No.10 Role

[Cech's helmet 220]

The thing with Mourinho is he sometimes talks BS. he says we want to play a game where we keep possession, be the dominant team etc. but why did we park the bus vs Bayern/Man utd? we barely played football vs Bayern and United. the only time we played some nice football was the first 20 minutes vs Hull. this team is still the same. we don't have center midfielders who can control the match. we have defenders like Luiz and Cahill passing the ball from the back to our forwards, when our center midfielders should be doing that. Lampard/Ramires/Mikel/Essien are all woeful.

Oscar should be CM. Mata should be no10. his first touch allows him to play with his back behind the goal. he can keep the ball in tight spaces, Oscar loses possession a lot, because hes simply nowhere near Hazard and Mata in terms of controlling the ball and keeping it in his feet. he is at his best when he has space. he's not going to create that bit of magic that Mata and Hazard can do.

[FabHazard 655]

The thing with Mourinho is he sometimes talks BS. he says we want to play a game where we keep possession, be the dominant team etc. but why did we park the bus vs Bayern/Man utd? we barely played football vs Bayern and United. the only time we played some nice football was the first 20 minutes vs Hull. this team is still the same. we don't have center midfielders who can control the match. we have defenders like Luiz and Cahill passing the ball from the back to our forwards, when our center midfielders should be doing that. Lampard/Ramires/Mikel/Essien are all woeful.

Oscar should be CM. Mata should be no10. his first touch allows him to play with his back behind the goal. he can keep the ball in tight spaces, Oscar loses possession a lot, because hes simply nowhere near Hazard and Mata in terms of controlling the ball and keeping it in his feet. he is at his best when he has space. he's not going to create that bit of magic that Mata and Hazard can do.

I agree with you .Absolutely correct

[Barbara 15,149]

mata is a nice guy, im sure he'll develop his style like mourinho wants for the good of the team. There is a reason why delbosque doesnt like him in spain and im sure he'll want to rectify his game style to get in.

@barbara, why dont people from spain rate mata highly, ive met some of them and they even see carzola and silva ahead of him which is weird...

I have no idea... I mean, I feel here he's overrated and there he's underrated. I see him somewhere in the middle of both things.

He's a really good guy, but I guess he doesn't fit VdB philosophy much because he's objective, practical and lethal, in Spain they prefer the never ending "too-much-sex-for-few-orgasms" style of football known as annoying tikitaka. Mata doesn't beat about the bush... he simply does it. They don't like this directness I guess. They're crazy.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I have no idea... I mean, I feel here he's overrated and there he's underrated. I see him somewhere in the middle of both things.

He's a really good guy, but I guess he doesn't fit VdB philosophy much because he's objective, practical and lethal, in Spain they prefer the never ending "too-much-sex-for-few-orgasms" style of football known as annoying tikitaka. Mata doesn't beat about the bush... he simply does it. They don't like this directness I guess. They're crazy.

The problem people dont understand is that, benitez and mourinho use completely different systems.

Benitez used more of 4-4-1-1 with mata behind torres. This meant that mata never needed to defend much since 4 people were directly behind him.

But now Mourinho uses 4-2-1-3 where the AM is closer to the pivot than the wingers. This meas that the AM have to defend more because they are needed to keep the midfield compact.

What do people want mourinho to do? Do they want him to change his tactics to benitez own because it suits mata?

All mourinho wants is for mata to adjust to the new tactics. And i know he said this in public to motivate mata to play better, he used it on benzema and it worked a lot.

[Badboy 1,526]

Mourinho doesn't like mata purely because he doesn't dribble and take the ball on himself ever. I'm shocked people in this thread have missed that out. I honestly think that is more the problem then defensive work. A cam has to have a certain level of ''go it alone'' in certain situations and mata hasnt got that. Mata is the superior player because his passing and vision alone is far greater then that of the brazilian ! Mourinho believes you can get away with playing a lazy player like deco and Wesley in slower more technical leagues but not the premier league.

[Cech's helmet 220]

The problem people dont understand is that, benitez and mourinho use completely different systems.

Benitez used more of 4-4-1-1 with mata behind torres. This meant that mata never needed to defend much since 4 people were directly behind him.

But now Mourinho uses 4-2-1-3 where the AM is closer to the pivot than the wingers. This meas that the AM have to defend more because they are needed to keep the midfield compact.

What do people want mourinho to do? Do they want him to change his tactics to benitez own because it suits mata?

All mourinho wants is for mata to adjust to the new tactics. And i know he said this in public to motivate mata to play better, he used it on benzema and it worked a lot.

Why should our best player for the last 2 seasons be "adjusting" his game? I think we have more problems in this team than "Mata not tracking back" why change what's not broken? he didn't need to touch the Oscar/Hazard/Mata trio. Jose needs to go on that training pitch and tell Mikel how to shoot a football, tell Torres how to control a football, tell Terry to get faster, tell Luiz to be more disciplined and tell Ramires how to pass a ball if he's going to go and tell a player who scored and assisted half of our goals last year to adjust to these "new tactics"

[Aliba 1]

I have no idea... I mean, I feel here he's overrated and there he's underrated. I see him somewhere in the middle of both things.

He's a really good guy, but I guess he doesn't fit VdB philosophy much because he's objective, practical and lethal, in Spain they prefer the never ending "too-much-sex-for-few-orgasms" style of football known as annoying tikitaka. Mata doesn't beat about the bush... he simply does it. They don't like this directness I guess. They're crazy.

Absolutely spot on!

[Cech's helmet 220]

You have to be one bloody idiot if you think Mata is going to be a right winger whose going to dribble against fullbacks and somehow score. he can't do that. Mata is not Hazard, Mata has no pace at all. he's all about passing, finishing and creativity. he's not a winger, he doesn't have the stamina to track back. Oscar does because Oscar used to play as a CM with Internacional. I don't like seeing Oscar on the right and so does Mourinho. so.. stick him in midfield along Ramires ffs.

Hazard-Mata-Willian

Ramires-Oscar

If Jose for once stops being so daft and tries this, then maybe we wouldn't be sitting here trying to fix things that didn't need to be fixed.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Why should our best player for the last 2 seasons be "adjusting" his game? I think we have more problems in this team than "Mata not tracking back" why change what's not broken? he didn't need to touch the Oscar/Hazard/Mata trio. Jose needs to go on that training pitch and tell Mikel how to shoot a football, tell Torres how to control a football, tell Terry to get faster, tell Luiz to be more disciplined and tell Ramires how to pass a ball if he's going to go and tell a player who scored and assisted half of our goals last year to adjust to these "new tactics"

Because he was the best player in a 4-4-1-1 system under benitez. Where he never needed to defend so it suited his attacking play well.

But now, we have a new coach who plays a 4-2-1-3 system. Because of this system, anyone in the middle will be closer to the pivot. Mata is not used to that yet, but he'll soon adapt to it.

Mourinho doesnt need to play benitez style because it suits mata, mata just has to adapt to mourinho's system and he will do it soon.

[Cech's helmet 220]

Because he was the best player in a 4-4-1-1 system under benitez. Where he never needed to defend so it suited his attacking play well.

But now, we have a new coach who plays a 4-2-1-3 system. Because of this system, anyone in the middle will be closer to the pivot. Mata is not used to that yet, but he'll soon adapt to it.

Mourinho doesnt need to play benitez style because it suits mata, mata just has to adapt to mourinho's system and he will do it soon.

I'm trying really hard to figure out what you mean here .. What do you mean we used to play 4-4-1-1 ? this is exactly like the 4-2-1-3........... you're getting something wrong here and I'm not sure how you're projecting this.

We played 4-2-3-1 under Rafa. the one you're saying is exactly the same thing dude. Mourinho played the 4-2-3-1 with Inter and Real. it's the same formation dude. I think you've been playing a lot of Football manager or Fifa to think the wingers are much closer to the goal or something. its the same thing on the pitch.

It's a common formation this, you play with a no10 (mata) with 2 side midfielders/wingers (hazard, oscar) and 2 center midfielders (lamps, ramires)

With Inter.

no10: Sneidjer

Wingers/side midfielders: Etoo/ pandev

CM: Cambiasso/ thiago motta

With Real:

no10: ozil

wingers/side midfielders: ronaldo/ di maria

CM: Khedira/ xabi alonso

Chelsea: under Benitez

no10: Mata

side midfielders/wingers: Hazard/oscar

CM: lampard/ramires

[coolhead23 1,147]

With Jose's saying Oscar is his no 10 and Mata to move as wide player ... I guess there is no debate and assumption left

Is this Jose's way of telling Mata that he needs to put down his transfer request?

[xPetrCechx 13,578]

You have to be one bloody idiot if you think Mata is going to be a right winger whose going to dribble against fullbacks and somehow score. he can't do that. Mata is not Hazard, Mata has no pace at all. he's all about passing, finishing and creativity. he's not a winger, he doesn't have the stamina to track back. Oscar does because Oscar used to play as a CM with Internacional. I don't like seeing Oscar on the right and so does Mourinho. so.. stick him in midfield along Ramires ffs.

Hazard-Mata-Willian

Ramires-Oscar

If Jose for once stops being so daft and tries this, then maybe we wouldn't be sitting here trying to fix things that didn't need to be fixed.

Worth a try...

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I'm trying really hard to figure out what you mean here .. What do you mean we used to play 4-4-1-1 ? this is exactly like the 4-2-1-3........... you're getting something wrong here and I'm not sure how you're projecting this.

We played 4-2-3-1 under Rafa. the one you're saying is exactly the same thing dude. Mourinho played the 4-2-3-1 with Inter and Real. it's the same formation dude. I think you've been playing a lot of Football manager or Fifa to think the wingers are much closer to the goal or something. its the same thing on the pitch.

It's a common formation this, you play with a no10 (mata) with 2 side midfielders/wingers (hazard, oscar) and 2 center midfielders (lamps, ramires)

With Inter.

no10: Sneidjer

Wingers/side midfielders: Etoo/ pandev

CM: Cambiasso/ thiago motta

With Real:

no10: ozil

wingers/side midfielders: ronaldo/ di maria

CM: Khedira/ xabi alonso

Chelsea: under Benitez

no10: Mata

side midfielders/wingers: Hazard/oscar

CM: lampard/ramires

your not understanding me at all.

When you watch our games last season under benitez, 4-2-3-1 becomes 4-4-1-1 when we were defending

mikel - ramires

oscar - mata - hazard

torres

became this when defending

oscar - mikel - ramires - hazard

mata

Torres

Which meant mata didnt defend more since oscar and hazard play deeper, with mata just high up with torres.

Now mourinho wants us to look like this when defending

Mikel - ramires

mata

Schurrle hazard

Torres

Do you see the difference, with benitez tracking the wingers on the flanks is crucial but with mourinho dominating the center is more crucial

So its the same formation but different tactics

[Cech's helmet 220]

your not understanding me at all.

When you watch our games last season under benitez, 4-2-3-1 becomes 4-4-1-1 when we were defending

mikel - ramires

oscar - mata - hazard

torres

became this when defending

oscar - mikel - ramires - hazard

mata

Torres

Which meant mata didnt defend more since oscar and hazard play deeper, with mata just high up with torres.

Now mourinho wants us to look like this when defending

Mikel - ramires

mata

Schurrle hazard

Torres

Do you see the difference, with benitez tracking the wingers on the flanks is crucial but with mourinho dominating the center is more crucial

So its the same formation but different tactics

Lol how do you know how Mourinho wants us to look like when we are defending? there really isn't no difference. its the same formation yeah, the tactics are all the same. the wingers track back to make it look like the 4-4-1-1. you're just putting players in a different position (further up/further down), when on the pitch its always going to transform to the 4-4-1-1

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Against teams that park the bus i would start Oscar in the pivot and Mata as the CAM.That is the only way we can fit both of them in our team and i think its worth a try.Against the best teams though Oscar starts as the CAM for me.

[manpe 10,861]

Mata, I absolutely love the guy and he's done more for the club than Oscar has, snatching up deserved back-to-back player of the year awards. It's the result now of overstacking players on one position. Oscar is better defensively, but Mata is better at everything on the attacking front.

[patrick 1]

4-1-4-1

[edetarod 2,155]

Mata for games like Norwich at home

Oscar for games like Liverpool away

[pgleo 90]

I know Mata is a better CAM and is more creative than Oscar but I don't want a spectacular Mata with incredible goals and assists carrying the whole team to win us "Europa League" and barely making it to top 4. I want a spectacular team challenging the prem league (hopefully winning it) and making it to the semis of Champs league at least every season. We definitely need a new system and it needs time. This new system fits Oscar, immense hard worker for the team, as I see things and he hasn't disappointed. So, my vote goes to Oscar. Mata hopefully adapts and plays well soon.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

When Mata and Silva were both at Valencia, they interchanged between the LM and CAM roles with regularity. I don't see why Oscar and Mata can't learn to do the same now. That sort of movement and dynamism would make us a lot more unpredictable as an attacking unit. At the minute all the defence has to do is swamp Oscar, or any other player operating centrally. We have absolutely no width at all.