a youth project like that through to an end.

Paying a premium for highly rated foreign 'yet still raw like Chalobah' youths kills the academy, it's fact; if this was a queue, these guys would be jumping the line.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I don't care what he did with Inter's stone age youth setup, no point building a house only to abandon it, he left Inter in a mess when he left for Real, old washed up has-beens on big contracts. Hopefully we can keep him long enough to actually see a youth project like that through to an end.

Paying a premium for highly rated foreign 'yet still raw like Chalobah' youths kills the academy, it's fact; if this was a queue, these guys would be jumping the line.

But its not a queue now is it? You sound like you're straight out of the stone ages... This is football, the best will play! No one is given preference! You have to fight hard to get into a top 5 side in the world! Lukaku was purchased for something like 18m and found this out too! Nothing is promised to you because of you birth paper or your transfer fee.

[Term-X 7,891]

But its not a queue now is it? You sound like you're straight out of the stone ages... This is football, the best will play! No one is given preference! You have to fight hard to get into a top 5 side in the world! Lukaku was purchased for something like 18m and found this out too! Nothing is promised to you because of you birth paper or your transfer fee.

Nobody knows the inner workings of the club, I just think my guess is better than yours. Mourinho will have to deal with the politics that goes on, it's about ROI, Van Ginkel & Zouma have pound signs over their heads; they can't go to waste like a mere academy prospect who's arguably just as raw. The spending on the academy doesn't go on the FFP books, Zouma & Van Ginkel's deals do.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Nobody knows the inner workings of the club, I just think my guess is better than yours. Mourinho will have to deal with the politics that goes on, it's about ROI, Van Ginkel & Zouma have pound signs over their heads; they can't go to waste like a mere academy prospect who's arguably just a raw. The spending on the academy doesn't go on the FFP books, Zouma & Van Ginkel's deals do.

If you really think the 12M spent on Zouma is gonna keep an English young up and comer from getting into a squad that needs HG talent then I don't know what else to say to you... If it doesn't work out its a nominal investment for a young promising talent, he'll be sold on! Zouma likely will get into our first team before the English youth you've cited, not because of the 12M we paid, but because he's better! Period end of story....

[Term-X 7,891]

If you really think the 12M spent on Zouma is gonna keep an English young up and comer from getting into a squad that needs HG talent then I don't know what else to say to you... If it doesn't work out its a nominal investment for a young promising talent, he'll be sold on! Zouma likely will get into our first team before the English youth you've cited, not because of the 12M we paid, but because he's better! Period end of story....

Van Ginkel is not a better player than Chalobah.

Yet.. he will get 'preferential' treatment because of the fee involved (ROI), because of how the FFP system works, there is no risk in the academy, if you spend £8m on Van Ginkel.. you need to see him being given some sort of chance, whether that's being involved in the side or high profile loans. Mourinho works closely with Emenalo and the board, there is a element of politics.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Van Ginkel is not a better player than Chalobah.

Yet.. he will get 'preferential' treatment because of the fee involved (ROI), because of how the FFP system works, there is no risk in the academy, if you spend £8m on Van Ginkel.. you need to see him being given some sort of chance, whether that's being involved in the side or high profile loans. Mourinho works closely with Emenalo and the board, there is a element of politics.

LOL!

He's a freaking Dutch international you melt!

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

Well best English players in the England squad, how many will make it into the Chelsea squad, lets look at them compared to our squad now:

Hart-LOL

Johnson-Past it about 3 years now, even Liverpool fans want him out

Jagielka-Raped by Costa last week

Baines-Fair enough but already got someone as good in Dave and Filipe, maybe even better and much younger

Wilshere-LOL him vs Fab or Matic?

Lallana-No where near good enough compared to our 5 cam, maybe better than Salah but that doesn't say much

Sterling-only player will likely start but then again he is a young super star already so never gonna happen

OX-again not as good as 5 CAM, got potential to be better but injury prone as hell

Sturridge-Probably backup to Costa, but then again his story with Chelsea is what we all know

Rooney-would have taken him last summer but now Costa is arguably a better ST so no need, won't even good at CAM either and not that fast

Barkley-again potential but atm probably on par with Schurrle/Willian at best and injured

Welbeck-trolollolololool

Henderson-again good but not good enough to start for Chelsea ahead of Matic or Fab

Shaw-could have been but overpriced as fuck

Lambert-Remy is better backup

Walcott-again probably on par with Schurrle and Willian but injured and unclear how will do when comeback

Milner-not good enough

and the rest are shit that can't even get into Spurs, Arsenal, MU...etc 11

There you go, probably 3 English players(Rooney, Sterling and Sturridge) along with 2 potential in OX and Barkley who could broke into our 11 if in the squad. The rests are no where near good enough, not even for back up and as one of the best club in the world, we should have the best players. Just because we are a English club and they are English doesn't mean we have to chase after them, unless you want them to make our squad look 'British' and 'respectable' then promoting the likes of Baker, Bamford to the 1st team is better.

Then will you have Barkley for 50-60m or Reus for 30m? one is infinitely better and cheaper, much easy to get as well...explains why lack of English players in the top, top clubs like us.

[Shane 2,275]

If a big fee came in for Oscar I think he should sell him and bring in Barkley.

[lionsden 4,689]

There hasn't been an English talent worth buying for first team purposes they say. The amount of bullshit that get spewed on here is ridiculous sometimes. Sterling and Barkley are attacking mid I had take over oscar every day of the week, Sturridge is clearly better than our striker options bar Costa, If you gave me Walcott, I had personally drive Willian to the airport myself, Wilshere obviously over Ramires and mikel, Stones and Calum chambers I had takle over Zouma and Shaw would more than hold his own against any left back. But carry on with the old and tired "Englsih talents are overrated" narrative

[zolayes 14,489]

There hasn't been an English talent worth buying for first team purposes they say. The amount of bullshit that get spewed on here is ridiculous sometimes. Sterling and Barkley are attacking mid I had take over oscar every day of the week, Sturridge is clearly better than our striker options bar Costa, If you gave me Walcott, I had personally drive Willian to the airport myself, Wilshere obviously over Ramires and mikel, Stones and Calum chambers I had takle over Zouma and Shaw would more than hold his own against any left back. But carry on with the old and tired "Englsih talents are overrated" narrative

did you watch England v Norway , Your hatred of Oscar has scrambled your brain .. seems you are becoming increasingly xenophobic ... What next who should replace mourhino and lets pray Levy buys out

Roman

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

There hasn't been an English talent worth buying for first team purposes they say. The amount of bullshit that get spewed on here is ridiculous sometimes. Sterling and Barkley are attacking mid I had take over oscar every day of the week, Sturridge is clearly better than our striker options bar Costa, If you gave me Walcott, I had personally drive Willian to the airport myself, Wilshere obviously over Ramires and mikel, Stones and Calum chambers I had takle over Zouma and Shaw would more than hold his own against any left back. But carry on with the old and tired "Englsih talents are overrated" narrative

And what price do you place on these players who are supposedly better than we have?

[lionsden 4,689]

And what price do you place on these players who are supposedly better than we have?

I don't know. You tell me since you already have a predetermined opinion that English talent are inferior to their foreign counterpart.

one thing I do know for sure is Sterling is the best teenager in world football currently and most non biased neutrals share that pov. a pov thats based on merit rather than hype nontheless. Sturridge and walcott are amongst the most productive attackers in Europe (Nos don't lie) and an injury free and in form Wilshire is one of the finest midfielders in this league.

[Nike 373]

I don't know. You tell me since you already have a predetermined opinion that English talent are inferior to their foreign counterpart.

one thing I do know for sure is Sterling is the best teenager in world football currently and most non biased neutrals share that pov. a pov thats based on merit rather than hype nontheless. Sturridge and walcott are amongst the most productive attackers in Europe (Nos don't lie) and an injury free and in form Wilshire is one of the finest midfielders in this league.

LOL, best teenager in the world. Same people that said lukaku was the best young CF in the world.

[Nike 373]

Liverpool are the phoenix suns of the football world.

Their best defense is a gunho offense with their stat padding. It's funny daniel scores a tap in for england and sterling scored 0 goals. Maybe because england's setup is more conservative and Liverpool play in a gunho offense.

[Barbara 15,149]

What a weird discussion. Barbara, I haven't read any of your posts so I'm not addressing you.

Firstly, I think this whole discussion actually belongs in a different thread and not the board one. In terms of the board's handling of English talent, well they bought Gary Cahill in 2012 and that was about as good a bit of business that could be done in that regard in the last three years.

I'll state from the outset that I want us to have an English core. We're an English club (very specifically a London club) and it's important to the supporters that we have English players. That won't change.

But amongst the mewling for English players I see very few actual names of players that we should be buying and that's because there aren't many suitable ones. By suitable I mean a) good enough for this squad and b ) available at c) a decent price.

Who exactly should we be targetting? Specifically which players?

Shaw? £30 million when we just bought Luis and promoted Nathan Ake (young, talented and homegrown) to the squad. A guy who would earn more than Cahill, Oscar, Azpi, Ivanovic, Courtois, Matic and Schurrle? Not realistic.

Stones? Possibly but the prices quoted are twice what we paid for Zouma, three times what we paid for Cahill (who he's probably closest too in terms of style) and more than what we paid for Kalas, Omeruo, Christensen, Zouma and Ake combined.

The way forward for this club to produce young English talent seems obvious to me - produce it in-house.....and that's what we're doing. There is no new Lampard on the horizon for England, but maybe Loftus-Cheek or Baker or Boga can become our own. Ashley Cole is the greatest left-back this country has produced, but maybe we can get close with DaSilva. Then there's the Chalobahs, Solankes, Ainas and even Colketts who might come through.

English talent needs to be exceptional to succeed here and exceptional English talent is thin on the ground. Until we have the framework to insert these players into the squad and the first-team then it's hard to get the production line going but we're getting closer than we have done for years and for that the board (to bring it back on-topic) deserves credit.

If you had read them you would have known I don't think we should overspend or pursue those expensive English players now, but that we should keep in mind at all times - as a club - that we should keep a core. If we can't buy those now because they're overpriced, we need to start producing them. Also I disagree about your last paragraph and I wrote a whole post on that. We don't need to have the very best player in the world in each position. Teams are about balance. I gave examples about Bayern and Barcelona of a few years having players that could be easily replaced, but they managed to dominate the world football with Mascherano, Busquets (when he wasn't on his peak yet), Gomez, Mandzukic, average FBs (except Lahm). Bayern could even have used a better CB two years ago. As long as we have some key players, we can manage decent players. Cahill isn't even close one of the best CBs in the world in my opinion and still he did a brilliant job here last season. Decent players can make a job if the team is balanced.

So I'm advocating we - as a club - keep it in mind and make it one of our priorities. If we're going to sign another Cahill - for a fair price - or produce another JT, I don't care, but we shouldn't just ignore this problem and offer some lame excuse such as English players not being among the best in the world. I think some are underrated because everyone just looks to how awful the NT is and label everyone as shit or ordinary. Wilshere, Sterling, Daniel are players I could see playing here. I don't see how much worse Sterling is to Schurrle or Willian, or Wilshere to Oscar and Ramires, or how Daniel wouldn't have won us the title last season (I do think Costa is better, doesn't mean Daniel wouldn't be enough).

If I'm supporting an English team is because I like English football, I want to see English players there. I don't know how that can be weird? I feel the same about RM or Inter... I started watching leagues not teams, then I fell in love with Italian football, then Spanish football, then English. I've watched plenty of German football years ago, trying to see if I liked it - I don't. I really don't see any appeal in Bundesliga. I enjoy Dutch football more. So I want to look to my English team and see English players there because I think it's what makes that team English. Do they need to be 6-7-8? Not necessarily. Do they need to start every match, no, they don't, but if those teams don't give me a resemblance of being English, Italian or Spanish, then there's something wrong because I started watching those leagues and liked them because of their identity.

But somehow those values are being less and less important. What really matters is money, titles, prestige. The most important thing is how big our trophy room is - as if our history is only that - and then all of sudden we're Liverpool fans. And it doesn't matter anymore if the people going to the stadium suddenly don't feel like supporting their home team, but a bunch of internationals that win them titles. A lot of people will still love going there, but many others won't and they will look to the team and see no resemblance of what they fell in love with or feel how it represents them. But the silverware will be there to comfort them, so they should be content. I think the local support is what sustains a club and the moment they don't care anymore and can't identify themselves with the club or recognize their club in the current squad, we have a problem. I have a problem with that an ocean away, but even if I didn't, the club can live without me, but it can't live without the local support and for many that's still important. More important than titles because we could still win titles with English players here. We did it, United did it, Liverpool did it (UCL). All we need is balance.

But as I said, all it takes for some to forget about that is a bright, new shiny trophy in a room...