🇷🇸 Nemanja Matic

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Mourinho thinks he's our best player so far combined with Ivanovic - which is unfair and to be quite honest, not even true.

He had an average first half against Leicester, he was poor piss defending in the first half against Everton where I counted four times he gave the ball away under pressure, in our half, and initiated Everton attacks.

And then I thought, maybe we could sub him, but the option is Mikel and while I'm sure Mikel wouldn't make the same mistakes, he wouldn't have scored that goal either (although I would never say he would assist Costa with a back heel either, and well, he did it).

His natural substitute is Ramires - or could have been Marco (I wish it was Marco in all honesty), but the matches Ramires is playing, we're left with Mikel. So in the end it was good he played the 90 minutes not only because of the goal, but because when things got tough before the fifth and sixth goals, he actually stepped up.

He's one of the reasons our defense is conceding so much imo. He isn't protecting them as he did last season and we were a oil machine defensively last season because every guy played their part. He's not the only problem, but he's causing us a problem but helping to create the abyss between our midfield and defense - which is one of our major problems this start of season imo.

I thought that was weird too but I think Jose was more just making a point about the fitness levels of players who went to the world cup versus player who did not.

[Barbara 15,149]

Do I realy read people want to sub Matic...

Mikel will do well in less important games while Matic, engine as he is can probably play more games per season than any other player in our team atm.

His form will also get better for sure.

so a player can't have a bad day in the office and be subbed out during the match?

He had an awful first half, if we have a better replacement (as Ramires was already playing) I'm positive we would have subbed him - or maybe Mourinho would take the risk and hope for him to reach form, but no player is infallible and having bad matches is part of the job.

Only in TalkChelsea this would seem like a foreign concept.

[Polo7 3,496]

so a player can't have a bad day in the office and be subbed out during the match?

He had an awful first half, if we have a better replacement (as Ramires was already playing) I'm positive we would have subbed him - or maybe Mourinho would take the risk and hope for him to reach form, but no player is infallible and having bad matches is part of the job.

Only in TalkChelsea this would seem like a foreign concept.

How can you single out matic during the Everton match? The whole team defended badly. Mistakes were made by almost every player.

[Barbara 15,149]

How can you single out matic during the Everton match? The whole team defended badly. Mistakes were made by almost every player.

I'm saying in the first half he had a horrible match, it has nothing to do with how the team defended, how many goals we conceded, nothing. He had a bad first half, but couldn't be subbed because either Mourinho is giving him time to regain form (although according to Mourinho himself he's our best player of the season alongside Iva - which honestly makes no sense, unless it's in the physical aspect as Choulo suggested) or he didn't see a better option in our bench...

Everyone with two eyes could see how he was individually bad, technically poor and misplacing too many passes without being effective pressing. He only improved in the last 20 minutes or so of the match. What I'm saying here has nothing to do with how the team defended through the match and the goals conceded, I'm not singling out anyone, I'm pointing one player had a terrible first half and in other scenario would probably be subbed off.

I'm astonished as people in this forum get shocked now by the suggestion of a player having a bad match being subbed out in said match. I guess the football rules changed and I missed the memo? Aren't substitutions during a match allowed anymore? Can't players having a bad day be subbed? I guess those became foreign concepts around here because I only said he could have been subbed out and people are reacting as if I said we should give him a few weeks in the bench or that it was his fault we conceded three goals... talk about overreaction.

I've been clear on my opinion about it, if people want to interpret it any other way, be my guesses, I won't be arsed to keep answering the obvious though. I think he could have been subbed, you disagree, we move on, but don't make it into something I did not.

[Polo7 3,496]

I'm saying in the first half he had a horrible match, it has nothing to do with how the team defended, how many goals we conceded, nothing. He had a bad first half, but couldn't be subbed because either Mourinho is giving him time to regain form (although according to Mourinho himself he's our best player of the season alongside Iva - which honestly makes no sense, unless it's in the physical aspect as Choulo suggested) or he didn't see a better option in our bench...

Everyone with two eyes could see how he was individually bad, technically poor and misplacing too many passes without being effective pressing. He only improved in the last 20 minutes or so of the match. What I'm saying here has nothing to do with how the team defended through the match and the goals conceded, I'm not singling out anyone, I'm pointing one player had a terrible first half and in other scenario would probably be subbed off.

I'm astonished as people in this forum get shocked now by the suggestion of a player having a bad match being subbed out in said match. I guess the football rules changed and I missed the memo? Aren't substitutions during a match allowed anymore? Can't players having a bad day be subbed? I guess those became foreign concepts around here because I only said he could have been subbed out and people are reacting as if I said we should give him a few weeks in the bench or that it was his fault we conceded three goals... talk about overreaction.

I've been clear on my opinion about it, if people want to interpret it any other way, be my guesses, I won't be arsed to keep answering the obvious though. I think he could have been subbed, you disagree, we move on, but don't make it into something I did not.

Ok but Oscar clearly had a terrible first half against Leicester but you defended him. If you are going to pick out Matic's performance against Everton then how can you defend Oscars shoddy performances for club and country in 2014?

[communicate 2,703]

I'm saying in the first half he had a horrible match, it has nothing to do with how the team defended, how many goals we conceded, nothing. He had a bad first half, but couldn't be subbed because either Mourinho is giving him time to regain form (although according to Mourinho himself he's our best player of the season alongside Iva - which honestly makes no sense, unless it's in the physical aspect as Choulo suggested) or he didn't see a better option in our bench...

Everyone with two eyes could see how he was individually bad, technically poor and misplacing too many passes without being effective pressing. He only improved in the last 20 minutes or so of the match. What I'm saying here has nothing to do with how the team defended through the match and the goals conceded, I'm not singling out anyone, I'm pointing one player had a terrible first half and in other scenario would probably be subbed off.

I'm astonished as people in this forum get shocked now by the suggestion of a player having a bad match being subbed out in said match. I guess the football rules changed and I missed the memo? Aren't substitutions during a match allowed anymore? Can't players having a bad day be subbed? I guess those became foreign concepts around here because I only said he could have been subbed out and people are reacting as if I said we should give him a few weeks in the bench or that it was his fault we conceded three goals... talk about overreaction.

I've been clear on my opinion about it, if people want to interpret it any other way, be my guesses, I won't be arsed to keep answering the obvious though. I think he could have been subbed, you disagree, we move on, but don't make it into something I did not.

I don't think his passing is the problem. I think he was just being dragged out of position multiple times. Everton player movement was fantastic.

Naismith (I think it was naismith, need to watch the game again) drag Matic out of position multiple times. We were exposed. I have to give everton player a lot of credit, their movement was fantastic.

[Barbara 15,149]

Ok but Oscar clearly had a terrible first half against Leicester but you defended him. If you are going to pick out Matic's performance against Everton then how can you defend Oscars shoddy performances for club and country in 2014?

LOL

First of all, I didn't defend Oscar's first half ONCE because I said a THOUSAND times I didn't see the first half, how could I defend a player I haven't watched? What I said a couple times was that everyone was saying the whole team was bad, so people nitpicking on Oscar were just the usual suspects. That I said... Then I watched the second half and said he was our best player tied with Iva in my opinion. Get your facts straight before sprouting bullshit.

Can you conceive there's a difference between Leicester playing away and Everton playing home or in your head is the same situation? He was setting up Everton's attacks in the first, was that what Oscar was doing? He was giving the ball to a powerful Leicester side and threatening Courtois? Also, maybe if I had watched the Leicester first half I would have advocated for an Oscar sub if I thought that it would have improved us, I've asked him to be subbed out many times before... as I didn't watch, I couldn't speak.

Seriously, when did the level of comprehension on this forum dropped so much? People can't read, can't understand and make up things... I don't have patience for stupidity, never had and never will.

I don't think his passing is the problem. I think he was just being dragged out of position multiple times. Everton player movement was fantastic.

Naismith (I think it was naismith, need to watch the game again) drag Matic out of position multiple times. We were exposed. I have to give everton player a lot of credit, their movement was fantastic.

I think our midfield has issues controlling the tempo and that was general, Matic, Cesc and Ramires. We struggled a bit positioning and covering the defense as you pointed. But Matic was technically having a bad match. As I said watching the match live, I counted four Everton attacks started by him misplacing a pass or giving in under pressure. We were used to Matic being the machine he's always been, so it was eye-catching for me. He improved slightly in the second and had some amazing last 20 minutes. But I agree with your point too... Everton midfield moved smartly and made our job harder (no way comparable to Leicester playing away... but people will compare the two situations anyway).

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I'm astonished as people in this forum get shocked now by the suggestion of a player having a bad match being subbed out in said match.

Honestly, I'm bewildered that you still get astonished by the things that the people on this forum are shocked by

[Barbara 15,149]

Honestly, I'm bewildered that you still get astonished by the things that the people on this forum are shocked by

And it hurts, you're absolutely right, Chou, as usual

I'm the idiot here

[communicate 2,703]

LOL

First of all, I didn't defend Oscar's first half ONCE because I said a THOUSAND times I didn't see the first half, how could I defend a player I haven't watched? What I said a couple times was that everyone was saying the whole team was bad, so people nitpicking on Oscar were just the usual suspects. That I said... Then I watched the second half and said he was our best player tied with Iva in my opinion. Get your facts straight before sprouting bullshit.

Can you conceive there's a difference between Leicester playing away and Everton playing home or in your head is the same situation? He was setting up Everton's attacks in the first, was that what Oscar was doing? He was giving the ball to a powerful Leicester side and threatening Courtois? Also, maybe if I had watched the Leicester first half I would have advocated for an Oscar sub if I thought that it would have improved us, I've asked him to be subbed out many times before... as I didn't watch, I couldn't speak.

Seriously, when did the level of comprehension on this forum dropped so much? People can't read, can't understand and make up things... I don't have patience for stupidity, never had and never will.

I think our midfield has issues controlling the tempo and that was general, Matic, Cesc and Ramires. We struggled a bit positioning and covering the defense as you pointed. But Matic was technically having a bad match. As I said watching the match live, I counted four Everton attacks started by him misplacing a pass or giving in under pressure. We were used to Matic being the machine he's always been, so it was eye-catching for me. He improved slightly in the second and had some amazing last 20 minutes. But I agree with your point too... Everton midfield moved smartly and made our job harder (no way comparable to Leicester playing away... but people will compare the two situations anyway).

Agree, btw we miss oscar in this game, I was surprised when oscar did not come in for Fabregas in the 2nd half then somebody told me he was injured.

This game expose fabregas a little bit, he is brilliant offensively but kinda suspect at defending

[CHOULO19 24,332]

And it hurts, you're absolutely right, Chou, as usual

I'm the idiot here

Actually I was just playing on the synonyms and half expecting Alex to come up with some ridiculous vocab word I've never heard of!

I would never even attempt to suggest something like that!

[Barbara 15,149]

Actually I was just playing on the synonyms and half expecting Alex to come up with some ridiculous vocab word I've never heard of!

I would never even attempt to suggest something like that!

I know you didn't suggest I'm an idiot (that I concluded all by my awesome self), but you were right, it's bewildering to be astonished by what shocks people here. I'm perplexed I haven't noticed it til then how the basic can still baffle some.

Now top that

[The only place to be 11,313]

He's one of the reasons our defense is conceding so much imo. He isn't protecting them as he did last season and we were a oil machine defensively last season because every guy played their part. He's not the only problem, but he's causing us a problem but helping to create the abyss between our midfield and defense - which is one of our major problems this start of season imo.

He's the reason our defence is conceding so much.

He's the reason. Our defence. Is conceding. So much.

Matic is responsible for our defence letting in so many goals.

After three matches. Where we've kept one clean sheet and conceded a great goal at Burnley, we're conceding 'so much'.

Fuck me .

We conceded 3 goals against Everton, lost the midfield battle, struggled to use possession effectively for most of the first half in a way we didn't in the first two games. Why is that? What changes were made? Oh right, Ramires came in, had 68% passing accuracy, was caught out of position numerous times but you thought Matic (our most important midfield player) could be replaced?

Matic doesn't get replaced. Matic has started every league game since he came to the club. He's not quite at his dominating best yet but we're playing a new style of football and it takes time. Matic is not the issue. Ramires, who has been the issue many, many times previously is still the issue.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I know you didn't suggest I'm an idiot (that I concluded all by my awesome self), but you were right, it's bewildering to be astonished by what shocks people here. I'm perplexed I haven't noticed it til then how the basic can still baffle some.

Now top that

I forfeit!

[pWneR 230]

What I noticed is that Ramires and Fabregas rush to much in attack, Fabregas was behind Costa and Ramires was playing basically as second right winger, leaving Matić alone as defensive mid.

[Barbara 15,149]

He's the reason our defence is conceding so much.

He's the reason. Our defence. Is conceding. So much.

Matic is responsible for our defence letting in so many goals.

After three matches. Where we've kept one clean sheet and conceded a great goal at Burnley, we're conceding 'so much'.

Fuck me .

We conceded 3 goals against Everton, lost the midfield battle, struggled to use possession effectively for most of the first half in a way we didn't in the first two games. Why is that? What changes were made? Oh right, Ramires came in, had 68% passing accuracy, was caught out of position numerous times but you thought Matic (our most important midfield player) could be replaced?

Matic doesn't get replaced. Matic has started every league game since he came to the club. He's not quite at his dominating best yet but we're playing a new style of football and it takes time. Matic is not the issue. Ramires, who has been the issue many, many times previously is still the issue.

tbh II meant it the other way around. We were solid as rock because among other things he was a solid protection, the moment he flutters, so does the defense imo. He's the one player that made us solid, if he starts producing less, we suffer... We have slow CBs, protecting them is important.

I didn't mean like he's villain, I meant more like he's thermometer, the guy that made a difference when we're at the top, if he isn't on his best, we suffer. If you read ALL my posts about our shaky defense I keep saying I'm not concerned yet, as I think the players aren't there yet shape wise, that Mourinho will make some positioning adjustments now that we changed our style to a more offensive approach... etc. You can't find one post of mine saying our defense is a major concern of mine. I keep stressing I think it's due to physical fitness and the change to a different style - both things which demand a few weeks. I said I'll start be concerned if by the end of September we're still making the same stupid mistakes.

I also agree he can't get replaced, I said that in the very first post, when I look to the bench Mikel offers something similar defensively, but the rest can't be comparable and I don't expect a DM to only offer tackles and pressing. He also offers transition, quality passing and he is a thousand years ahead in terms of vision.

By the defense conceding too much, I'm taking into account the feeling we had since pre-season, while I'm one of those people that believe PS is only for fitness, it left a feeling about the defense, that carried on through the regular season. We owe it to Courtois to have had a clean sheet against Leicester. He made two brilliant saves when 0x0.

I know a few people here shared the same feeling that now we don't feel like we won't concede, but we go through the match afraid that maybe we will. Last season we felt like leaking our defense was a top level task...

And then I thought, maybe we could sub him, but the option is Mikel and while I'm sure Mikel wouldn't make the same mistakes, he wouldn't have scored that goal either (although I would never say he would assist Costa with a back heel either, and well, he did it).

so a player can't have a bad day in the office and be subbed out during the match?

He had an awful first half, if we have a better replacement (as Ramires was already playing) I'm positive we would have subbed him - or maybe Mourinho would take the risk and hope for him to reach form, but no player is infallible and having bad matches is part of the job.

Only in TalkChelsea this would seem like a foreign concept.

Also I'm quoting my two posts. First, I said maybe because then I realized we couldn't bring Ramires, as Ramires was already playing and Mikel would only do half of the job.

Then in a subsequent post I made a condition: if we have a better replacement compared to Mikel (should have been HAD to be syntax correct) we would have brought this nonexistent player.

We don't have a replacement for him, yesterday I liked the post below mine stating as much. I thought he could have been subbed, unlike what Mourinho - or some of you maybe - think, I don't think he's up there in form with Iva. He's been making mistakes he usually doesn't, which I can only credit to physical fitness. He improves our defense, and if he's having bad match, he exposes the defenders more than usual. I didn't blame the goals on him directly - I think he was bad positioned in one of them though, but I'm considering his slow start one of the reasons for our defense shaky moments. Even against Leicester - when we had a clean sheet - we had brainfart moments... In the very post you quoted, I finish the sentence saying I don't blame him alone, I think we have a few problems, but one of the major problems so far is the huge space between defense and midfield. Do you disagree about that space existing? Who should be filling said space? Against Leicester the space was ever bigger... I'm not crucifying the guy, but I understand why you would think that based on the sentence you highlighted alone... the thing is, my post had many sentences, not only that one. So in the context I think his slow start is exposing our defense and that is one of the causes of our shaky defending at the moment. And he had a bad first half, period.

[Polo7 3,496]

Is it even possible to get a short and concise reply? Cant be bothered reading a wall of text.

[Barbara 15,149]

Is it even possible to get a short and concise reply? Cant be bothered reading a wall of text.

so don't.

You know what works even better? The ignore function. I could tell you to read a book instead, but I guess that won't work.

[Special Juan 28,141]

Is it even possible to get a short and concise reply? Cant be bothered reading a wall of text.

Couldn't be anymore condescending if you tried.

The sign out button is top right if you need it.

[DH1988 1,348]

As I said I do worry for Matic due to his such high form last season but we are winning games whilst a few members of the team are underperforming - the best thing about this is that last year we would probably have lost the last two games or drawn them.

Hopefully its rust and he can shake it off or its getting used to a less stable formation.