Best Formation for current Chelsea Squad?

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

Let me put my two cents here.

I really doubt Mourinho wont play a 4-2-3-1.

After the disastrous job he did with the Madrid midfield i hope he learned enough not to do the same mistakes in Chelsea.

Mourinho has such a great selection of players with Oscar, Mata, and Hazard, it will be very hard to fail if he makes the right moves.

One of the biggest problems with his formation of The madrid squad was that for the 3 years he didnt look for a proper right full back.

Arbeloa when good, was only good at defending and helped make the right side obsolete, while Ramos was meh at everything as RB.

On the left side, when on form, Marcelo was amazingly important, but the midfield was so bullshit, and ronaldo refused to track back so we were left looking real bad on both sides of the pitch.

It amazes me that he would go with the same double pivot for 3 years. Alonso was too immobile to be partnered with someone as immobile as Khedira. Someone like Ramires next to him, or now paulinho would have been better. If anything, a double pivot was always going to be dangerous with alonso's mobility, mourinho should have played a different formation, or a far superior partner than khedira.

Mourinho never fixed these problems.

The last problem was Ozil which doesnt have the stamina, or the work rate, or the resources to link up in the middle as well as someone like Isco now will for Madrid. Thats why Ozil should and probably will be put at the right flank.

So the .

. .

.

Of Khedira, Alonso, Ozil, was a disgrace.

Lets look at chelsea now.

With guys like Essien and Ramires, Mourinho has a DM styled player who is on his way out but can probably still give 1 or 2 more good years, while A good ramires could do a good job as his box to box player.

If mourinho doesnt find ramires to be apt in the defending side of the game, he could go for someone like luiz gustavo or paulinho as B2B players. But he would ideally team them up with a player that can hold him self defensively in the midfield as well such as the great spanish talent, Illaramendi.

That is the type of player chelsea should look for. Someone like thiago or modric would be irrelevant with such a player.

For them to work, they would need a DM. If Mourinho wants to go that way he would get a player like modric or thiago, but 90 percent sure he will get none of them. No way in hell, so who could he get?

Can you think of a similar talented player who can deliver?

None of the juventus midfielders would be available. Lets get serious here.

I wont scout what midfielders are availbe atm as i dont see many off the bat but there are the basics on the double pivot.

B2B and DLP/CDM

or

DM CM

I say he goes with the top choice. Thats what he tried in madrid but he didnt pick correctly. Khedira is far too immobile, and so is Alonso. He would have needed better partner, and or a better formation.

For the player infront of them he needs someone who can track back and help deep with ball retention. Ozil couldnt do that well enough.

Juan Mata isnt known for this either.

Can he get Oscar to be able to play an ACM role ala Iniesta/Isco? He will have to imo.

He also needs good work rate in his attackers and midfielders because cole is getting older and Azpilicueta is not the best rb out there in any regards. If he attacks he will need cover.

He will also need to purchase a better cb with good passing skills. Specially if he goes for A cm, so that the cb can spray balls from the back. Someone a CDM would do perfectly.

With Juan Mata's and Oscar's dubious work rate in place, he will need his front 3 to work as hard as possible. But i dont see it getting as bad as in madrid.

Coentrao should stay in madrid one more year while marcelo gets back on top. iF marcelo isnt on top, madrid cant afford to let go of someone like coentrao. Madrid need to know they can trust marcelo. Other wise id get coentrao for the future and present of chelsea.

He needs good work rate from everyone.

I dont see chelsea above P3 this year in the premier league. Behind city and united.

By next season this could be a good lineup.

Cech

Azpilicueta Luiz Hummels Coentrao

Ramires Illaramendi

Mata Oscar Hazard

Cavani

Id get more into the striker, considering you dont have ronaldo i see that a striker will be more important than it was for madrid. Cavani could be a supreme reference point. So could lewandowski but hes going to bayern.

That squad would be above what mourinho was able to produce in madrid. in 2 years atleast.

EDIT: Also you could go with a midfield of TWO CDMS such as...

Sven Bender and Illaramendi, but you would not see them go up towards the pitch too much though, it would be a very adequate and improved version of what mourinho tried in madrid to an extent.

You would need a VERY good link up ACM like Isco in there.

Mourinho needs oscar to be that role, and to improve on things like stamina and work rate. As does Mata.

Bender Illaramendi

Oscar

Mata Hazard

Cavani

Ideally you want a forward to lead the line and have great speed and aerial ability.

Haven't seen jovetic at all, but based on what ive heard, he could be good.

Oscar is our best option as #10 as he roams about, drops deep and links the play, just Mata has a better final ball than him right now. Oscar's work rate is superb, must be the most hard working #10 in the EPL imo. The only thing is about Mata playing out wide is he isn't really pacey and he doesn't work back on the wing as was proven under AVB in 2011-12.

I'd say Chelsea have got their ball playing center back in the shape of David Luiz so Hummels wouldn't be needed, hes also similar to Luiz as he likes to come out and intercept a lot. We need a CB who reads the game well and sits a bit further back to compliment Luiz.

Also playing two DMs, I think as Johan Cryuff pointed out with Holland is it basically limits your team when they are in possession in that part of the pitch. You need to have someone like Ramires who can cover the ground to get up and support the attack or a Alonso/Verratti/Illarramendi player who can pass the ball and make things happens from deeper..... or ultimately try Oscar there or even Kevin De Bruyne but I feel its too soon for any of them to be re positioned there.

Benitez managed to get the likes of Hazard and Mata to work back more often so I feel Jose could get it from them too and also we have Moses/De Bruyne who both do adequate defensive work in my eyes so as a unit under Jose we could be very very good defensively as well as offensively.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

I havent been able to watch much chelsea of 12/13, that is why i cant place definite answers as to whether Oscar can play deeply well enough or if Ramires is good enough to be a B2B defensively.

Thanks for the informations.

Cryuff is right, but this is mourinho we are talking about, he is going to go on the counter so it will be something along the lines i posted.

DM CM

B2B CDM

CDM CDM

Sven Bender and illaramendi or two CDM'S that could do well imo.

Bender is the defending Clog with good pasing, and Illaramendi the Passing piece ( similar to alonso but much more mobile) with defending ability.

In no case would this be as bad as netherlands has been in recent times.

Preferably you need to be able to get Oscar to play VERY well deeper in, or else you WILL lose the battles in the midfield against barcelona, bayern, juventus, and as it seems, also Real Madrid, as one or 2 DM'S or 1 dm and a cdm will join madrid. Someone will join at the very least.

And mata has to get the work rate up there. It doesnt matter if he isnt pacy, it would still serve very well, and much better than what di maria and ozil were able with in madrid.

Moses, De Bryune, and maybe even schurle ( havent seen much of schurle) could be good subs, but Mata Oscar Hazard have to be there for most quality upfront imo.

About Hummels, i mentioned him again, because i wasnt sure of david luiz's passing ability to the fullest.

If he can do that, then you indeed need someone who compliments him.

Preferably you will have a B2B on the right side to help azpilicueta and mata.

That is the most important side of the pitch for chelsea as it is the riskiest.

If he sticks with lampard, essien, ramires, theres no way chelsea are ever getting to second unless the manchesters flop.

Chelsea need midfield purchases!

Also i forgot about veratti...but i wouldnt reccomend him as i think a B2B would go better here, and for that you need a Cm who has good defending ability and Veratii does not have that.

If you look at someone like modric, at least he has some good work rate in him.

Veratti is not at that level to be trusted yet.

[Stingray 9,441]

I havent been able to watch much chelsea of 12/13

Yes. Exactly. Still so very certain of everything.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

I try to be careful with my assertions.

I know enough to be able to make my own calculations.

I dont think im far off the mark, and in the end im good with what i posted.

Id like to see how Lars compares to Sven Bender, sven would be harder to acquire btw.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

I havent been able to watch much chelsea of 12/13, that is why i cant place definite answers as to whether Oscar can play deeply well enough or if Ramires is good enough to be a B2B defensively.

Thanks for the informations.

Cryuff is right, but this is mourinho we are talking about, he is going to go on the counter so it will be something along the lines i posted.

DM CM

B2B CDM

CDM CDM

Sven Bender and illaramendi or two CDM'S that could do well imo.

Bender is the defending Clog with good pasing, and Illaramendi the Passing piece ( similar to alonso but much more mobile) with defending ability.

In no case would this be as bad as netherlands has been in recent times.

Preferably you need to be able to get Oscar to play VERY well deeper in, or else you WILL lose the battles in the midfield against barcelona, bayern, juventus, and as it seems, also Real Madrid, as one or 2 DM'S or 1 dm and a cdm will join madrid. Someone will join at the very least.

And mata has to get the work rate up there. It doesnt matter if he isnt pacy, it would still serve very well, and much better than what di maria and ozil were able with in madrid.

Moses, De Bryune, and maybe even schurle ( havent seen much of schurle) could be good subs, but Mata Oscar Hazard have to be there for most quality upfront imo.

About Hummels, i mentioned him again, because i wasnt sure of david luiz's passing ability to the fullest.

If he can do that, then you indeed need someone who compliments him.

Preferably you will have a B2B on the right side to help azpilicueta and mata.

That is the most important side of the pitch for chelsea as it is the riskiest.

If he sticks with lampard, essien, ramires, theres no way chelsea are ever getting to second unless the manchesters flop.

Chelsea need midfield purchases!

Also i forgot about veratti...but i wouldnt reccomend him as i think a B2B would go better here, and for that you need a Cm who has good defending ability and Veratii does not have that.

If you look at someone like modric, at least he has some good work rate in him.

Veratti is not at that level to be trusted yet.

Totally agree about Chelsea needing MF players. Lampard makes a decent option for rotation but hes very much harder to fit into a 4-2-3-1 as he isn't really an energetic box to box player like Ramires. He likes to attack but often forgets his defensive duties which leaves either Mikel/Ramires/Luiz exposed.

I'd like to see Chelsea look at the likes of Gundogan/Illarramendi/Pjanic/or someone else in that mould to play next to either Mikel/Romeu/De Rossi (if we sign him, which I reckon would be a quality signing) but I'm not sure now with the incoming transfer of Van Ginkel who is very much capable of playing as a 6, 8 or 10. I am certain he won't play as a 10 so perhaps hes going to be our 8 or maybe even our 6 as he done for the Dutch u21s a few times in the u21s championship.

I'd personally love to see a pivot of De Rossi - Gundogan but obtaining both players looks very very very difficult. Also I think we could use a left footer on the left side of our pivot just as we could do with the left side of our CBs to give the team more balance but thats just me.

[Ollie 4,400]

I hope Jose brings back the 4-3-3 with Lampard, Mikel and Essien bossing it and out muscling every cunt going,especially Arsenals weedy cunts.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

I hope Jose brings back the 4-3-3 with Lampard, Mikel and Essien bossing it and out muscling every cunt going,especially Arsenals weedy cunts.

I don't think Lampard and Essien will be regulars next season. Maybe get 15-20 appearances each.

[Ollie 4,400]

Just in games against weak pussies like Arsenal i'd like to see it. I loved it when we brutally out muscled arsenal. The greatest 5 years of my life.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

The chelsea of old had guys like Makalele, Essien, and Lampard in the midfield which were all capable of alot.

Mourinho has been working with the 4-2-3-1 for years now, and considering how little he likes to change formations, i see him going 4-2-3-1 almost all the time.

Id like to bring madrid into this as little as i can but Gundogan is basically Madrid's if barcelona dont let go of thiago, imo.

We will give him assurance in our midfield with alonso 95 percent out of madrid at end of season.

We also have sahin on loan to dortmund, we could work out something with them. Maybe even get both if dortmund are stupid.

And we also have great relations with dortmund. All over credible spanish papers like El Confidencial, that madrid have dibs on gundogan and will get called in case anyone goes for him.

Madrid also going for konodgbia but he is so raw that he might stay at sevilla for one more year, and carlo being the italian that he is might go for someone like de rossi.

Chelsea still have plenty of options.

Dont know about Van Ginkel but he will be needed to be given time.

[Jase 43,479]

any thoughts on a 4-4-1-1?

Cech

Azpo-----Luiz----Terry----Cole

------------------------------------

Schurlle-Ramires-Oscar-Hazard

----------------Mata-----------------

---------------Lukaku--------------

obviously with ramires and osca rhaving defensive duties alternatively,making runs forth and such

That is essentially a 4-2-3-1 because Schurrle and Hazard will be playing further forward to support the frontline and wreak havoc to the opposition. The 4-4-1-1 shape only comes into play if and when we defend and defend with two banks of four.

[Hutcho 8,443]

As stated previously. Technically a 4-3-3 is a 4-2-3-1.

Its about the players in the positions not the formation as there will always be problems whichever formation we pick. 4-2-3-1 seems the least awkward as it utilises the majority of the squad. In an idea world we can play 3 number 10's and not get exploited but that just isn't gonna happen.

Unless we change to a 2 up top system of something more drastic it will be technically similar to what we have at the moment.

It is the mentality and the individual instructions that really changes things not the formation Imo.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Formation will stick at 4-2-3-1 considering the players and mourinho.

The thing here is that with a good enough midfield and a good acm, there could be good variety, question is if mourinho can buy the right pieces, exude the work ethic from mata, oscar, and hazard, and his midfielders, and also tactically do a good job.

With the right purchases i see chelsea going beyond what madrid reached with madrid considering the possible aditions to midfield and attack and defense.

But not in 13/14.

[Barbara 15,149]

I think right now the formation depends on who we sign in the summer. I like 4-2-3-1, but I don't think we have human material to afford it right now, so the best alternative is the boring 4-3-3 (sorry, I don't like it, although it suits us much better than 4-2-3-1)

I think one of the biggest problems last season was that a 4-2-3-1 formation requires mandatory three players:

1. DLP. If I understand well what you guys have been explaining me about English football positions this guy is absolutely essential to make the formation work. As there are four defenders and three attacking midfields that play closer to the box the players corresponding the 2 have to be the guys that own the midfield. In modern football whether is objective as Bayern or a tick taka Barcelona, the game happens in the middle field. If a team decides to play 4-2-3-1 and doesn't have at least one outstanding guy among the 2 what happens is erratic transition from defense to attack, slow movement, bigger exposure to opponent tacklers, facilitating opponent's defensive work among others. We didn't have this guy in Ramires, less alone Mikel. That alone should have been reason enough to avoid tihs formation, but as all big teams now use it with few exceptions, it feels like it's mandatory
2. CAM playmaker: we have two great guys playing this role: Mata and Hazard. Given how amazingly Eden plays in the left flank, I'd favor Mata in the center position. We didn't have playmaking problems last season. So we're more than okay in this position. Some may suggest Oscar and even KDB here but I don't think either show their best in this position.
3. Complete (technically) striker. Not only this guy has to know how to score, have a bit of matador in him, but he has to be committed tactically and learn how to defend. Someone like Benzema, Higuaín, Ronaldo, Romário, to name a few active and inactive players (although Romário was lazy and he wouldn't be that successful in this formation - he plays perfectly on a 4-4-2 though). This guy in addition to having great finishing, needs to know how to tackle the ball. Again, regardless of the chosen formation modern teams need defensive players to know how to pass the ball decently and attacking players have to know how to tackle and go to the defensive field when required. It's another position we had issues. I don't like Torres, Ba never proved to have adapted to Chelsea, and while we had problems with them capitalizing for the team, we also had problems with their lack of ability (Ba and Torres) and laziness (Torres) to actually offer the first combat to recover the ball or even more the effort to reduce opponents' space, putting pressure on the opponent (as this first tackle isn't enough). People say a lot about Barcelona's (boring) football that dominates midfield, has high possession and completely controls the match. But what impresses me the most about Barcelona is how effective (and while with Pep perfectly) their defense play. You see Messi, Pedro, used to see Villa tackling and going behind to recover the ball. Not only Torres and Ba were far from impressive scoring, they're down right pathetic technically and defensively.

I can't see a team being competitive in a 4-2-3-1 formation if they don't have those key players which is why we failed to be competitive last season and fight for EPL title and go deeper in UCL. They don't need to be world class - as really, it's not easy to afford (not only because of money, but because of offer). But the problem is that we didn't have the DPL at all and our strikers were mediocre.

The ideal for a 4-2-3-1 formation would require signings and I'd go randomly with this (the players between parenthesis are references for the position, not a viable signing):

We have three amazing AM in Mazacar. I think Mata's best position is CAM while Eden's and Oscar's are LW. Eden has to play in the LW no matter what, he is our best player imo, and the best should always play where he fits better. Mata while good in both flanks, is way better when he's in the center so, we should keep him there. I favor Oscar playing as a RW because honestly if we want to keep him in the team (and I particularly want) that's where he would fit, despite not being able to shoot well with both feet.

I chose Terry and Ivanovic instead of any of them + Cahill because I'm never relaxed when Cahill is playing. He's passing is terrible, his defensive skills while good, are far from world class. I believe if healthy Terry still has a season on him and I favor Ivanovic over Cahill. The truth is a guy like Thiago Silva or Varane (as both certainly aren't leaving PSG and RM) would also be welcomed. Maybe a young guy that José could work just like he did with Varane and slowly bring him to the team. Hopefully we could bring this guy as well because while good on paper, we know Terry is no boy anymore and his body isn't the same and chances are he will injure himself again and then need time to get rhythm again, and bla bla bla.

I don't see KDB in the team yet, although I like him a lot. He could rotate with Oscar very often during the season, but let's say 2 years from now, I see KDB - Eden - Oscar with Mata rotating with Eden - if Mata is still in the club at all.

I also promoted Luiz to the 2 because of two things: he's talented enough to develop his game (especially under Mourinho's wing) and he would like that, we would still need a DLP, but that's up to Roman and his team to provide.

For the DLP position I don't know who we could actually sign. The references for me are Xabi - the best of all - and Bastian. And as a striker I just considered Cavani because of the rumors. I don't think he's that amazing, but he's good enough (although pricey).

Also for this formation to work really well the players have to confuse the opponents defenders, so the yellow arrows are tactical changes between positions during the match. If a team for example decides to get a guy to 'follow' Eden in the pitch, if Eden switches positions with Oscar or Mata, it makes the rivals work to tackler harder. The blue arrows are the usual attack advances by LD, RD, DLP, CM, DM while the red arrows are the expected defensive movement (especially in a team where Mourinho is the manager)

Now, without projections and working with the team we have now (considering Schrulle is already part of it) I think 4-3-3 is what could work.

I know, too defensive. But I think if we don't get new signings (unlikely) or if they're young players that are to be used in the future instead of promptly, that's what Mourinho will bring to the table. While not a defensive manager per say, Mourinho is known for having very firm and effective defenses and as we had a LOT of defense problems last season, I think that's where we should begin.

As season progresses and KDB gains confidence and chemistry with the team I see it changing to:

In the first model Schurrle would be the most advanced while Mata and Hazard would have more advanced positions with Oscar approaching them often. The formation screams for a FW, but I refuse to have Torres in any team formation I idealize... that's why he's absent no matter what I project. But yeah, if we must move Mata to the right, keep Eden in the left and have Torres in the middle. That was what should have been done last season instead of the horrible 4-2-3-1. While Oscar doesn't excel the long passes he's better than the alternatives we had and don't remind me of Ramires as a winger because it still makes me want to hit my head in the wall.

I'm too lazy to do the arrows, but the defensive and attack moves from the 4 backs and the 3 forwarders would be similar to the 4-2-3-1. The main difference is the midfield. Luiz would advance less often and Ramires would continue to play his box-to-box style while Oscar would often advance. Oscar would also be responsible to increase the pace (and quality) between defense-midfield-attack, receiving the ball preferably from Ramires - whose passing quality oscillates a lot (but normally is bad and sometimes good) and Luiz. Luiz also has better long passing than Ramires and he has a nice game vision and could help us either with long passes or simply carrying the ball and advancing towards the attack - as well as Oscar.

In the second model we have de Bruyne replacing Ramires, but only in theory. For it to work defensively, KDB would be the one advancing to the attack more often while Azpilicueta would remain behind most time. It's a bit sacrificial, but Kevin's crosses are much more accurate and Azpili is very good defending. Luiz would also be more static in a defensive midfield position, protecting the defense as we say in Brazil. Oscar would continue to have freedom to go and come, as well as Kevin, and in this scenario we wouldn't really have a b2b midfield - something some people really like. But if the entire team moves in 'waves' we don't miss much a b2b like Ramires. When the team is defending both 3's will move back and when attacking both 3 are in the attacking field - with Luiz staying closer to the defense.

I'm tired after so much typing and drawing. I'm never doing this again, hahaha.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Wow, nice job on taking your time for sharing your thoughts. I salute you.

These are my comments...

In Mourinho's 4-2-3-1 specially, the lines between defense, midfield, and attack are a bit farther and this means theres a whole lot of work the midfielders have to do in transition.

When you look at the 4-2-3-1 that Spain plays for example, you have xavi really close to the pivot, and the players like iniesta are closer, hence the whole team really attacks and defends more together than a team like Mourinho's as shown in real madrid.

So theres a difference in 4-2-3-1, and depending on the players you have and how you organize it, it can give you different results. Thats one of the reasons many use it, as it is flexible.. Or can be...Mourinho failed with madrid..seriously lol.

For a team with such lines, he needed a good pivot...and he didnt make it one.

About the 1st point you make about DLP...you should read the comments ive made eariler in this page and the previous one i believe.

You dont necessarily need a DLP but you clearly need someone who is preferably mobile and has good passing ability, and able to launch counter attacks with his passing and preferably with runs.

You could have pivots of

CDM CDM

DM CM

B2B/ DLP

ETC.

Spain's is more along the first one.

Madrid's was the third one under mourinho.

Meaning Alonso stayed behind and sprayed balls, while khedira moved around to help link up and defense. A jack of all trades master of none.

The problem here is that Alonso is a very slow and immobile player. A nuissance if you dont have a correct system. Technically always a nuissance if you have a player that can bring what he can, but with mobility.

So Alonso could easily be marked out of games, and annihlated if marked and was overall nevr a good pick to be in a pivot with khedira.

The problem with khedira is that he lacks so much speed and technical ability that he becomes irrelevant, and the midfield gets overun by faster or technically superior players/systems.

Mascherano worked so well with Alonso because mascherano could really lay the heat in the midfield and protected Alonso more.

In Madrid, the pivot consistently got raped. With alonso you would preferably have a very complete b2b like yaya toure if you wanted a b2b but mourinho failed.

So here you can have multiple types of players, you dont need a DLP, as it is also a bit more one dimensional if you wanted to change formations. Alonso is bullsht compared to someone like gundogan when it comes to overall quality and resources. Sorry for my frankness.

Alonso could provide some defense though and thats why he had his time in spain as he had a system that let him perform well. But gundogan like players are much more reliable in variety.

Now about the Cam position...

In any 4-2-3-1 its preferable to have an ACM if you can, Maybe you can have a Cam next to him, Mata is Not ACM, Oscar from what ive heard from the peers in the forum can be capable of doing this.

An ACM simply put is a player like iniesta or isco who can drop deeper and be LM , ACM, CM, etc if they have to.

They can form part of a 3 man midfield.

Busquets

Xavi Iniesta

Iniesta is the ACM.

Del bosque tried to make Xavi and ACM of a sort but he is not really adequate there and thats why he doesnt shine as much regularly for spain as for barcelona.

Mata, SIlva, Ozil...They cant do this... they should be put at the right, and thats why i expect to see with chelsea, and madrid, and maybe even city.

Isco could have been very good for city but they got owned in the race.

Anyways...

Oscar is more suitable for this role than any other player in the team.

There are things such as work rate, and stamina, and vision, and tactical awareness that you need from these players, so that they can be part of the midfield and attack and help you win midfield battles.

You cant have a pivot with a low work rate ACM and pretend to win.

Oscar has better work rate and possibly the correct resources that mata and eden dont.

Hazard Oscar Mata it is imo.

Also about the DLP'S i forgot to mention that when you have guys like pique, bonucci, varane, aka good passers of the ball, the deep playing aspects of deep playing playmakers could be replaced.

You could have a midfield of a midfield ram like Toure and schweinsteiger and Kroos, with a ball playing cb coming in from behind with passes.

Ideally you would have good work rate on your players but id expect to see the work rate to improve in all of chelsea players to improve team performance.

Schweinsteiger is not a DLP hes more of a B2B CM.

Food for thought.

Btw you cant have someone like alonso as high up as he is in your formation.

I dont knot about luiz but i doubt he has the tools to be anything more than a utility player as a midfield player.

He should stay in the back line if you want a credible team.

Illaramendi has good defense and is a bit of a CDM alonso type player, but much more mobile.

You can put another cdm like lars bender. Or a b2b with exceptional defending abilities.

[Barbara 15,149]

@, hello fellow Madrid fan

We disagree about a lot of things, but I'm one of those people that welcomes different points of view, so we can learn something new or realize something we haven't.

Well, I think Mourinho improved RM a lot. I didn't watch much this past season, but I watched nearly every RM match in the two previous seasons.

You don't seem to like Xabi much, while he's the best in his position imo. Schweinsteiger is a closer second simply out of bias, because although I love Bastian, I hate Bayern and Real Madrid is my team in Spain, so I'm probably being biased.

I'm not going to cover the Alonso part then as we clearly have different takes about him. I just think that a player with his quality to pass the ball short, medium and long distance and his vision of the field can afford to be static and slow. He doesn't need to run, he makes the ball run instead. But we can agree to disagree.

I agree with you that a formation like 4-2-3-1 can be played in many ways - most positions allow that. I didn't have anything in mind about where I positioned the players. I think the more mobile a team is, the more effective it becomes, so if it's forming a line, a curve, a diagram, a diamond, etc, I don't care much as teams are much more volatile and versatile than that.

I think Bastian is perfect as a DM that advances often towards, so you might be right in your b2b assessment. I just see him as a guy who has quality pass, whose position in the formation is in the '2' and who has great positioning and tacking skills. As I said he only comes second to Xabi in the position imo.

I really dislike Busquets because he's a cunt. He dives and acts too much and I can't support a player that cheats like him... no matter how technically good he is.

Mascherano is one of my fave in the original volante position, as we call in Brazil. He's a hard worker and he does his job tactically and technically as few players in the world. The thing is his work isn't the one that brights in a team like Barça but he is seriously underrated.

And last but not least, I've seen Oscar playing since he was in SPCF and then in Inter and now in Chelsea. I think he suits much better the wingers than the CAM (or ACM, I suck with those positions names in English). He's playing literally #10 in our NT during CC and while I think his less than impressive matches are because he's exhausted and Scolari is blind and stupid not to spare him while he could afford it, I also think the position he plays in the team doesn't help him.

I'm not literally comparing, but Fred and Torres sort of have the same role in Chelsea and Brazil as well as Neymar and Eden (I don't think Neymar really compares to anyone else but Cristiano Ronaldo, but if we're just looking for the formation and seeing him as a winger, then let's compare him to Eden). So Oscar has sort of the same kind of players around him in Brazil... and I think he played much better for Chelsea than he's been playing for Brazil. Then again having 90+ matches in less than a year does that to you. So I'd rather he to go to the flank rather than stay in the center. But it's a personal preference, not the absolute truth about where he is better. so I'll stick with him in the right side, although he's better in the left.

Also, I think I forgot to mention in my previous post, and that's something important. Mazacar can play whatever way they want between LW, RW and CAM, I still believe Oscar and Eden are better in the LW and Mata in the CAM, but they can perform decently in all three (which is why I had the yellow arrows showing as much)

It's late now here and to be honest, I haven't read any post prior to mine, so I missed your previous posts in the thread, but I'll check them tomorrow and then we continue to talk.

always great to read thoughtful and insightful opinions like yours.

Cheers.