🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Ryan Bertrand

[CHOULO19 24,332]

The key question you need to ask yourself is Cole declined in 2010, since Ryan got brought into the squad he played under 5 Chelsea manager's and not one thought he was enough to replace an ageing past his prime Ash.

If Ash was up against a younger version of himself in his prime or even a Coentrao level player, he would have been fucked.

AVB did. Anyway, it's incredibly difficult for any youngster when you have such a big name in front of you. Sturridge was never given a proper chance ahead of Torres by AVB, RDM or Benitez. It's always easier to go with the established name.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Ryan could ever become as good as prime Cole, I just think he is better than he was treated by Chelsea, especially last season.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Create a poll?!

a. going nowhere

b. decent midtable player

c. Top club bound (but not us)

d. will play for us.

( b ) for me.

[DH1988 1,348]

Will go to Liverpool.

[Tomo 21,751]

AVB did. Anyway, it's incredibly difficult for any youngster when you have such a big name in front of you. Sturridge was never given a proper chance ahead of Torres by AVB, RDM or Benitez. It's always easier to go with the established name.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Ryan could ever become as good as prime Cole, I just think he is better than he was treated by Chelsea, especially last season.

AVB used him as sparingly as Mourinho did and also attempted to bring in Perreira.

RDM and Torres is a unique case, I doubt he had a say in it, for RDM this was his dream job, his pinnacle, Roman barely wanted him so probably gave him the condition Torres must play, RDM then probably accepted those "terms" knowing he will be sacked on the spot if he fought back. Furthermore Danny was injured during Rafas time and by then the move to scousers was as good as done.

RE the bit about established players, Rafa dropped Terry and Jose at Madrid dropped Cassilas for Lopez and Pepe for Varane, I have no doubt those two would have had the balls to make the change if they thought he could be #1 for us.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

RDM and Torres is a unique case, I doubt he had a say in it, for RDM this was his dream job, his pinnacle, Roman barely wanted him so probably gave him the condition Torres must play, RDM then probably accepted those "terms" knowing he will be sacked on the spot if he fought back.

That's a perfect example of the worst nightmare become reality, if true.

[lionsden 4,689]

This is proof that people rate players differently. The Bertrand that I saw at Chelsea was more than good enough to replace Cole or atleast be a back up. defensively he was extremely good (not Azpi good but still very good indeed) and offensively I had argue he's actually better than azpi whose offensive game is non existent (they are both crap offensively but are none more for their defensive output) I was impressed with what I saw with my own eyes and no one can tell me different.

It's funny because it's the same people that do not rate or appreciate a player who always gave his all and rarely gives a below 7/10 performances whenever called upon are the same that illogically and religiously defend oscar , a limited player who is undoubtedly one of the most inconsistent players in Europe. I have never in my life seen Bertrand played like crap for 2 games in a row never mind months on end.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

are the same that illogically and religiously defend oscar , a limited player who is undoubtedly one of the most inconsistent players in Europe.

It was all going so well until here.

[lionsden 4,689]

It was all going so well until here.

Which one is a false statement. That he's extremely inconsistent (even his biggest fans admit this) or limited (his biggest and if we are being honest, only talking point is always about his tactical nous/defensive output and how it helps maintain the shape and balance of the team. Never about vision, passing,ability to retain possession even under pressure etc.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Will go to Liverpool.

OK need to add an entry there between b and c...or perhaps 'b' will do...

[Tomo 21,751]

This is proof that people rate players differently. The Bertrand that I saw at Chelsea was more than good enough to replace Cole or atleast be a back up. defensively he was extremely good (not Azpi good but still very good indeed) and offensively I had argue he's actually better than azpi whose offensive game is non existent (they are both crap offensively but are none more for their defensive output) I was impressed with what I saw with my own eyes and no one can tell me different.

It's funny because it's the same people that do not rate or appreciate a player who always gave his all and rarely gives a below 7/10 performances whenever called upon are the same that illogically and religiously defend oscar , a limited player who is undoubtedly one of the most inconsistent players in Europe. I have never in my life seen Bertrand played like crap for 2 games in a row never mind months on end.

Bertrand had his reputation hugely enchanced by playing in the CL final, despite not playing that well, his productivity that night was poor, but we win so we forget it, if we lost RDMs decision to play Ryan would have been heavily slated.

That summer there were constant calls for him to replace Cole and at the age of 22 the next season was a big season for him if he wanted to do that.

If you look back to the period when he was playing due to Cole s injury, that's when people started to realise he is at best a good squad player, not crap at anything (apart from conceding crosses) but doesn't really excel either. I think Ryan is a case of absence makes the heart grow fonder.

He could probably have been a squad player with us under a manager who rotates defence more, but unfortunately for Ryan, Mou builds the stability of the team on defence.

He will have a decent career, but like I said earlier 5 managers passed on the opportunity to replace Ash with him, despite Ash declining all that time.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

He would probably stay if he was atleast second choice. But he wont be because Mou will always play Azpi and Luis ahead...I would still have him here, he is english, youth product and not bad at all, but he is as good as gone...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

AVB used him as sparingly as Mourinho did and also attempted to bring in Perreira.

RDM and Torres is a unique case, I doubt he had a say in it, for RDM this was his dream job, his pinnacle, Roman barely wanted him so probably gave him the condition Torres must play, RDM then probably accepted those "terms" knowing he will be sacked on the spot if he fought back. Furthermore Danny was injured during Rafas time and by then the move to scousers was as good as done.

RE the bit about established players, Rafa dropped Terry and Jose at Madrid dropped Cassilas for Lopez and Pepe for Varane, I have no doubt those two would have had the balls to make the change if they thought he could be #1 for us.

It was the last few games of his reign but he did drop Cole for Bertrand. Napoli game for example.

The story about Roman is just a tall tale. Either that or we are the worst run club in professional football. It was juts something made up by the fans to justify for RDM. And Danny was injured for a week or two during Benitez's first two months. And we were playing 2 times a week every week back then but still he would not even rest Torres for Danny. AVB never started him as a striker either despite Torres' and Droba's forms.

Regarding Terry, Benitez had no choice after JT had those back to back long-term injuries, plus the replacements were established players like Luiz, Caill and Iva, not some youngster like Danny or Ryan. And regardless of how they proved to be better, the politics at Real and Jose's personal issues with Pepe and Cassillas played a big part in why they were dropped.

[lionsden 4,689]

Bertrand had his reputation hugely enchanced by playing in the CL final, despite not playing that well, his productivity that night was poor, but we win so we forget it, if we lost RDMs decision to play Ryan would have been heavily slated.

That summer there were constant calls for him to replace Cole and at the age of 22 the next season was a big season for him if he wanted to do that.

If you look back to the period when he was playing due to Cole s injury, that's when people started to realise he is at best a good squad player, not crap at anything (apart from conceding crosses) but doesn't really excel either. I think Ryan is a case of absence makes the heart grow fonder.

He could probably have been a squad player with us under a manager who rotates defence more, but unfortunately for Ryan, Mou builds the stability of the team on defence.

He will have a decent career, but like I said earlier 5 managers passed on the opportunity to replace Ash with him, despite Ash declining all that time.

You keep using his inability to displace an ageing cole who just happens to be one of the best fullbacks of his generation as if it's some sort of evidence that Bertrand was a poor player. Firstly there's something called reputation and experience and only a manager who's either batshit crazy or ballsy would have dropped a player of that reputation for a youngster who didn't cost a lot of money or wasn't on some ridiculously high hype train. Chelsea managers not making him a starter ahead of a declining cole means absolute fuck all.

How often do we see established former world class continue to retain their starting berth despite showing major decline and consistently playing poorly. Lampard in his latter years with us was another evidence of that. Say what you want, no one can convince me that Bertrand wasn't a very good player who was good enough to start for us or be a back up.

It's also happening currently with Drogba and Remy.

[Kieran. 6,317]

It was the last few games of his reign but he did drop Cole for Bertrand. Napoli game for example.

The story about Roman is just a tall tale. Either that or we are the worst run club in professional football. It was juts something made up by the fans to justify for RDM. And Danny was injured for a week or two during Benitez's first two months. And we were playing 2 times a week every week back then but still he would not even rest Torres for Danny. AVB never started him as a striker either despite Torres' and Droba's forms.

Regarding Terry, Benitez had no choice after JT had those back to back long-term injuries, plus the replacements were established players like Luiz, Caill and Iva, not some youngster like Danny or Ryan. And regardless of how they proved to be better, the politics at Real and Jose's personal issues with Pepe and Cassillas played a big part in why they were dropped.

Didn't Bosingwa start on the left for that match?

[The Skipper 20,609]

Bertrand really isn't as bad as some of you are making it seem. He's a solid player that could've easily been a reliable back up to Cole here. Mourinho just doesn't fancy him.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Didn't Bosingwa start on the left for that match?

I remember that Ryan started. Not 100% sure, though.

[Stats 7,142]

If people compare his matches where he was 'bad' compared to the ones where he played well in they would realise most games he played for us, he done well and rarely looked out of place. He is just one of them players who have done well at us but can't replace the first choice in that position for whatever reason. Bertrand is not the only one. There is also Sturridge as well. If people want to recall games where Bertrand was poor for us please do. I remember several games where he done very well for us. Most noteably Arsenal in the 0-0 draw at the Emirates about 3 seasons ago when we rotated a lot of players due to the UCL and in saying that we ended up winning the competition. But he came in for Cole that day and was given MOTM. Was superb defensively and done well offensively as well.

I have always liked Bertrand and it is nice to see he is excelling at Southampton.

[Tomo 21,751]

You keep using his inability to displace an ageing cole who just happens to be one of the best fullbacks of his generation as if it's some sort of evidence that Bertrand was a poor player. Firstly there's something called reputation and experience and only a manager who's either batshit crazy or ballsy would have dropped a player of that reputation for a youngster who didn't cost a lot of money or wasn't on some ridiculously high hype train. Chelsea managers not making him a starter ahead of a declining cole means absolute fuck all.

How often do we see established former world class continue to retain their starting berth despite showing major decline and consistently playing poorly. Lampard in his latter years with us was another evidence of that. Say what you want, no one can convince me that Bertrand wasn't a very good player who was good enough to start for us or be a back up.

It's also happening currently with Drogba and Remy.

Do if post 2010 Ash had some one like Coentrao as his competition he wouldn't have been dropped?

I never said Bertrand was a poor player, he's a solid defender the same way Guzan is a solid keeper.

Also AVB tried to phase Lamps out of the team, it's only when Meireles started stinking the place out he got back in more regularly. Jose played him at the start if his return because he was better than the alternatives, as soon as that changed (with Matics arrival) he hit the bench.

[lionsden 4,689]

Do if post 2010 Ash had some one like Coentrao as his competition he wouldn't have been dropped?

I never said Bertrand was a poor player, he's a solid defender the same way Guzan is a solid keeper.

Also AVB tried to phase Lamps out of the team, it's only when Meireles started stinking the place out he got back in more regularly. Jose played him at the start if his return because he was better than the alternatives, as soon as that changed (with Matics arrival) he hit the bench.

He could/would be dropped but only because Coentrao or a player like him would have cost a lot of money in the first place to bring in and already come with big reputation. You want to protect your big investment, big reputation and the perception of a player influenced by the hype machine does make a significant difference.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

To be honest hes been the most reliable English LB in the league so far this season (Baines as good as he is going forward is the most overrated defensive player on the go) and Southampton also have got Clyne who has been the most reliable English RB in the league at the moment.... even though none of them are in the England team, which is ridiculous given that John Stones has started at RB for England.

I was speaking to a mate of mines who is a Southampton fan and his family who are Southampton fans and they have said that as gutted as they were to see Shaw go they reckon Bertrand has been just as good if not better so far this season and they also think Tadic is a better footballer than Lallana and Pelle much better than Lambert. I think we will sell Ryan at the end of this season to Southampton for the £10M or £12M or whatever it is and honestly I think that is a good deal on both halves. We will generate a big fee for someone who cost £150k or whatever it was when we got him at a young age where as Southampton get a pretty experienced player who has played in a Champions League final, the Premier League and also the Europa League.