🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Lewis Baker

[Madmax 9,219]

And if this is the treatment being meted out to Izzy Brown, someone who Mourinho himself has earmarked (but by common consensus wouldn't get in the list of the top 3 talents from the academy of the posters here), what fate awaits someone truly good like Boga or Loftus Cheek?

[Madmax 9,219]

And if this is the treatment being meted out to Izzy Brown, someone who Mourinho himself has earmarked (but by common consensus wouldn't get in the list of the top 3 talents from the academy of the posters here), what fate awaits someone truly good like Boga or Loftus Cheek?

[Tomo 21,751]

Pogba is the perfect example for what I was saying. Despite playing brilliantly for all United youth teams not only did SAF refuse to use him in the the first team, United also didn't let Pogba go out on loan. Talk about putting a player in a situation to succeed...

The thing is, why would a top club go after someone like, for example, Chalobah next season if he's shit at Burnley all season long after being not good at Boro previously? Don't you think that the situation would be a different one if he had been a free agent after his loan spell at Watford? Again, it hugely comes down to what the club does to your development.

As some already pointed out, Baker has done everything asked from him, he was pulled up to the big club instead of letting him go out on loan. And yet, he can't be trusted to play vs a lower-tier club.

Pogba was a player who was actually good enough and didn't get a chance, Juve were more than happy to wade in and show United just that.

If we ignore a player who is ready and top class, someone on a similar scale to Juve/Chelsea will happily intervene and demonstrate that to us like Juve did to Fergie.

[Tomo 21,751]

The way people on here calmly dismiss youth players before they've even gotten a chance never fails to amuse me. He's scored 32 goals in his last 2 seasons but apparently that's not good enough to start against a 4th division team.

Chalobah was always overrated so I don't get the comparisons.

Part of me wants to see Jose do a Pellegrini at Derby then you will all have something to actually get worked up about.

[Tomo 21,751]

And if this is the treatment being meted out to Izzy Brown, someone who Mourinho himself has earmarked (but by common consensus wouldn't get in the list of the top 3 talents from the academy of the posters here), what fate awaits someone truly good like Boga or Loftus Cheek?

17 years old and playing for one of the best academys in Europe and having his progress monitored by the world's best manager.

I wish I was treated that badly at 17..

[Stats 7,142]

And if this is the treatment being meted out to Izzy Brown, someone who Mourinho himself has earmarked (but by common consensus wouldn't get in the list of the top 3 talents from the academy of the posters here), what fate awaits someone truly good like Boga or Loftus Cheek?

Brown is different tbh. He is only 17 and you can't realistically expect him to play in our first team for now. Brown is a top talent but he is not any where near ready for our first team yet and unlike Baker, this is is a totally different issue tbh. Baker is a couple years older and has been playing U21/reserve level for around 3 seasons now. Brown on the other hand has only been playing with our U18 team but this season is a full member of the U21. It will be a while till we see him play for the first team in a competitive fixture I assume unless there is an injury crisis.

[Thendo 1,088]

Apparently loaned to Sheffield Wednesday. Might be good for him, since he's struggling to get games here.

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-news/2015/01/baker-loan-to-owls.html?WT.mc_id=social_20150108_38447697&adbid=553147136661942274&adbpl=tw&adbpr=22910295

[Reddish-Blue 2,506]

I'm glad we loaned him out...hopefully he impresses in the Championship

[lionsden 4,689]

I'm glad we loaned him out...hopefully he impresses in the Championship

Like that makes a difference in regards to his chances of making it here which is extremely slim unfortunately as he's a player I really rate. even if he impresses we will just loan him out straight away next season and again and again until he gets caught up in a bad loan move and soon forgotten.

[DH1988 1,348]

Cracks me up that people use Pogba as The example for youth players not being given a chance or xyz can be the new Pogba etc.

Just because he is part of a 0.0001% minority that leave a top club, goto a sub par division and shine.

It's more the attachment to the name Juventus than anything. Do I think he's a good player? Yes. Class? Flashes. Is his name more in the spot light because he plays for the name Juventus in what is considered a subpar league? Imo, yes.

It's impossible to denote what coaches see day in day out sitting behind a keyboard, unfortunately. Sometimes coaches get it wrong, wrong time/place for the player, players attitude, all sorts of factors.

If we had a super super super talent then there would be more of an outcry than a few forum posts.

That's not me saying we do not have talented youngsters, we do, however we do not see day to day. If we had good enough youngsters, now, they'd be apart of things especially winger wise but the team and way we play requires such discipline and tactical awareness that international players are having trouble keeping up.

But how will we know unless we give them a chance!? If they are good enough they will get their chance in training, in a match or on loan which requires a very astute head on a young mans shoulders but also the right coach, do I feel sorry for Nathan? No, if you cannot get into the burnley team under Sean who values workrate and spirit then there is something wrong.

[Tomo 21,751]

Cracks me up that people use Pogba as The example for youth players not being given a chance or xyz can be the new Pogba etc.

Just because he is part of a 0.0001% minority that leave a top club, goto a sub par division and shine.

It's more the attachment to the name Juventus than anything. Do I think he's a good player? Yes. Class? Flashes. Is his name more in the spot light because he plays for the name Juventus in what is considered a subpar league? Imo, yes.

It's impossible to denote what coaches see day in day out sitting behind a keyboard, unfortunately. Sometimes coaches get it wrong, wrong time/place for the player, players attitude, all sorts of factors.

If we had a super super super talent then there would be more of an outcry than a few forum posts.

That's not me saying we do not have talented youngsters, we do, however we do not see day to day. If we had good enough youngsters, now, they'd be apart of things especially winger wise but the team and way we play requires such discipline and tactical awareness that international players are having trouble keeping up.

But how will we know unless we give them a chance!? If they are good enough they will get their chance in training, in a match or on loan which requires a very astute head on a young mans shoulders but also the right coach, do I feel sorry for Nathan? No, if you cannot get into the burnley team under Sean who values workrate and spirit then there is something wrong.

Exactly and people also don't realise that for one Pogba there's a Drogba or even Grafite (who wasn't even a professional aged 23).

[Tomo 21,751]

DP

[DH1988 1,348]

I actually feel, and have felt for years, that the loan system is totally broken.. As a club you cannot just farm someone out, you almost need a minder or a department focused to that individual, how many times have we seen or read players, youngsters, former and current saying "Yeah I'm in contact with Chelsea every few weeks" "Not heard from the club for a while but I just got to get my head down and work hard" or you might say "Well player development department duh?" "They have people assigned to this" Well clearly not enough.

I think to be a success or to be clearly judged it shouldnt all weigh on the shoulders of an 18 year old lad or younger/slightly older. I know for sure at that age only a few things were on my mind let alone earning £10k a week or £5k a week at the same time.

I can bet alot that we all wish we could go back to when we played football as a youngster and try that little bit harder, I know I do - I suspect many youngsters/loanees feel the same, a big chance missed - (Hi Josh!!)

If your loaning a talent out, you should be in contact almost on a day to day basis, management wise, man management, training management, not every other week watching tapes of reserve games or match games.

[supporter 3,088]

I actually feel, and have felt for years, that the loan system is totally broken.. As a club you cannot just farm someone out, you almost need a minder or a department focused to that individual, how many times have we seen or read players, youngsters, former and current saying "Yeah I'm in contact with Chelsea every few weeks" "Not heard from the club for a while but I just got to get my head down and work hard" or you might say "Well player development department duh?" "They have people assigned to this" Well clearly not enough.

I think to be a success or to be clearly judged it shouldnt all weigh on the shoulders of an 18 year old lad or younger/slightly older. I know for sure at that age only a few things were on my mind let alone earning £10k a week or £5k a week at the same time.

I can bet alot that we all wish we could go back to when we played football as a youngster and try that little bit harder, I know I do - I suspect many youngsters/loanees feel the same, a big chance missed - (Hi Josh!!)

If your loaning a talent out, you should be in contact almost on a day to day basis, management wise, man management, training management, not every other week watching tapes of reserve games or match games.

Yes, it's very interesting what you say. I remember when Courtois was in the Atletico de Madrid it was said that he was receiving videos every week to improve their technical skills, but I do not remember if someone was with Courtois in Madrid helping him and guarding him every day. I know perfectly Madrid and a young boy of 18 years (which had Courtois when he came to Atletico de Madrid) is so simple that he can lose his mind and go crazy with money and parties. The night of Madrid is very greedy for young boys and they usually are not prepared for this change of life.

I also think Chelsea should create an office with club workers to accompany the players in the different countries where we have them loans and helping them to assimilate the change seen with money, fame and parties. If we have 30 young players on loan, I believe that at least two people accompanying each player on loan to help them take these profound changes in their lives.

We all know what it is to be young and in those years have the company tutors and they provide advice to young guys so that they do not spoil their careers.

That would be only create a new department at The Academy. I know if we already have that department (if we do not have it, we should create it), but it would be very interesting to be closer to our young players to help and advise them better.

Very interesting your post, DH1988.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Cracks me up that people use Pogba as The example for youth players not being given a chance or xyz can be the new Pogba etc.

Just because he is part of a 0.0001% minority that leave a top club, goto a sub par division and shine.

It's more the attachment to the name Juventus than anything. Do I think he's a good player? Yes. Class? Flashes. Is his name more in the spot light because he plays for the name Juventus in what is considered a subpar league? Imo, yes.

It's impossible to denote what coaches see day in day out sitting behind a keyboard, unfortunately. Sometimes coaches get it wrong, wrong time/place for the player, players attitude, all sorts of factors.

If we had a super super super talent then there would be more of an outcry than a few forum posts.

That's not me saying we do not have talented youngsters, we do, however we do not see day to day. If we had good enough youngsters, now, they'd be apart of things especially winger wise but the team and way we play requires such discipline and tactical awareness that international players are having trouble keeping up.

But how will we know unless we give them a chance!? If they are good enough they will get their chance in training, in a match or on loan which requires a very astute head on a young mans shoulders but also the right coach, do I feel sorry for Nathan? No, if you cannot get into the burnley team under Sean who values workrate and spirit then there is something wrong.

I think you need to go back and look at the mitigating factors that surrounded Pogba leaving. First, and certainly the most obvious was he felt he was ready to start featuring more regularly and Sir Alex never gave him a chance. Many people say that had more to do with the fact that he hadn't put pen to paper on a new contract more so than Alex thinking he wasn't ready. From Pogba's perspective he was willing to wait but only if Utd were willing to show a real commitment in dollar amount, he was looking to double his wages in order to sit and wait. When Juventus came along(Pogba's agent is Mino Raiola) and promised him more money than he was on AND an opportunity to play regularly Paul took the deal. Few can argue that it was the right one... Pogba left because he wanted to play and wanted assurances that he would, not because he hadn't shown he was ready.

Also, Paul is not only showing his quality at the best club in Italy but also internationally, where he was one of the best players for a french team that went to the q-finals of the World cup, he is without a doubt an incredible prospect at the age of 21. As for his flashes of brilliance what do you expect at his age? He has world class potential, he not yet world class. His name is out there because he is showing he can perform on big stages, has nothing to do with a subpar league or Juventus, he's young and already playing/excelling at a high level.

Now, when you look at the Chelsea situation it is much different. Players like Ake, Baker and Loftus-Cheek are very talented indeed but in order for them to reach their potential(whether that is good pro or great player) they need to play and that isn't going to happen when the club is in it to win everything. Loic Remy and Luis are't even playing much less Baker. Our youngsters are very good but the level they're being asked to play at is extremely high and they may not get the looks they need in order to show that quality.

Today is a good day for Lewis Baker, he is getting loaned to a championship squad and will likely play for them. If he performs admirably for them he will get a look in next year and perhaps make Van Ginkel(who was suppose to play before his injuries) expendable. As is the case at all top clubs in the world integrating youth is very difficult and at Chelsea its definitely not a priority.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

If your loaning a talent out, you should be in contact almost on a day to day basis, management wise, man management, training management, not every other week watching tapes of reserve games or match games.

Who has the time or resources for that? These are men we're dealing with here! Only the strong will make it...

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

[Styles 9,790]

Welp, I guess Baker is the next academy player to get lost in the loan system. This will be the first of several loans before he's sold/released. Right now the mood is 'impress here and he will definitely get a chance'. By the 5th or 6th loan it'll be 'well he clearly was never that good'.

And in the meantime there will be other players hyped up as 'THE one to finally break through since John Terry'...and then they'll go through the same process.

The Chelsea way

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Welp, I guess Baker is the next academy player to get lost in the loan system. This will be the first of several loans before he's sold/released. Right now the mood is 'impress here and he will definitely get a chance'. By the 5th or 6th loan it'll be 'well he clearly was never that good'.

And in the meantime there will be other players hyped up as 'THE one to finally break through since John Terry'...and then they'll go through the same process.

The Chelsea way

Oh well.... Only the best can make it. Only the strong will survive...

[Tomo 21,751]

Welp, I guess Baker is the next academy player to get lost in the loan system. This will be the first of several loans before he's sold/released. Right now the mood is 'impress here and he will definitely get a chance'. By the 5th or 6th loan it'll be 'well he clearly was never that good'.

And in the meantime there will be other players hyped up as 'THE one to finally break through since John Terry'...and then they'll go through the same process.

The Chelsea way

Harry Kane had many loans including having to drop down to the Championship after flopping at Norwich now look at him. He could have given up and thought fuck this when Spurs signed Adebayor then Soldado instead of promoting him but he kept going and is now reaping the rewards.

Chalobah, McEachran, Kakuta etc got lost in the loan system because they didn't perform, these managers will only play them if they deserve to play.