Willian

[Vesper 28,674]

21 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Like Sats above pointed out, you can't sell him. His value is negative because of the wages you posted. All we can do is move him while still paying for his high wages, which does not make a whole lot of sense either.

Welcome to the club - wanted mikel sold for years and nothing. Heard it all: plays a role, does a job, dependable, etc... You will hear all that before DD is gone one way or another.

No, considering Barkley and RLF, signing DD, and especially Bakayoko, did not make much sense to me either, but it did to some folks who happen to call the shots at chelsea FC.

Whoever called the shots on Drinkwater is a complete football incompetent and should be sacked on that alone. Ridiculously stupid buy. Probably worst in club history, given the cost, as he literally was a known inferior talent with no upside potential ( unlike many other shit buys such as Bakayoko, Morata, etc).

£70m plus literally down the shitter when wages, fees, insurance, etc. are factored in.

I will never back down on this. HORRIFIC business. Typical of our oft-times inept board. 

[quickpassnmove 924]

12 hours ago, Vesper said:

Thauvin is far from my main choice. I don't think he is a bad as some here think. I do fully believe in Leon Bailey. IMHO (and a plethora of others) we do need to upgrade from Willian. If (for some reason) we sold Pedro I suppose I could live with Willian as the backup, but given how tight the board is with cash (other than bollocksed up Courtois deal forcing a huge spend on Kepa) it just seemed madness to turn down £65m for a 30yo winger who (again in my humble opinion) is simply not good enough and doesn't fit the Sarriball system well. He also will soon spiral downwards due to age, and I think it madness to give him an extension until he is 33 to 35.

I also have (obviously) issues with his temperament. I think he is one of the biggest weaknesses we have.

I just hope the board finally starts to clear out some of the deadwood so we can fund buying some much needed upgrades (Striker, RW being the two biggest). We can surely start with unloading 2 horrific buys, Bakayoko and the mind-numbingly stupid purchase of Drinkwater. We also have to deal with the probable Kovacic (RM pulling him back) then Hazard/CHO (if they dont renew) nightmares.

Seems to me that the Argentine striker for Leon's side in Germany is the better all-around finisher.

I don't really know what Sarri thinks of a player like Gabbiadini, but he is supposed to have a GREAT left foot for shooting and I'm sure that he's not all that expensive. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

19 hours ago, LAM09 said:

 

 

More like Pedro will regain his place. Willian on form is Hazard on a off day.

 

That’s a succinct and easy to read statement but it isn’t right. It was the amazing run of form Williian showed last season, including the Barcelona game, that prompted the Catalans to take an interest in him. What Willian did during that spell was a match for anything Eden produces.

Maintaining that level is Willian’s problem. That’s why I have been saying for several years that if we ever become the team we’d like to be, Willian won’t be in it. He does not deserve the vitriol being poured out in some posts here however. If he’s not as good as we’d like him to be that’s not his fault. People’s real issue is that our squad is not strong enough. If it was, Willian would play less and the problem would go away. If we have to be angry then let’s at least pick the right target for that anger.

As for his comment, it’s perfectly natural. Any father who does not wish he could always to be home before his kids’ bedtime is an idiot. On the other hand, any father who is not willing to put his personal preferences aside in order to put bread on the table for his kids does not deserve them. Anyone heard any rumours about Willian actually NOT turning up for afternoon training? Don’t be so trigger happy people. 

[Vesper 28,674]

45 minutes ago, quickpassnmove said:

Seems to me that the Argentine striker for Leon's side in Germany is the better all-around finisher.

I don't really know what Sarri thinks of a player like Gabbiadini, but he is supposed to have a GREAT left foot for shooting and I'm sure that he's not all that expensive. 

Lucas Alario. Yes, I have listed him as a lower option on a lot of posts. The problem is, Bayer Leverkusen has so many players I really rate and want and they will never just roll over and strip their team.

RW Bailey (absolute priority)

AMF Kai Havertz (IMHO best under 22yo AMF in world atm)

CB Jonathan Tah (beast, 1.95m and built like a tank, but still pacey)

CF Lucas Alario

LB Wendell (possible Alonso replacement (although Junior Firpo is by far my number one choice), I rate him over the post injury Emerson that I have seen)

CB Panagiotis Retsos (20yo Greek with huge upside)

LW Julian Brandt

LW Paulinho (18yo Brasilian potential superstar)

And they just sold one of my favourite RB's, Benjamin Henrichs (superior to Zappacosta) to Monaco and Emenalo for only £18m.

Bayer is by far the 'non huge' team I would most love to plunder the roster of. Absolutely loaded with young WC talent. I will settle for Bailey as a start. Settle is hardly the right word, as I think he (along with a truly WC striker (Dybala and Icardi are probably pipe dreams, but Piątek is really looking crazy good, 14 goals in 8 games) instantly would make us twice as dangerous.

 

[quickpassnmove 924]

26 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Lucas Alario. Yes, I have listed him as a lower option on a lot of posts. The problem is, Bayer Leverkusen has so many players I really rate and want and they will never just roll over and strip their team.

RW Bailey (absolute priority)

AMF Kai Havertz (IMHO best under 22yo AMF in world atm)

CB Jonathan Tah (beast, 1.95m and built like a tank, but still pacey)

CF Lucas Alario

LB Wendell (possible Alonso replacement (although Junior Firpo is by far my number one choice), I rate him over the post injury Emerson that I have seen)

CB Panagiotis Retsos (20yo Greek with huge upside)

LW Julian Brandt

LW Paulinho (18yo Brasilian potential superstar)

And they just sold one of my favourite RB's, Benjamin Henrichs (superior to Zappacosta) to Monaco and Emenalo for only £18m.

Bayer is by far the 'non huge' team I would most love to plunder the roster of. Absolutely loaded with young WC talent. I will settle for Bailey as a start. Settle is hardly the right word, as I think he (along with a truly WC striker (Dybala and Icardi are probably pipe dreams, but Piątek is really looking crazy good, 14 goals in 8 games) instantly would make us twice as dangerous.

 

yeah, I don't know how to rate the players because I've spent so little time watching football in the past years plus this season. I just want us to get someone how is a deadeye shooter and Alario has that reputation even if he doesn't have Bailey's speed/strength. We simply don't have goals in our squad. Think we'll need some new fullbacks and another centre back soon enough, but the goals problem is probably the most paramount thing near-term.

Is Belotti off the radar now? 

[Vesper 28,674]

16 minutes ago, quickpassnmove said:

yeah, I don't know how to rate the players because I've spent so little time watching football in the past years plus this season. I just want us to get someone how is a deadeye shooter and Alario has that reputation even if he doesn't have Bailey's speed/strength. We simply don't have goals in our squad. Think we'll need some new fullbacks and another centre back soon enough, but the goals problem is probably the most paramount thing near-term.

Is Belotti off the radar now? 

I put Belotti and Timo Werner on my lists in below Dybala and Icardi (Lewandowski would be 31 if we bought him next summer so too old to sign to a long term deal IMHO) and then Immobile (who wont leave Lazio and is almost too old for a 5 year deal). The problem with both Belotti and Werner is that they will both cost a shit tonne and are still not proven in terms of consistent high level play (especially Belotti who had one great year then regressed, partially due to injury). If Werner has another huge year, Bayern Munich will surely go all out to sign him.

Belotti has 4 goals in 9 games so far, BUT 2 were against a really shit 2nd from bottom of table (will be dead bottom if Livorno wins or draws next match) Serie B Cosenza team in a Coppa Italia cup tie. That means in 8 Serie A games, Belotti has only 2 goals. Morata has 2 league goals in one less game, 7, so Andrea is hardly off to a rocketing start. He only scored 10 league goals last year, 12 three years ago, and only SIX 4 years ago (whilst playing in all 38 league games) for Palermo.

2016/17 (26 league goals, 28 in all comps) sure is starting to look like a fluke. Sorta like Morata's 20 goals 2 years ago for Real Madrid in less than half the minutes a regular starting striker would play.

So, not sold on Belotti atm. Werner probably.

Piątek is so intriguing, just need to see him do it the full year. We may have to go to older, ageing stop gaps such as Džeko or Cavani, etc or really roll the dice and and bring in Anthony Modeste back from China (I am probably only person on this board, maybe all Chels boards, who is even mentioning him, lolol). Watch his goals two year ago for a now (after he left) relegated Köln team. World class.

Flinally, 2 younger options

Maximiliano Gómez -  Celta Vigo

Giovanni Simeone  - Fiorentina (eeek)

Only thing for sure is that if Morata doesn't completely turn for the good, we HAVE to do something. Giroud cannot lead the line to a title,  as we are not remotely close in terms of quality to the French national team. Hazard, Kante, Giroud and now Kepa are the only players we have who would start for them (and 2 already do). Also, Kante on Sarriball Chelsea is a big notch below (so far) Kante as a trad DMF destroyer.

Hope it all works out for us soon.

[lucio 5,418]

when hazard is through on goal and willian tries a reverse ball to barkley

[LAM09 6,732]

That’s a succinct and easy to read statement but it isn’t right. It was the amazing run of form Williian showed last season, including the Barcelona game, that prompted the Catalans to take an interest in him. What Willian did during that spell was a match for anything Eden produces.

Maintaining that level is Willian’s problem. That’s why I have been saying for several years that if we ever become the team we’d like to be, Willian won’t be in it. He does not deserve the vitriol being poured out in some posts here however. If he’s not as good as we’d like him to be that’s not his fault. People’s real issue is that our squad is not strong enough. If it was, Willian would play less and the problem would go away. If we have to be angry then let’s at least pick the right target for that anger.

As for his comment, it’s perfectly natural. Any father who does not wish he could always to be home before his kids’ bedtime is an idiot. On the other hand, any father who is not willing to put his personal preferences aside in order to put bread on the table for his kids does not deserve them. Anyone heard any rumours about Willian actually NOT turning up for afternoon training? Don’t be so trigger happy people. 

 

The comment made is fairly understand, but it doesn't need to be made in public along with his other antics over the summer. He's fortunate to still be here after that as well.

 

Willian shines whenever there's a drop in quality around whilst he is usually cause for complaint when we are on song. People have the right to complain or express there displeasure when a better option is available and more suit to the job at hand.

 

He's underperformed in almost every game so far. As the saying goes, do your talking ON the pitch.

[El P. 1,354]

Having Pedro and Willian as a backup is not much different than having Pedro and Moses/CHO as a backup. Not to mention if we had actually brought someone better for 80 mils (using 65 mils Barca offered for Willian).

Willian has it all in his legs, but has nothing in his head. It was always the case and always will be, hope to see Pedro as soon as possible.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

4 hours ago, LAM09 said:

 

The comment made is fairly understand, but it doesn't need to be made in public along with his other antics over the summer. He's fortunate to still be here after that as well.

 

Willian shines whenever there's a drop in quality around whilst he is usually cause for complaint when we are on song. People have the right to complain or express there displeasure when a better option is available and more suit to the job at hand.

 

He's underperformed in almost every game so far. As the saying goes, do your talking ON the pitch.

People do have a right to express their displeasure. That doesn’t mean they are always right to do it, or in the way that they do. If Willian is playing when there is ‘a better option available’ how is that his fault? How is he to blame when he doesn’t pick the side?

People want a better player than Willian and, since I’ve been saying we need an upgrade for virtually as long as he’s been here, I can’t say they are wrong. I do though insist that it’s not his fault he’s in the squad, and nor is it he fault when he’s selected to play.

Willian’s output varies wildly from outstanding to poor. Unfortunately he doesn’t spend enough time in the ‘outstanding’ zone. He is what he is and we should know what we’re getting from him. Expecting anything different after all this time would be a silly to be honest.

I see nothing wrong with what he said. If anybody takes objection to it then they’re the ones with some explaining to do as far as I’m concerned. Dad would prefer to spend time with daughter before she goes to bed but work commitments mean he can’t. Shock. 

[LAM09 6,732]

 

 

 

People do have a right to express their displeasure. That doesn’t mean they are always right to do it, or in the way that they do. If Willian is playing when there is ‘a better option available’ how is that his fault? How is he to blame when he doesn’t pick the side?

People want a better player than Willian and, since I’ve been saying we need an upgrade for virtually as long as he’s been here, I can’t say they are wrong. I do though insist that it’s not his fault he’s in the squad, and nor is it he fault when he’s selected to play.

Willian’s output varies wildly from outstanding to poor. Unfortunately he doesn’t spend enough time in the ‘outstanding’ zone. He is what he is and we should know what we’re getting from him. Expecting anything different after all this time would be a silly to be honest.

I see nothing wrong with what he said. If anybody takes objection to it then they’re the ones with some explaining to do as far as I’m concerned. Dad would prefer to spend time with daughter before she goes to bed but work commitments mean he can’t. Shock. 

 

No one is disagreeing with that. People are making their feelings know in said player's thread, so him failing to deliver on the pitch is all on him. I don't know why this is being disputed.

 

I'm expecting Cahill or Azpi to come out with the same comments, then. However, they are more classy than that and know what should or shouldn't be said publicly.

 

He could learn a thing or two from the players around him.

 

[Special Juan 27,419]

The problem right now with him, is he knows he is this sort of in and out utility player, and he's actually behind Pedro in the pecking order IMO.

His consistency levels are what is the problem, it's something that gives MS a problem. He's played under managers that allow him time to fuck about on the ball, Sarri doesn't, he wants it moving all the time.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

5 hours ago, LAM09 said:

 

 

 

 

 

No one is disagreeing with that. People are making their feelings know in said player's thread, so him failing to deliver on the pitch is all on him. I don't know why this is being disputed.

 

I'm expecting Cahill or Azpi to come out with the same comments, then. However, they are more classy than that and know what should or shouldn't be said publicly.

 

He could learn a thing or two from the players around him.

 

If I was selected to play for Chelsea and turned out to be waaayy below the required standard that would be my fault would it? Should I just sit in the dressing room and turn myself into Pele? I am old, and I have arthritis. As a footballer I am now worse than useless. If I find myself in the Chelsea team it's not my fault; it's the fault of whoever it is that picked the team. Any manager who picks Willian has to accept that there is a downside and decide if they want him in the team, warts and all.

Every footballer is inconsistent, every human is for that matter. Better players have a narrower output level toward the high end of their performance spectrum. Willian is different. His range of output is wide and stretches down into the poor zone. Anyone picking him knows, or should know this. If they still pick him then they have to accept responsibility for what he produces. Five years later he isn't going to change. He is what he is.

I don't require that Chelsea players treat me like a toddler. I don't care if they prefer not to train in the afternoon as long as they do turn up for training when required.

[LAM09 6,732]

If I was selected to play for Chelsea and turned out to be waaayy below the required standard that would be my fault would it? Should I just sit in the dressing room and turn myself into Pele? I am old, and I have arthritis. As a footballer I am now worse than useless. If I find myself in the Chelsea team it's not my fault; it's the fault of whoever it is that picked the team. Any manager who picks Willian has to accept that there is a downside and decide if they want him in the team, warts and all. Every footballer is inconsistent, every human is for that matter. Better players have a narrower output level toward the high end of their performance spectrum. Willian is different. His range of output is wide and stretches down into the poor zone. Anyone picking him knows, or should know this. If they still pick him then they have to accept responsibility for what he produces. Five years later he isn't going to change. He is what he is.

I don't require that Chelsea players treat me like a toddler. I don't care if they prefer not to train in the afternoon as long as they do turn up for training when required.

 

No idea how this has gone from him opening his mouth for the countless time to his lack of ability. My original post was solely based on his comments.

 

People can have whatever grievances they want, so I'll leave it at that.

 

 

 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

2 hours ago, LAM09 said:

People can have whatever grievances they want, so I'll leave it at that.

No they can't. If people can make up silly things to feel aggrieved about that's the way to a nonsense world. For example am I allowed to feel aggrieved that Danny D isn't as good as KDB?

 

9 hours ago, LAM09 said:

so him failing to deliver on the pitch is all on him

Is how we, you & I, got to talking about Willian's play. My point being that no, it isn't all on him.

[LAM09 6,732]

No they can't. If people can make up silly things to feel aggrieved about that's the way to a nonsense world. For example am I allowed to feel aggrieved that Danny D isn't as good as KDB?

You could if you wanted to. Just like me getting tired of Willian's antics off the field.

Each to their own

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

9 hours ago, LAM09 said:

 

 

You could if you wanted to. Just like me getting tired of Willian's antics off the field.

Each to their own

 

No. People who are wrong, who are thinking in the wrong way need to told the truth.

If I were to blame double D because he's not as good as KDB I hope one of my friends on here would patiently explain to me that I'm an idiot. Pretending that all ideas are equally valid leads to crazy situations such as  Donald Trump in The White House. Thinking, if you wish, that Danny D is a better player than KDB is a valid opinion. It's wrong, but you can get there if you want to. Recognising that DD is not as good as the City player, and then deciding that it's Danny's fault would be a nonsense point of view. Anyone holding it should expect to be corrected.

Anyway, sadly, we are not getting any closer to seeing this the same way. I'll watch out for your other posts and see if we can find common ground on a different topic.

[Vybzkartel 284]

I think regardless of where we finish this season we have to sell Willian. His 31 years and we havent upgraded that position in 5 years. If we are to challenge next season in the league and hopefully Champions League, we will need better quality than him.