Buying talent

[Styles 9,790]

For this approach to work we'd need a settled first team, a clear style of play/coaching and a manager wiling to trust young players. At present we have none of those things so we're stockpiling hoping some come off and making a profit on the others. There little method to the madness at present.

[Strike 7,212]

Would you sign 3-4 world class players and presumably challenge for the title next season or would you push de bruyne, lukaku and go through another transition season? Almost everyone would pick the former.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Would you sign 3-4 world class players and presumably challenge for the title next season or would you push de bruyne, lukaku and go through another transition season? Almost everyone would pick the former.

Sorry....how is signing 3-4 players any less of a transition than putting in players that we already own?

Let's not forget that signing these world class players actually costs a fair bit more, and there's nothing to stop the likes of Lukaku and De Bruyne from becoming world class.

For this approach to work we'd need a settled first team, a clear style of play/coaching and a manager wiling to trust young players. At present we have none of those things so we're stockpiling hoping some come off and making a profit on the others. There little method to the madness at present.

There's actually a lot of method involved and we have a fairly clear style of play throughout the club so I'm a tiny bit confused as to most of that post (the first team isn't settled and we don't actually have any manager at this point in time although the one we might get - think his name is Jose something - has shown a willingness to go with youth if they're good enough).

In fact I'm bemused at the existence of this thread to be quite honest.

Cavani is a good player and costs a lot of money. 7 years ago he wasn't quite as good, but he also wasn't quite as expensive. Now we have three options.

1. Sign Cavani now, spend lot of money, get good player.

2. Look to accrue more young players from around the world with the ability to become the next Cavani so we don't have to go for option 1 in the future.

3. Build a time machine, go back in time and sign Cavani before he's expensive.

Now option 1 is what we'll probably have to do in this case, and option 2 is what we'll look to do in future to reduce the instances of relying on option 1.

But option 3 is my personal favourite.

[didierforever 7,349]

No, if players are good enough, they make it, simple.

When Iniesta was 20, he was still to properly break into the Barca team and saw them sign Deco, in theory that should have blocked his path, but did it?

in their current 11 barca one player in the iniesta age bracket. but the problem with us is that we have a bunch of these players but no one to use that talent. (hopefully jose will change that)

[Styles 9,790]

There's actually a lot of method involved and we have a fairly clear style of play throughout the club so I'm a tiny bit confused as to most of that post (the first team isn't settled and we don't actually have any manager at this point in time although the one we might get - think his name is Jose something - has shown a willingness to go with youth if they're good enough).

A 'lot of method' is pushing it. There is a clear structure and style of play at youth and reserve level but not at the senior team. The senior team relies heavily on individual moments of quality/skill and isn't a well drilled team especially in comparison to the top European clubs who press as a team, have rehearsed patterns of play etc. In fact I've long thought one of issues regarding youth integration is they come up from a well oiled machine at youth and reserve level with clear roles and step up into a senior team that doesn't function well at all.

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

Hard to comment too much on this as everyone panics a lot about whats happening with the young lads based on tabloid speculation. I think people give Chels grief based on our early roman transfer operations but we have been spot on recently with lukaku, courtois,hazard,oscar,kdb and wallace along with players like loftus-cheek,ake,christensen,bertrand coming through. I know theres concerns over kdb being sold but I do trust the board know what they are doing, really dont expect him to be sold. Think all in all we have an excellent squad of youth to come through and do think it'll be a matter of mixing them with experience in next few years. Futures bright

[The only place to be 11,313]

A 'lot of method' is pushing it. There is a clear structure and style of play at youth and reserve level but not at the senior team. The senior team relies heavily on individual moments of quality/skill and isn't a well drilled team especially in comparison to the top European clubs who press as a team, have rehearsed patterns of play etc. In fact I've long thought one of issues regarding youth integration is they come up from a well oiled machine at youth and reserve level with clear roles and step up into a senior team that doesn't function well at all.

Again that will come with a manager who has a full pre-season and a mandate to alter certain things.

[Strike 7,212]

Sorry....how is signing 3-4 players any less of a transition than putting in players that we already own?

Let's not forget that signing these world class players actually costs a fair bit more, and there's nothing to stop the likes of Lukaku and De Bruyne from becoming world class.

Difference in quality. Cavani, di Maria etc will produce the goods faster than Lukaku, de Bruyne. They are already in their peak, so no question of 'developing' any skill.

They'll cost a fair bit more and I would like to see the club incorporate some of the youngsters atleast as rotation option but they will go for instant success i feel.

[Las7 951]

It's silly to think that you can't win with a bunch of Kids, but United and Arsenal(before 2004) have proven that you have to have the right environment of older and younger players in the squad and the right attitude and even average players can contribute to Title wins. Whether those youngsters will prove good enough for first team football during their time rotating or coming on as subs than than obviously they would become key players over time. But looking back you can't really say that in recent years anyone has come from relative obscurity to a part of the team member of the squad. Mikel; Kalou; Sturridge; Bertrand; Diarra; were possibly the only players who started playing young here. Now most of those were highly rated before actually signed, and none really became integral here(Mikel being the most important, which I know doesn't say that many good things about how we signed an attacking midfielder and molded him into a player who is unable to score a goal). I felt that most of those players given enough time might have gone on to become more important in the team but those opportunities were lacking.

Based on that track record I hope Lukaku; KdB; Joshua; Courtois; Ake; Bruma; Christensen etc are treated different and are given more chances rather than playing older players simply because they have higher reputation. Hopefully we have changed the way we work - but I want to see some results from our investments in the near future making it into the first squad on a regular basis.

[nono 791]

If Mourinho comes I hope we at least shut down the youth academy, because it would be a terrible waste of resources. Mourinho has been at how many different clubs now ? Port, Inter, Real Madrid, Chelsea. Which youngster has he been able to help transition from the youth academy to a regular starter for the first team? It is useless and hopeless. I am all for the signing, but it will also immediately signal the end of the Chelsea careers of KDB, Kalas, Chalobah, Loftus-Cheek, Boga, Lukaku , Courtois etc. They are all probably already terrified at the thought.

[coolhead23 1,146]

It's an FFP consequence. Young players cost less in transfers and wages, they come under little pressure to succeed and the club has the bonus of selling them on at a decent price even if they don't become starters. If they do, you obviously hit the jackpot anyway.

Competition is never bad, it brings out the best or worst (Stoch) in players, which is useful to know if you want to keep them around.

We bought De Bruyne for about £7 million. He's now worth at least double that and is one of the best young players in Europe.

We bought Courtois for around £8 million. He's now worth about double that and is probably the best young keeper around.

We're doing this so we have options, rather than waiting until these players are 'stars' (like Cavani, Bender or Modric) and cost four or five times as much.

I don't think that chimes with how footballers think in the slightest. A 17 year old's career has basically been beset by rejection and competition since he was 9. They understand that they have to claw and scratch for a shirt and that's good preparation for first-team football. I doubt very much they would throw their hands up and ask to leave, and if they do then they probably aren't the type of player we want anyway.

These! pretty much sums up the answer to the topic. Yes we r a confused bunch when it comes to buying new talents specially without the consent of a steady manager.... but would we be having one in the near future so that we wait and then built a roadmap?.....

And let's face it football is big money today so in order to generate additional revenues this seems pretty much a solution.

Something about having an adverse effect on youngsters, this is just a way of saying... Welcome to the big bad world of football... convert your talents / potentials into performances else .... As someone pointed the best would perform and it's those who would make the cut rest might just make us money...

P.S. yes at times we mite miss out a good player who could have been a part of the team but i guess that's the risk.

[Rmpr 8,977]

But option 3 is my personal favourite.

That is the safest also!

Although I get what you are saying, I believe the team needs a certain balance. We cant buy the next big stars in every position because that will mean a team with no experience and we all know what that leads to...

I believe the main focus should be having a criteria for young talent (which the club is rightfully doing), but we should also buy some experienced players. For instance, imagine we buy De Rossi and Ibra...it would add to the team in a lot of aspects and their age is benefical for some players that might not be 100% ready!

[AndersonBLUE 819]

We have great talent coming through the Academy, and great talent being bought every transfer window. I don't know what the issue is really, I mean it's not like Mourniho will just ignore that Lukaku scored 17 goals or KDB doing immense for werder and for his country. Their football will do the talking in pre season and whatever squad we end up with after that i'm pretty sure we will be competing at every level.

Still also means we shouldn't shy away from making purchases like Cavani or Modric etc.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I feel, with this debate, we must recall Styles' earlier point in the forum.

The fact of the matter is, our youth development is bias as too the price we pay for such youngsters. We've got quality players at youth level that do show mass potential, which could flourish once their time comes to be promoted - but it's the ones that will get that promotion that has this issue. McEachran & C Clifford had a massive bag of potential in 2009 but they've been forgotten ahead of the international youth signings we've made in Piazon & Ake.

Not to discredit the level of ability that Piazon and Aké have, but I think there will be a greater emphasis on them coming through than the likes of Billy Clifford, Chalobah etc.

There's also the issue of where these players will be allowed to be deployed. Let's face it here, we're not going give a kid a chance to play centre forward (so, rule out Feruz right now), attacking midfield the 'no 10' position (so, Piazon), that problem we have in the middle of the pitch (so bye bye McEachran & Chalobah). It's easier, perhaps, with central defence because you've got 2 players there. Therefore you can accomodate trying out one youth player next to someone with experience. As occurred when Ranieri let Terry play alongside Desailly.

Now sometimes it's understandable why we let talent go.

• Stoch supposedly wanted more playing time - which we couldn't guarantee.
• de Bryune we're going to make a lot of money off. Whether we like it or not, the club's finances will dictate those actions.
• Borini's agent pissed off our board.

Other times, we've suffered because of the lack of risks managers are inclined to take on talent. Ancelotti couldn't use Sturridge in the centre, because he simply was under too much pressure with having Torres, Drogba & Kalou ahead of him. Di Matteo & AVB lost their jobs as soon as they did drop Torres ffs

[╫rue Blue 47]

I totally agree. we arent good with youth. and you cant even say we are doing it for buisness because we are paying top dollar for these young players that we most likely wont make back.

you're right about the loaning system. maybe one full season is good for development, but ideally maybe half a season loaned out, then used off the bench or in rotation will really help settle them in to the TEAM rather than just develop them as an individual. We have never really been that good at getting youth in to our team. Maybe its hte pressures managers feel from Roman - he always wants a top performance, playing a youngster adds a risk as they are not going to be consistent. Unless tehy are a really talented player like Hazard, they dont really stand much of a chance and thats a real shame. players like KdB, Lukaku and Piazon have real promising talent that should see them having a part in our current squad, but who is going to risk taking out some of our bigger names to give them a chance?! frustrating as funk!

yeah, always want TOP performance

meanwhile on the pitch what we saw is crap performance from benayoun, marin, mikel, torres and some player who often play average in our line up.

Really frustating, painfull and ironic

another great talent we have, play good at another team. They actually should have give a chance here ffs

More promising, to develop by time

than keep playing first team player who often play so so, over and over again

[Deanocfc 22]

Because Hazard and Oscar are better than any of the players in our academy, can you imagine where we would have finished if we "gave Kakuta a chance" instead of signing Hazard?

The reason Jose used little youth last time is because they were shit, infact the one semi decent one (Robert Huth) Jose used 36 times in two season's. Now when you consider Huth isn't actually that good, had injury problems and we had arguably at the time the three best centre half's in the Premier League infront of him, i would say the fact he wrapped up those amount of appearances was a minor miracle.

That's because Barca have strong youth players, upto a couple of years ago we haven't had that for a long time.

This is a narrow view and doesn't acknowledge youth development. You do get 'wonderkids' who can fit into the first team straight away but they are rare. You need to give the youngsters real experience for them to become top players. Loaning players out is great but they need a space in the team to come into where they will grow even further. Take Wilshere and Dan Sturridge as examples. Bringing through players in little groups is great too, they would have been playing together for years and understand each other better. It's a model being adopted in Germany and Spain and it works. Instant success is great but I know that I'd prefer a few more local boys at least given a chance.

[tizerist 6]

This is why I like Ancelotti so much. He won the double while blooding young Josh. Wasn't afraid to pick one or two youngsters out and integrate them properly. If only he had been around a year or two more, he was trying to look ahead but not given opportunity to carry it on. Top manager.

[Blue_Legendary 1]

I really think the 2012/13 season was a golden opportunity to bring a couple of youth players. I think Ake could have had a lot more game time and I honestly think he would do a better job than the disinterested Mikel. He could be a player who would solve some of our Pivot problems